Coronavirus General Discussion

[WiseOne]

No idea, Cortopassi. I think when a vaccine is come out, proves to be 100% effective, is widely embraced by everyone, and is distributed to every person in the US who wants it. That'll be a minimum of 2-3 years from now if it ever even happens. Well before then people will take matters into their own hands. If governors & mayors decide to yield, the lockdowns will just quietly go away. If they don't, people will find alternatives to city-sanctioned businesses and schools. e.g. popup roadside stands, informal group homeschools. Or more likely, people will just decide to pick up and move somewhere saner.

In response to that Ohio church service graph: Sure, that's how infectious diseases spread. You could draw a chart like that for any one of hundreds of viruses. The real question is, how many of those people were high risk? Probably very few. And they would have had the option to protect themselves, or not. The people coming to the church service knew what they were risking, and chose to come anyway. Remember that these people have been attending church services during cold/flu season their entire lives. Why is that a problem, as long as the health care system can handle the caseload? How is that the government's concern to begin with, even?

[Hal]

From Melbourne.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/0 ... his-story/

[PP67]

Cort, great charts! Could you provide a link? Thanks!

[Cortopassi]

Cort, great charts! Could you provide a link? Thanks!

There are a bunch of tick boxes down this page to change the data shown.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... deaths.htm

[pp4me]

I thought the article linked below was an interesting take on COVID containing this interesting fact of which I was not aware.

In 1968, the Hong Kong Flu killed approximately 4 million people globally. Not only did we not shut down our economy in the face of that staggering number, but the three-day Woodstock Rock Festival in upstate New York was held in the midst of the epidemic.

1968 was one year after I graduated from high school and the year I was inducted into the Navy. I remember Woodstock very well but have absolutely no recollection of the Hong Kong Flu.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... vid19.html

[vnatale]

I thought the article linked below was an interesting take on COVID containing this interesting fact of which I was not aware.

In 1968, the Hong Kong Flu killed approximately 4 million people globally. Not only did we not shut down our economy in the face of that staggering number, but the three-day Woodstock Rock Festival in upstate New York was held in the midst of the epidemic.

1968 was one year after I graduated from high school and the year I was inducted into the Navy. I remember Woodstock very well but have absolutely no recollection of the Hong Kong Flu.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... vid19.html

Woodstock was August, 1969 (the year I graduated). I also have zero memory of the Hong Kong Flu.

Vinny

[Xan]

I thought the article linked below was an interesting take on COVID containing this interesting fact of which I was not aware.

In 1968, the Hong Kong Flu killed approximately 4 million people globally. Not only did we not shut down our economy in the face of that staggering number, but the three-day Woodstock Rock Festival in upstate New York was held in the midst of the epidemic.

1968 was one year after I graduated from high school and the year I was inducted into the Navy. I remember Woodstock very well but have absolutely no recollection of the Hong Kong Flu.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... vid19.html

Woodstock was August, 1969 (the year I graduated). I also have zero memory of the Hong Kong Flu.

Vinny

I'm not sure what to make of this pandemic that nobody remembers. Was the media covering it up? Was it just not that serious? Is our media now sensationalizing the current pandemic?

[vnatale]

I thought the article linked below was an interesting take on COVID containing this interesting fact of which I was not aware.

In 1968, the Hong Kong Flu killed approximately 4 million people globally. Not only did we not shut down our economy in the face of that staggering number, but the three-day Woodstock Rock Festival in upstate New York was held in the midst of the epidemic.

1968 was one year after I graduated from high school and the year I was inducted into the Navy. I remember Woodstock very well but have absolutely no recollection of the Hong Kong Flu.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... vid19.html

Woodstock was August, 1969 (the year I graduated). I also have zero memory of the Hong Kong Flu.

Vinny

I'm not sure what to make of this pandemic that nobody remembers. Was the media covering it up? Was it just not that serious? Is our media now sensationalizing the current pandemic?

Some facts from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

I was 17, 18 years old at the time and quite aware of what was going on in the world around me as we received three newspapers a day, which I read. Again, have ZERO memory of it.

Vinny

Mortality
The United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that in total, the virus killed one million people worldwide[14] from its beginning in July 1968 until the outbreak faded during the winter of 1969–70.[15] The CDC estimated that about 34,000 to 100,000 people died in the U.S; most excess deaths were in those 65 and older.[16][17] However, fewer people died during this pandemic than in previous pandemics for several reasons:[14]

Some immunity against the N2 flu virus may have been retained in populations struck by the Asian Flu strains that had been circulating since 1957.
The pandemic did not gain momentum until near the winter school holidays, thus limiting the infection's spread.
Improved medical care gave vital support to the very ill.
The availability of antibiotics that were more effective against secondary bacterial infections.
For this pandemic, there were two geographically-distinct mortality patterns. In North America (the United States and Canada), the first pandemic season (1968/69) was more severe than the second (1969/70). In the "smoldering" pattern seen in Europe and Asia (United Kingdom, France, Japan, and Australia), the second pandemic season was two to five times more severe than the first.[18]

[pp4me]

I also have only the vaguest memory of the 2009 novel H1N1, aka swine flu pandemic.

Here's an article about that by Sharyl Attkisson. It contains this gem...

In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?

Do you remember the outcry when Trump suggested that we should stop testing for COVID?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/swine-flu- ... estimated/

[vnatale]

One result of the virus on the area in which I live:

Moving to the country: Franklin County sees uptick in homebuyers from cities

https://www.recorder.com/City-folks-mov ... y-35501300

"According to Sandvik, the exodus from cities has led to a competitive housing market. Sandvik and Gross said some clients have put in offers over asking prices, but are still at risk of being beat out by cash buyers from Boston or New York.

“Sometimes, houses are going for $30,000 over the asking price,” Sandvik said.

Fitzgerald said she is getting multiple offers on almost every property. She said the influx of people to the county sees both people looking for a second home or a primary home. Fitzgerald said she has especially noticed an increase of homebuyers interested in houses in a higher-end price range. She also noted that there has been an increased interest in purchasing undeveloped land, and a number of these buyers are from out of the area."


Vinny

[jalanlong]

So every April the 5th graders at my son’s elementary get to go on an overnight Science field trip. Sleep outside, study nature etc. This year is my son’s turn to go.

Except tonight we got the email that this outdoor camping trip in April (7 months away!) has been cancelled due to Covid. But not to worry, “virtual science experiences” are being rolled out to take its place. “Student safety and well-being remain our top priority.”

My email response to the district is to ask if student safety is a top priority, why in the hell did you ever let them go on an overnight campout in the first place? All those mosquitoes and ticks carrying lord knows what diseases. Best to keep them in front of computers going forward.

[Tortoise]

When I was a kid, all of the field trips at school required parents to sign a permission/waiver form acknowledging that the field trip entailed certain risks and that the parent accepted those risks and allowed their kid to go. I guess those were simpler times, when common sense still existed.

Why not let the more cautious parents simply choose not to send their kids on the field trip, and let the other parents send their kids?

[vnatale]

Masks Do Not Work. Period.


https://www.afa.net/the-stand/culture/2 ... w.facebook

[Libertarian666]

Masks Do Not Work. Period.


https://www.afa.net/the-stand/culture/2 ... w.facebook

Or maybe they do:

"Non-contact transmission was found in 66.7% (10/15) of exposed naïve hamsters. Surgical mask partition for challenged index or naïve hamsters significantly reduced transmission to 25% (6/24, P=0.018). Surgical mask partition for challenged index hamsters significantly reduced transmission to only 16.7% (2/12, P=0.019) of exposed naïve hamsters. Unlike the severe COVID-19 manifestations of challenged hamsters, infected naïve hamsters had lower clinical scores, milder histopathological changes, and lower viral nucleocapsid antigen expression in respiratory tract tissues."

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-ar ... 44/5848814

[Libertarian666]

One result of the virus on the area in which I live:

Moving to the country: Franklin County sees uptick in homebuyers from cities

https://www.recorder.com/City-folks-mov ... y-35501300

"According to Sandvik, the exodus from cities has led to a competitive housing market. Sandvik and Gross said some clients have put in offers over asking prices, but are still at risk of being beat out by cash buyers from Boston or New York.

“Sometimes, houses are going for $30,000 over the asking price,” Sandvik said.

Fitzgerald said she is getting multiple offers on almost every property. She said the influx of people to the county sees both people looking for a second home or a primary home. Fitzgerald said she has especially noticed an increase of homebuyers interested in houses in a higher-end price range. She also noted that there has been an increased interest in purchasing undeveloped land, and a number of these buyers are from out of the area."

Vinny

"Sandvik said she closed on a house in Shelburne Falls recently, which was sold to a couple from New York City. She said the husband of the couple who purchased the home is a poet, and the wife is also able to work remotely."

Who knew that poetry was so lucrative these days?

[Kriegsspiel]

The less-egotistical ones could probably do well writing song lyrics if they can't get a government grant.

[dualstow]

When I was a kid, all of the field trips at school required parents to sign a permission/waiver form acknowledging that the field trip entailed certain risks and that the parent accepted those risks and allowed their kid to go. I guess those were simpler times, when common sense still existed.

Why not let the more cautious parents simply choose not to send their kids on the field trip, and let the other parents send their kids?

Totally agree.

[Mark Leavy]

Only 3 more months until the coronavirus restrictions are all lifted.

[Tortoise]

Only 3 more months until the coronavirus restrictions are all lifted.

That’s the good news. The bad news is that they’ll be immediately replaced by Nationwide Riots 2: Electric Boogaloo.

[WiseOne]

Masks Do Not Work. Period.


https://www.afa.net/the-stand/culture/2 ... w.facebook

Or maybe they do:

"Non-contact transmission was found in 66.7% (10/15) of exposed naïve hamsters. Surgical mask partition for challenged index or naïve hamsters significantly reduced transmission to 25% (6/24, P=0.018). Surgical mask partition for challenged index hamsters significantly reduced transmission to only 16.7% (2/12, P=0.019) of exposed naïve hamsters. Unlike the severe COVID-19 manifestations of challenged hamsters, infected naïve hamsters had lower clinical scores, milder histopathological changes, and lower viral nucleocapsid antigen expression in respiratory tract tissues."

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-ar ... 44/5848814

Not quite....

There are several more variables apart from mask material that these studies are ignoring, but that controlled prospective trials will capture. Such as: does the person wear the mask correctly, does the mask fit the person correctly, what happens when the person takes the mask off and stores it before using it again, does the mask continue functioning at the same level day after day after being sweated into, jammed into pockets, dropped on the ground etc. And finally, is a person who is mildly sick more likely to venture out in public with the mask than without it?

Vinny thanks for posting that facebook article with the list of controlled trials - nice! Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to change anyone's mind. Mask wearing has become a polarized issue that is totally separated from science.

[Libertarian666]

Masks Do Not Work. Period.


https://www.afa.net/the-stand/culture/2 ... w.facebook

Or maybe they do:

"Non-contact transmission was found in 66.7% (10/15) of exposed naïve hamsters. Surgical mask partition for challenged index or naïve hamsters significantly reduced transmission to 25% (6/24, P=0.018). Surgical mask partition for challenged index hamsters significantly reduced transmission to only 16.7% (2/12, P=0.019) of exposed naïve hamsters. Unlike the severe COVID-19 manifestations of challenged hamsters, infected naïve hamsters had lower clinical scores, milder histopathological changes, and lower viral nucleocapsid antigen expression in respiratory tract tissues."

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-ar ... 44/5848814

Not quite....

There are several more variables apart from mask material that these studies are ignoring, but that controlled prospective trials will capture. Such as: does the person wear the mask correctly, does the mask fit the person correctly, what happens when the person takes the mask off and stores it before using it again, does the mask continue functioning at the same level day after day after being sweated into, jammed into pockets, dropped on the ground etc. And finally, is a person who is mildly sick more likely to venture out in public with the mask than without it?

Vinny thanks for posting that facebook article with the list of controlled trials - nice! Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to change anyone's mind. Mask wearing has become a polarized issue that is totally separated from science.

How about if we are separated from other people by partitions made from mask material? According to that study, that should help.

[WiseOne]

Hmm, what does surrounding each person in mask-like material sound like? Remember the term "cocooning" from the 1980s & 90s?

I guess we could call what's happening now "advanced, government-mandated cocooning". To do it temporarily in response to an acute crisis is one thing, but this is looking like it's going to be the new normal. There's no concrete or achievable endpoint and the vast majority of the population has bought into it without question. I wonder what human life is going to be like? As an introvert/homebody/crazy cat lady nearing retirement age this isn't going to bother me all that much, but what about the generation now in their teens and twenties? Where will be their sense of adventure? When they read books like John Steinbeck's "Travels with Charley", "Into the Wild", or Jack Kerouac, what will they make of them?

Every time I read an article or hear about young people violating the rules, I'm thrilled. Good for them. My niece for example is traveling around Italy right now and having a wonderful time. Good for her too.

[Cortopassi]

My niece for example is traveling around Italy right now and having a wonderful time. Good for her too.

How did she get in?

[WiseOne]

She lives in Canada.

[vnatale]

Hmm, what does surrounding each person in mask-like material sound like? Remember the term "cocooning" from the 1980s & 90s?

I guess we could call what's happening now "advanced, government-mandated cocooning". To do it temporarily in response to an acute crisis is one thing, but this is looking like it's going to be the new normal. There's no concrete or achievable endpoint and the vast majority of the population has bought into it without question. I wonder what human life is going to be like? As an introvert/homebody/crazy cat lady nearing retirement age this isn't going to bother me all that much, but what about the generation now in their teens and twenties? Where will be their sense of adventure? When they read books like John Steinbeck's "Travels with Charley", "Into the Wild", or Jack Kerouac, what will they make of them?

Every time I read an article or hear about young people violating the rules, I'm thrilled. Good for them. My niece for example is traveling around Italy right now and having a wonderful time. Good for her too.

Did what I heard today have validity?

The caller stated that when they were in the company's paint room they have to wear a respirator as masks will not do the job.

And, they have a nurse train them on how to properly wear the respirator.

Some citrus aerosol is sprayed and if the wear can smell it then the respirator is not being properly worn / fitted.

Is this size of this virus similar to the size of what is in the citrus odor?

Vinny