Coronavirus General Discussion

[WiseOne]

Can't speak for London, but NYC is doing several things:

- running buses more frequently so social distancing can be maintained on the bus.
- Increasing Citybike installations.
- Staggering work shifts e.g. instead of everyone starting 8am, stagger start times between 6 and 10 am.
- Limiting on-site employees and continuing mandatory telework

If I need transportation I've been biking, using Uber (drivers are masked) or taking buses. It works. The city should just shut down the subways. They're a de facto homeless encampment and otherwise unusable. I haven't bothered to even try it.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/25/passed-ou ... us-crisis/

[Tortoise]

How do they plan to deal with public transportation in crowded cities? NY subway, London tube, buses, etc?

Cities in Korea, Taiwan, etc. use crowded mass transit without spreading viruses like wildfire. Maybe we should ask them how they do it?

[Libertarian666]

Can't speak for London, but NYC is doing several things:

- running buses more frequently so social distancing can be maintained on the bus.
- Increasing Citybike installations.
- Staggering work shifts e.g. instead of everyone starting 8am, stagger start times between 6 and 10 am.
- Limiting on-site employees and continuing mandatory telework

If I need transportation I've been biking, using Uber (drivers are masked) or taking buses. It works. The city should just shut down the subways. They're a de facto homeless encampment and otherwise unusable. I haven't bothered to even try it.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/25/passed-ou ... us-crisis/

While I can't say I was ever a fan of the subways, they did make it possible, in combination with the LIRR, to live in an only moderately overpriced area of Long Island and commute to work in midtown.

Obviously they have gone seriously downhill (no pun intended) since the mid-90's.

[Smith1776]

Here in Vancouver, and B.C. largely, we are entering phase 2 of the our economic reopening. Retail shops, hair salons, and many businesses are allowed to reopen. Churches, gyms, and other places with generally large gatherings will be closed for a while longer it looks like.

The other day I put on an old jacket so I could go outside to take a walk. I thought to myself, "Hey this jacket is comfy! Why wasn't I wearing it more often?" Then I remembered. Before the pandemic my arms and shoulders were at a size where wearing the jacket was extremely uncomfortable. Now they've shrunk so that the jacket is comfortable.

At least I have another jacket to wear again.

[vnatale]

Capture.JPG (42.43 KiB) Viewed 5310 times

[pp4me]

This is the second article I've read about a study making this claim about marijuana. The first was in Israel where they were just talking about treating patients who had the virus. This one seems to be asserting a prophylactic effect.

https://www.complex.com/life/2020/05/ne ... f-covid-19

Unfortunately, if you have to buy your medicine in a state where it's illegal you have no idea if you are getting the strain that had this effect in the study. My daughter from Colorado tells me it's clearly marked in the legal stores but for those of us in other states it's just pot.

[jhogue]

+1

The same thing is happening in Minnesota, where more than 80% of patients who die reside in nursing homes. The state government is demanding that hospitals discharge COVD-19 positive patients to these nursing homes, even as hospital beds go empty and the world-famous Mayo Clinic is going broke. At what point do we demand the recall of the architects of this man-made disaster?

[Libertarian666]

CDC: if you're under 50, you're more likely to die from the flu than covid

and

As if that wasn’t enough, we are finally starting to understand why the death rate in New York City has been so high compared to everywhere else in the world. Because Governor Andrew Cuomo made the disastrous decision to send over 4300 nursing home patients back to nursing homes while they were infected with the coronavirus, creating an infection wildfire in the most vulnerable population.

So I guess that means he isn't going to rescue the Democrats from the Biden candidacy?

[Libertarian666]

CDC: if you're under 50, you're more likely to die from the flu than covid

and

As if that wasn’t enough, we are finally starting to understand why the death rate in New York City has been so high compared to everywhere else in the world. Because Governor Andrew Cuomo made the disastrous decision to send over 4300 nursing home patients back to nursing homes while they were infected with the coronavirus, creating an infection wildfire in the most vulnerable population.

So I guess that means he isn't going to rescue the Democrats from the Biden candidacy?

He (Cuomo) actually has an approval rating around 80% in both NY state and the US. This may change as this all gets blamed on him, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

So most people are woefully ignorant about how awful he is.
I guess the fact that he has been getting a daily tongue bath from the lamestream media would account for that.

[Kriegsspiel]

[WiseOne]

CDC: if you're under 50, you're more likely to die from the flu than covid

and

As if that wasn’t enough, we are finally starting to understand why the death rate in New York City has been so high compared to everywhere else in the world. Because Governor Andrew Cuomo made the disastrous decision to send over 4300 nursing home patients back to nursing homes while they were infected with the coronavirus, creating an infection wildfire in the most vulnerable population.

Maybe it was a secret plot to clear out nursing homes and thus reduce the state's Medicaid expenses?

Here's another reason that I secretly suspect is a big contributor: illegal immigrants and "chain-migration". Just one baby born to an illegal immigrant in the US, and a whole extended family is suddenly eligible to migrate here legally. Many of them come here because they have chronic conditions that are treated here for free, plus they are eligible for SSI, food stamps, subsidized housing etc. In their country of origin, they have to pay for care and there's no reward for being sick. This introduces a selection bias that creates a sicker/more vulnerable population here compared to the original population in the country of origin. Check out this map of COVID cases broken down by zip code:

https://flo.uri.sh/visualisation/1832440/embed

Notice that the most densely populated and most frequently traveled-through borough (Manhattan), also the trendy neighborhoods in Brooklyn like Park Slope, has the lightest caseload. So do predominantly Asian neighborhoods like Flushing. Make the whole city like these zip codes, and suddenly coronavirus wouldn't be such a big deal here.

[pp4me]

I have no idea what a "Certian Death" is but it sounds pretty bad.

Another comparison could be made to the troop ships heading for Europe in WW1. This might be a more apt comparison because a lot of those soldiers were carrying the Spanish Flu with them and would die from it before they ever reached the foxholes. Not to mention spreading it all over Europe.

No total lockdowns back then. Obviously war is essential business.

[dualstow]

I have no idea what a "Certian Death" is but it sounds pretty bad.

They are very powerful mints, those Certs.

[Smith1776]

21CB98A2-FF40-4184-A94F-9F0A0FE210FB.jpeg (118.33 KiB) Viewed 5241 times

[Xan]

"Scientists and Doctors" may (or may not be) right as far as the science and medicine, but they certainly have no special place at the policy-making table where laws are made, or at the kitchen table where personal decisions are made.

They have an input, sure, but any policy recommendations they make are far from infallible, in fact, their recommendations will only be from one perspective without counting the costs involved from any other side.

[Mark Leavy]

How many scientists make good CEO's, investors, entrepreneurs or poker players?
None.

Broad spectrum risk management is not in their repertoire.

[Smith1776]

You guys are going a bit further than my light-hearted intention with the meme. I'm mostly poking fun at the people on my social media feed that are convinced that 5G cell towers are spreading the virus. Your points are well taken and I agree with the general sentiment though.

[Mark Leavy]

You guys are going a bit further than my light-hearted intention with the meme. I'm mostly poking fun at the people on my social media feed that are convinced that 5G cell towers are spreading the virus. Your points are well taken and I agree with the general sentiment though.

All in good fun, Smith man. The meme is funny. I'm just venting at folks who raise "Science!" to me, while ignoring that that is sorta my thing...

[boglerdude]

How many scientists make good CEO's, investors, entrepreneurs or poker players?
None. Broad spectrum risk management is not in their repertoire.

Evidence? The only multi-millionaire I've met is a scientist

[Mark Leavy]

How many scientists make good CEO's, investors, entrepreneurs or poker players?
None. Broad spectrum risk management is not in their repertoire.

Evidence? The only multi-millionaire I've met is a scientist

Ask yourself. Did my statement sound like a peer-reviewed study or one man's provocative opinion?
Place your bets...

[Mountaineer]

https://www.aier.org/article/lockdown-s ... e-tragedy/

Sad, really sad. A couple of comments I read on the article pretty much sum up my view: If you define your purpose or derive your meaning by what you do rather than whose you are, life is tough.

The comments:
"My takeaway is that before the pandemic our society was apparently already running on fumes when it came to people having a sense of meaning and purpose, and the sudden shut-down either supplied it by giving people a mission not to infect people or took away whatever precarious sense of purpose people had. Those who had genuine meaning and purpose have not lost it or gained it due to the virus or the shutdown. But those who had a tenuous sense of purpose before now find even what purpose they had taken away. Or they have made the shutdown their purpose."


""Many people define who they are by what they do: "I'm a _________" Fill in the blank with a trade or profession.
It has been immensely cruel to repeatedly tell a large portion of the population: "You are non-essential"".

[Libertarian666]

https://www.aier.org/article/lockdown-s ... e-tragedy/

Sad, really sad. A couple of comments I read on the article pretty much sum up my view: If you define your purpose or derive your meaning by what you do rather than whose you are, life is tough.

The comments:
"My takeaway is that before the pandemic our society was apparently already running on fumes when it came to people having a sense of meaning and purpose, and the sudden shut-down either supplied it by giving people a mission not to infect people or took away whatever precarious sense of purpose people had. Those who had genuine meaning and purpose have not lost it or gained it due to the virus or the shutdown. But those who had a tenuous sense of purpose before now find even what purpose they had taken away. Or they have made the shutdown their purpose."


""Many people define who they are by what they do: "I'm a _________" Fill in the blank with a trade or profession.
It has been immensely cruel to repeatedly tell a large portion of the population: "You are non-essential"".

Unfortunately most people don't have much internal meaning and purpose, so they rely on external validation.
I doubt this is a new phenomenon, but it has been brought into stark relief by the pandemic and the governments' largely fascistic response thereto.

[WiseOne]

https://www.aier.org/article/lockdown-s ... e-tragedy/

Sad, really sad. A couple of comments I read on the article pretty much sum up my view: If you define your purpose or derive your meaning by what you do rather than whose you are, life is tough.

The comments:
"My takeaway is that before the pandemic our society was apparently already running on fumes when it came to people having a sense of meaning and purpose, and the sudden shut-down either supplied it by giving people a mission not to infect people or took away whatever precarious sense of purpose people had. Those who had genuine meaning and purpose have not lost it or gained it due to the virus or the shutdown. But those who had a tenuous sense of purpose before now find even what purpose they had taken away. Or they have made the shutdown their purpose."


""Many people define who they are by what they do: "I'm a _________" Fill in the blank with a trade or profession.
It has been immensely cruel to repeatedly tell a large portion of the population: "You are non-essential"".

Super interesting.

I'll go a step farther: many people rely on work to provide not only a sense of meaning to their lives, but also the majority of their social interactions and sense of community. I'm amazed at how some of my colleagues insist that they need the Friday afternoon "happy hour" where we get on zoom, make awkward corporate-style small talk and drink. I seem to be the only one who would prefer spending that time with actual friends and/or family.

If nothing else, this pandemic has given me total confidence that if I chose to retire, I wouldn't miss work in the slightest. To add a bit of a footnote to Mark's statement about scientists making lousy entrepreneurs, well, I sorta agree with that. My job is no longer science, it's running a small business: I have to keep funding flowing, hire/manage employees, and advertise my product by giving talks and writing reviews/chapters/commentaries/press releases. The two types of endeavors, science & business, are mutually exclusive. Naturally, the scientists who get the most attention are the ones who excel at business - and they are typically not good scientists.

[pp4me]

"Scientists and Doctors" may (or may not be) right as far as the science and medicine, but they certainly have no special place at the policy-making table where laws are made, or at the kitchen table where personal decisions are made.

They have an input, sure, but any policy recommendations they make are far from infallible, in fact, their recommendations will only be from one perspective without counting the costs involved from any other side.

When I hear people say we have to listen to the Scientists and Doctors I believe what they really mean is we have to listen to the government. There are plenty of scientist and doctors who disagree with Fauci and Birx on a number of matters but we aren't supposed to listen them - only those who are government approved.

[WiseOne]

"Scientists and Doctors" may (or may not be) right as far as the science and medicine, but they certainly have no special place at the policy-making table where laws are made, or at the kitchen table where personal decisions are made.

They have an input, sure, but any policy recommendations they make are far from infallible, in fact, their recommendations will only be from one perspective without counting the costs involved from any other side.

When I hear people say we have to listen to the Scientists and Doctors I believe what they really mean is we have to listen to the government. There are plenty of scientist and doctors who disagree with Fauci and Birx on a number of matters but we aren't supposed to listen them - only those who are government approved.

Agree.

Still thinking about the article that Mountaineer posted. I would venture to guess that years of quality life lost from the lockdown greatly exceeds that of coronavirus, given the difference in age & health status between the two affected populations. It is mind-boggling to me that the subject is still being studiously avoided by most of the mainstream press, except for a few WSJ articles.