Coronavirus General Discussion

[Xan]

Last night as I left my office I saw a new sign at the door. It was not Covid specific but said "STOP THE SPREAD OF GERMS" and gave you tips to do so. Then later in the night my son's remote learning instructions came in from the school district and they too had a PDF linked titled "Stopping the Spread of Germs."

I am no medical professional but aren't we going back in time with that way of thinking? I thought we had learned that exposure to a wide variety of germs (especially at a young age) helped to build strong, healthy immune systems. Am I wrong on that? Is this all being done now to protect those people who have weakened immune systems?

Apart from the issue of the medical wisdom, this is a truly frightening pivot that takes all this COVID craziness out of the "temporary emergency response" category and points us toward "perma-germophobe-safetyist-surveillance-police-state" territory.

[Kriegsspiel]

Last night as I left my office I saw a new sign at the door. It was not Covid specific but said "STOP THE SPREAD OF GERMS" and gave you tips to do so. Then later in the night my son's remote learning instructions came in from the school district and they too had a PDF linked titled "Stopping the Spread of Germs."

I am no medical professional but aren't we going back in time with that way of thinking? I thought we had learned that exposure to a wide variety of germs (especially at a young age) helped to build strong, healthy immune systems. Am I wrong on that? Is this all being done now to protect those people who have weakened immune systems?

Apart from the issue of the medical wisdom, this is a truly frightening pivot that takes all this COVID craziness out of the "temporary emergency response" category and points us toward "perma-germophobe-safetyist-surveillance-police-state" territory.

Yea, that's the issue most of us have had with this since the beginning. I don't like the government claiming the ability to abuse citizens due to a pandemic. The mayor of LA just threatened to shut off utilities to homes and businesses that host "egregious" gatherings.

The way I first heard it was from Tim Pool, who said, after he described antifa in Portland assaulting a woman at her house while the media called them peaceful protesters, that "the mayor of LA has just said he will shut off utilities to anyone who is discovered to be peacefully assembling." So I thought oh wow, he's actually going after the 'protesters' and the rioters, but damn that is harsh as fuck, like something Stalin would do. Then I found out it was actually just going to be used against people who were having parties like the ones Corto was talking about (or actually, maybe even a get together like Corto's), and that made more sense, seeing as it's 2020.

[pp4me]

Last night as I left my office I saw a new sign at the door. It was not Covid specific but said "STOP THE SPREAD OF GERMS" and gave you tips to do so. Then later in the night my son's remote learning instructions came in from the school district and they too had a PDF linked titled "Stopping the Spread of Germs."

I am no medical professional but aren't we going back in time with that way of thinking? I thought we had learned that exposure to a wide variety of germs (especially at a young age) helped to build strong, healthy immune systems. Am I wrong on that? Is this all being done now to protect those people who have weakened immune systems?

Apart from the issue of the medical wisdom, this is a truly frightening pivot that takes all this COVID craziness out of the "temporary emergency response" category and points us toward "perma-germophobe-safetyist-surveillance-police-state" territory.

That's basically the same thought that came to me when I saw this article in the news yesterday.

It's a warning from the CDC to be on the alert for "accute flaccid mylelitis or AFM for short" which generally strikes young people between August and November.

Still, the health organization suggested that social-distancing protocols amid the coronavirus might help delay, if not combat, its spread.

In other words, don't open the schools and keep the kids inside seems to be the message they are trying to send....

https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/cdc-expec ... -children/

[Lonestar]

I personally take the pandemic seriously, but has anyone noticed MSNBC has become a 24/7 perma-bear on the subject? No other topics discussed. Only Covid.

I routinely surf through the broadcasts for fun to see what the BS du jour is, and it's always the Covid bad news, mostly blamed on the actions of one person. I mean.........sure, things are bad out there, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel..........isn't there? Maybe it's just me.

At least through the Russia investigation and the impeachment we had some variety.

[pp4me]

I mean.........sure, things are bad out there, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel..........isn't there? Maybe it's just me.

See my chart from the Florida CDC a few posts back - pay particular attention to the death count rather than the case count. Dramatically decreasing.

[vnatale]

I personally take the pandemic seriously, but has anyone noticed MSNBC has become a 24/7 perma-bear on the subject? No other topics discussed. Only Covid.

I routinely surf through the broadcasts for fun to see what the BS du jour is, and it's always the Covid bad news, mostly blamed on the actions of one person. I mean.........sure, things are bad out there, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel..........isn't there? Maybe it's just me.

At least through the Russia investigation and the impeachment we had some variety.

I only put on MSNBC if there is nothing on:

1) Yankees TV station
2) Red Sox TV station
3) Celtics TV station
4) MLB Network
5) NBA TV
6) C-Span
7) C-Span 2

Therefore, I rarely have it on.

Vinny

[Xan]

I mean.........sure, things are bad out there, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel..........isn't there? Maybe it's just me.

See my chart from the Florida CDC a few posts back - pay particular attention to the death count rather than the case count. Dramatically decreasing.

I think this could really bite the perma-bears hard. I'm mostly talking about people trying to drum this thing up in order to get Trump out. If this thing just burns itself out BEFORE the election, which it looks like it is, then it could really backfire.

[jalanlong]

I mean.........sure, things are bad out there, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel..........isn't there? Maybe it's just me.

See my chart from the Florida CDC a few posts back - pay particular attention to the death count rather than the case count. Dramatically decreasing.

But how many people actually look at those charts vs read headlines? I went on Google and did a quick search for today's news under Florida Covid and I got these headlines back:

"Florida Coronavirus: State reports 7,650 new cases, percent positivity rate at 8%"

"Florida reports 120 new coronavirus deaths, hospitalizations approach 30K"

"Florida’s Elder-Care Facilities Buckle as Covid-19 Deaths Climb"

"Young Florida man's coronavirus-related heart failure forces doctors to act fast"

[Lonestar]

I personally take the pandemic seriously, but has anyone noticed MSNBC has become a 24/7 perma-bear on the subject? No other topics discussed. Only Covid.

I routinely surf through the broadcasts for fun to see what the BS du jour is, and it's always the Covid bad news, mostly blamed on the actions of one person. I mean.........sure, things are bad out there, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel..........isn't there? Maybe it's just me.

At least through the Russia investigation and the impeachment we had some variety.

I only put on MSNBC if there is nothing on:

1) Yankees TV station
2) Red Sox TV station
3) Celtics TV station
4) MLB Network
5) NBA TV
6) C-Span
7) C-Span 2

Therefore, I rarely have it on.

Vinny

I have to add a # 8. The infomercial channels!

Gotta admit, for me watching it is like looking at a bad car wreck. Just can't turn away. It's a study in propaganda techniques. I never mind hearing the other side of an argument, but I do have my limits in how it is presented. Surely, many feel the same about Fox.

And yes, it does seem more important to view the death rate vs. infection rate at this point. If the death rate decreases before Nov it may change everything.

[pp4me]

I mean.........sure, things are bad out there, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel..........isn't there? Maybe it's just me.

See my chart from the Florida CDC a few posts back - pay particular attention to the death count rather than the case count. Dramatically decreasing.

But how many people actually look at those charts vs read headlines? I went on Google and did a quick search for today's news under Florida Covid and I got these headlines back:

"Florida Coronavirus: State reports 7,650 new cases, percent positivity rate at 8%"

"Florida reports 120 new coronavirus deaths, hospitalizations approach 30K"

"Florida’s Elder-Care Facilities Buckle as Covid-19 Deaths Climb"

"Young Florida man's coronavirus-related heart failure forces doctors to act fast"

Exactly. That's why I posted the charts.

[dualstow]

I personally take the pandemic seriously, but has anyone noticed MSNBC has become a 24/7 perma-bear on the subject? No other topics discussed. Only Covid.

I'll take that over race at this point.

Here are some of my son’s remote learning rules.

if a teacher believes that the student who logged in
...

I read that four times and it doesn't make any sense. Maybe if you take out the "who" in the first line.

[Hal]

We made it into the Russian News!

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/497095-melbour ... -lockdown/

[Kriegsspiel]

We made it into the Russian News!

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/497095-melbour ... -lockdown/

Savage.

There is literally no reason for you to leave your home and if you were to leave your home and not be found there, you will have a very difficult time convincing Victoria police that you have a lawful reason.

You know, to look at this in a positive light, this whole thing has exposed every Secret Stalin on the planet. It's sad, but illuminating. I'm not going to hold it against anyone who overreacted back in Feb or March when we didn't really know what was up, but now I do.

[dualstow]

We made it into the Russian News!

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/497095-melbour ... -lockdown/

Darn, I thought you meant the forum.

[WiseOne]

The problem is that the goalposts for returning to school EVERYTHING are being moved again.

This is what I don't get. The curve was flattened. The death rate was minuscule compared to projections, especially if you remove the debacle of sending sick people back to nursing homes. WTF?

I've been thinking the same thing!

NYC and my institution are both continuing to act as if all of us are in mortal danger from stepping outside of our homes. The latest is the installation of police checkpoints at all major entrances into the city, with a required online questionnaire to fill out with personal details and stiff fines for refusing to comply. Why now, Bill the Great? And by the way, notice how "defunding the police" went right out the window. Plus the police don't have time to address actual crime, but they do have time to hang around bridges and tunnels and cause massive traffic jams?

I also got royally sick of my institution continuing with their internal lockdown, which is more severe than the state's and is also presented in a vague and confusing way that allows a lot of scope for interpretation. I suggested to my core lab members (numbering less than 10) that we get together in the office on Thursday afternoons - with masks on of course. First time was yesterday. One guy was nervous and stayed home, but everyone else was literally delirious with joy. We got so much done!! The lone holdout wrote to me this morning and said he was sorry he'd missed it and will join us next week. That's basically 100% of a medically savvy group unconcerned about the COVID bogeyman.

[Libertarian666]

The problem is that the goalposts for returning to school EVERYTHING are being moved again.

This is what I don't get. The curve was flattened. The death rate was minuscule compared to projections, especially if you remove the debacle of sending sick people back to nursing homes. WTF?

I've been thinking the same thing!

NYC and my institution are both continuing to act as if all of us are in mortal danger from stepping outside of our homes. The latest is the installation of police checkpoints at all major entrances into the city, with a required online questionnaire to fill out with personal details and stiff fines for refusing to comply. Why now, Bill the Great? And by the way, notice how "defunding the police" went right out the window. Plus the police don't have time to address actual crime, but they do have time to hang around bridges and tunnels and cause massive traffic jams?

I also got royally sick of my institution continuing with their internal lockdown, which is more severe than the state's and is also presented in a vague and confusing way that allows a lot of scope for interpretation. I suggested to my core lab members (numbering less than 10) that we get together in the office on Thursday afternoons - with masks on of course. First time was yesterday. One guy was nervous and stayed home, but everyone else was literally delirious with joy. We got so much done!! The lone holdout wrote to me this morning and said he was sorry he'd missed it and will join us next week. That's basically 100% of a medically savvy group unconcerned about the COVID bogeyman.

The checkpoints are for incoming traffic at the moment.
There's no guarantee they will stay that way.
Time to get out while you still can.

[dualstow]

This forum:

[Kriegsspiel]

This forum:

[vnatale]

Capture.JPG (107.48 KiB) Viewed 4984 times

[Kriegsspiel]

Yea yea, we know. Church is bad, riots are good. But hey, maybe some people don't know how infectious diseases spread?

[Mountaineer]

Yea yea, we know. Church is bad, riots are good. But hey, maybe some people don't know how infectious diseases spread?

Appears, based on the information in Vinny’s image, that a circular sanctuary is the culprit!

[vnatale]

Baker slows Mass. reopening process, tightening restrictions on gatherings and restaurants

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/08/07/ ... newsletter

[Cortopassi]

We've been told all along follow the science, follow the data. Here's a chart for Illinois excess deaths. Back to the normal range. But people are instead of saying we crushed this, are saying we need to keep on doing what we are doing to keep it low. So almost all schools are remote. Not even going to try. If this isn't enough to try, what will be? Sigh.

[Mountaineer]

We've been told all along follow the science, follow the data. Here's a chart for Illinois excess deaths. Back to the normal range. But people are instead of saying we crushed this, are saying we need to keep on doing what we are doing to keep it low. So almost all schools are remote. Not even going to try. If this isn't enough to try, what will be? Sigh.

Cortopassi, that was one of the most informative set of graphs I've seen lately. Thanks for posting.

.

[WiseOne]

No idea, Cortopassi. I think when a vaccine is come out, proves to be 100% effective, is widely embraced by everyone, and is distributed to every person in the US who wants it. That'll be a minimum of 2-3 years from now if it ever even happens. Well before then people will take matters into their own hands. If governors & mayors decide to yield, the lockdowns will just quietly go away. If they don't, people will find alternatives to city-sanctioned businesses and schools. e.g. popup roadside stands, informal group homeschools. Or more likely, people will just decide to pick up and move somewhere saner.

In response to that Ohio church service graph: Sure, that's how infectious diseases spread. You could draw a chart like that for any one of hundreds of viruses. The real question is, how many of those people were high risk? Probably very few. And they would have had the option to protect themselves, or not. The people coming to the church service knew what they were risking, and chose to come anyway. Remember that these people have been attending church services during cold/flu season their entire lives. Why is that a problem, as long as the health care system can handle the caseload? How is that the government's concern to begin with, even?