Coronavirus General Discussion

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:20 am

Smith1776 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 am
pugchief wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:50 pm
Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:55 pm
Gyms seem to be one of the most dangerous places in regard to the virus.
Do you have facts to back up that statement or is that just the result of it feeling creepy in there, like it should be a petri dish?
Our provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry made some remarks as such.
Mmmm, gotta call bullshit on that one. Every gym I've been to (except my HS gym) has spray bottles of bleach everyone uses to wipe down equipment before they use it. There's a lot of aerosolized bleach floating around in gyms. I figure the increased immune function as a result of exercise has to factor in as well. Cubicle farms seem much more hazardous, but it would be Wrongspeak for a public official to say that.
Basically saying that the only places more dangerous would be concerts and similar venues. In my ignorance of epidemiology I've decided to just go based off of her warnings. Still, I think going late at night when no one is there has got to be an improvement over going at peak hours.
Doesn't the "science" say that sunlight and alcohol inhibit it? Remember when the public health official in California said that the ocean was full of coronavirus and you couldn't pay her "a million dollars" to go to the beach ;D ;D ;D ;D
There's this very disturbing set of studies where about half the articles printed in Science and Nature magazines, the two leading publications, involved experiments that could not be repeated by anybody.
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Smith1776
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Smith1776 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:57 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:20 am

Mmmm, gotta call bullshit on that one. Every gym I've been to (except my HS gym) has spray bottles of bleach everyone uses to wipe down equipment before they use it. There's a lot of aerosolized bleach floating around in gyms. I figure the increased immune function as a result of exercise has to factor in as well. Cubicle farms seem much more hazardous, but it would be Wrongspeak for a public official to say that.
Doesn't the "science" say that sunlight and alcohol inhibit it? Remember when the public health official in California said that the ocean was full of coronavirus and you couldn't pay her "a million dollars" to go to the beach ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yeah, I'm gonna plead ignorance again on this one. Rather than coming to my own misguided conclusions I'm going to farm out my thinking on this one to the local health authority.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:08 am

Smith1776 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:57 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:20 am

Mmmm, gotta call bullshit on that one. Every gym I've been to (except my HS gym) has spray bottles of bleach everyone uses to wipe down equipment before they use it. There's a lot of aerosolized bleach floating around in gyms. I figure the increased immune function as a result of exercise has to factor in as well. Cubicle farms seem much more hazardous, but it would be Wrongspeak for a public official to say that.
Doesn't the "science" say that sunlight and alcohol inhibit it? Remember when the public health official in California said that the ocean was full of coronavirus and you couldn't pay her "a million dollars" to go to the beach ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yeah, I'm gonna plead ignorance again on this one. Rather than coming to my own misguided conclusions I'm going to farm out my thinking on this one to the local health authority.
Good plan. Cuz politicians always know what's best for us! ::)
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Smith1776 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:11 am

pugchief wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:08 am


Good plan. Cuz politicians always know what's best for us! ::)
In fairness, Bonnie Henry is a legit physician.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:15 am

Smith1776 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:11 am
pugchief wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:08 am


Good plan. Cuz politicians always know what's best for us! ::)
In fairness, Bonnie Henry is a legit physician.
If she was a legit physician, she would probably be treating patients or doing medical research instead of working for the government. :P
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:16 am

k
There's this very disturbing set of studies where about half the articles printed in Science and Nature magazines, the two leading publications, involved experiments that could not be repeated by anybody.
- Peter Thiel
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Smith1776 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:26 am

I wonder if this general difference in perspective towards health authorities is common for people chatting across the 49th parallel. It's interesting that I don't see that level of cynicism from anyone here locally. Then again, here in B.C (and Canada generally) our Coronavirus response seems to have been more effective and responsible on the part of the health authorities compared to the U.S. If I were a U.S. citizen I'd probably be much more skeptical too.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by technovelist » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:02 am

Smith1776 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:26 am
I wonder if this general difference in perspective towards health authorities is common for people chatting across the 49th parallel. It's interesting that I don't see that level of cynicism from anyone here locally. Then again, here in B.C (and Canada generally) our Coronavirus response seems to have been more effective and responsible on the part of the health authorities compared to the U.S. If I were a U.S. citizen I'd probably be much more skeptical too.
Canadians are known to be more respectful of authority than Americans.
You never even fought for your independence from Britain, remember? >:D
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Smith1776 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:08 am

technovelist wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:02 am
Canadians are known to be more respectful of authority than Americans.
You never even fought for your independence from Britain, remember? >:D
We only get angry when we're low on maple syrup.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:58 am

pug,

I know you don't necessarily like Priztker (gov of IL) but IL has some of the best declining numbers in the country. What do you attribute that to other than consistent messaging on wearing masks and distancing and being a bit slower opening up?

Seems he would deserve some credit here?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by sophie » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:57 am

Having been out and about a lot in NYC recently....

Mask wearing is consistent in "gentrified" (read: predominantly white/Asian, upper or upper-middle class) neighborhoods. If you are out without one, you get dirty looks and comments.

In low-income neighborhoods (vast majority black and Hispanic) few people wear masks. The ones that do are mostly wearing it under their noses or just hanging below their chins. When I see low income people on my street (e.g. delivery guys) they are almost never wearing masks. They wear them while working in the grocery because their employers make them do it, but in stores in minority neighborhoods you don't see workers wearing masks.

This might seem like it correlates with higher COVID infection rates in minority communities, but those kinds of observational studies are meaningless because of the large number of confounds (e.g. differences in risk factors). The important observation, to me, is that there are large pockets of non-mask wearing people in this city, and yet COVID new case rates have been vanishingly small for weeks now. Seems to me there's not really a lot of evidence for mask wearing as an effective prevention device - but neither is there evidence against except what I just noted.

I wear a mask if going into a store or other indoor public place. If outdoors I only put it on if I'm within 6 feet of someone - and mainly as a courtesy to them. This is consistent with the governor's order so I'm within the law here, and it seems a good compromise.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:12 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:58 am
pug,

I know you don't necessarily like Priztker (gov of IL) but IL has some of the best declining numbers in the country. What do you attribute that to other than consistent messaging on wearing masks and distancing and being a bit slower opening up?

Seems he would deserve some credit here?
Correct, I am not a fan.

Credit for what? Misleading the public by only publishing worthless data rather than important numbers? Locking down the entire state, when only the Chicago area had a problem? Choosing 'essential businesses' in a completely illogical way? Keeping the entirety of state, municipal and county employees paid for doing nothing for 4 months at the taxpayers expense? Refusing to relent on or renegotiate the pay increase for public union employees on July 1, even tho the state is broke? Refusing to reconsider the graduated income tax proposal on the Nov ballot, which will cause small businesses and ultimately the middle class to pay more taxes in the environment of mass unemployment? For under-staffing the unemployment office, so scared people can't talk to a live person?

I attribute the declining numbers to the fact that it took hold here first, just like in NYC, and is now burning out, while areas like AZ, FL, TX, etc that didn't get hit hard early are now having their turn. And even in those states, hospitalizations are declining.
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