Coronavirus General Discussion

[Tortoise]

I met up with my wife's family yesterday, and one of the guys is a radiology technician at a large hospital. He interacts with dozens of patients every day.

At one point, he asked me, "Can you guess how many times the hospital has tested me for Covid over the past year?"

"A lot?" I guessed.

He corrected me: "Zero. They haven't tested me once."

"That's surprising," I replied, "because don't they test every incoming patient for Covid?"

"Yes, they do," he confirmed.

"Presumably because they're financially incentivized, right? The hospital receives more government subsidy for each patient that tests positive for Covid?" I inquired.

He smiled. "Yes, that's exactly right."

"So why doesn't the hospital test all of their front-line workers like you for Covid on a regular basis?" I asked.

"Because if they did, a certain portion of the workers would test positive, and those workers would be sent home for a couple of weeks to isolate. During that time, those workers wouldn't be able to come to work. They determined that that would place too large of a financial burden on the hospital, so they don't do that. And it's not just my hospital; many other hospitals do the same thing."

Interesting, no?

[mathjak107]

My ex wife works for a large nyc hospital...she got covid there

[mathjak107]

She did , but has permanent lung damage..
I am hoping we don’t have permanent damage ...so far no running ability back yet

[SomeDude]

I met up with my wife's family yesterday, and one of the guys is a radiology technician at a large hospital. He interacts with dozens of patients every day.

At one point, he asked me, "Can you guess how many times the hospital has tested me for Covid over the past year?"

"A lot?" I guessed.

He corrected me: "Zero. They haven't tested me once."

"That's surprising," I replied, "because don't they test every incoming patient for Covid?"

"Yes, they do," he confirmed.

"Presumably because they're financially incentivized, right? The hospital receives more government subsidy for each patient that tests positive for Covid?" I inquired.

He smiled. "Yes, that's exactly right."

"So why doesn't the hospital test all of their front-line workers like you for Covid on a regular basis?" I asked.

"Because if they did, a certain portion of the workers would test positive, and those workers would be sent home for a couple of weeks to isolate. During that time, those workers wouldn't be able to come to work. They determined that that would place too large of a financial burden on the hospital, so they don't do that. And it's not just my hospital; many other hospitals do the same thing."

Interesting, no?

I spent 84 days in a NICU with my daughter from aug - nov last year. Not only were nurses NOT tested, neither were parents who were streaming in and out to visit over 100 kiddos daily. And we are talking infants, many under 4 and 3 lbs.

Zero covid. Zero. They didn't even bother to take temps because what a waste of time. Not a single time did we even have a temp taken in 150+ visits. They did initially only allow one parent in at a time for some bizarre reason unless the parents were saying a final goodbye . Other family and friends were denied entry which i can tell you was Hell for many families.

It was a full month before my wife and daughter and i could be together at the same time. All for something that there was zero evidence of (at least where we live).

[Mark Leavy]

It is not likely going to be the same with no mask as science has proven covid is droplet spread and masks reduce droplets ...until we have herd immunity and we have very little viral load being spewed

We have that study already.

The fact that people are pulling out the micrometers and arguing on nightly news as to whether Florida is doing better than New York or New York is doing better than Florida tells you everything you need to know. Virus gonna virus.

The AP has a pretty reasonable discussion of this - showing that different policies of masks and social distancing have had no correlation with state results.

Despite their differing approaches, California and Florida have experienced almost identical outcomes in COVID-19 case rates.

California and Florida both have a COVID-19 case rate of around 8,900 per 100,000 residents since the pandemic began, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And both rank in the middle among states for COVID-19 death rates — Florida was 27th as of Friday; California was 28th.

Connecticut and South Dakota are another example. Both rank among the 10 worst states for COVID-19 death rates. Yet Connecticut Gov. Ned Lamont, a Democrat, imposed numerous statewide restrictions over the past year after an early surge in deaths, while South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem, a Republican, issued no mandates as virus deaths soared in the fall.

[pp4me]

My guess is that the practice of public masking, defined as throwing one of those cheap cloth things on your face every time you go to a public place, has close to zero effect on the spread of the virus. What it does do is remind you every time you go out in public that there is a virus in the air and I think that has become the main reason for making people wear them.

[mathjak107]

Masks have been shown to cut viral loads that are spewed ....they reduce what you may get as well as the drops you spew.

How much viral load we get is one of the primary factors in how bad we get covid. Super spreaders tend to have a lot more virus material contained in their droplets as well. No question masks reduce what is expelled

[Tortoise]

I spent 84 days in a NICU with my daughter from aug - nov last year. Not only were nurses NOT tested, neither were parents who were streaming in and out to visit over 100 kiddos daily. And we are talking infants, many under 4 and 3 lbs.

Zero covid. Zero. They didn't even bother to take temps because what a waste of time. Not a single time did we even have a temp taken in 150+ visits. They did initially only allow one parent in at a time for some bizarre reason unless the parents were saying a final goodbye . Other family and friends were denied entry which i can tell you was Hell for many families.

It was a full month before my wife and daughter and i could be together at the same time. All for something that there was zero evidence of (at least where we live).

That must have been really frustrating.

When my wife gave birth to our daughter last July, fortunately it went well so we didn't have to deal with a NICU. But my wife and I were isolated to her room for her 2-day stay. We couldn't have any visitors and weren't allowed to leave the room for anything -- even the vending machine across the hall -- and we had to put masks on whenever a doctor, nurse, or other staff member entered our room (which was dozens of times a day).

They tested my wife for Covid when she was admitted, but they didn't test me -- even though I shared the room with her for the entire duration of her stay.

That policy didn't make any sense to me until I had the conversation with the radiology technician yesterday. When viewed from the perspective of financial incentive, the policy suddenly makes sense. They tested my wife -- and all other incoming patients -- because the hospital gets government subsidy for all Covid-positive patients. But the hospital doesn't get any government subsidy for Covid-positive spouses/partners or workers, so they don't bother testing them.

But obviously it's all about the science. Financial incentives don't matter.

[vnatale]

I spent 84 days in a NICU with my daughter from aug - nov last year. Not only were nurses NOT tested, neither were parents who were streaming in and out to visit over 100 kiddos daily. And we are talking infants, many under 4 and 3 lbs.

Zero covid. Zero. They didn't even bother to take temps because what a waste of time. Not a single time did we even have a temp taken in 150+ visits. They did initially only allow one parent in at a time for some bizarre reason unless the parents were saying a final goodbye . Other family and friends were denied entry which i can tell you was Hell for many families.

It was a full month before my wife and daughter and i could be together at the same time. All for something that there was zero evidence of (at least where we live).

That must have been really frustrating.

When my wife gave birth to our daughter last July, fortunately it went well so we didn't have to deal with a NICU. But my wife and I were isolated to her room for her 2-day stay. We couldn't have any visitors and weren't allowed to leave the room for anything -- even the vending machine across the hall -- and we had to put masks on whenever a doctor, nurse, or other staff member entered our room (which was dozens of times a day).

They tested my wife for Covid when she was admitted, but they didn't test me -- even though I shared the room with her for the entire duration of her stay.

That policy didn't make any sense to me until I had the conversation with the radiology technician yesterday. When viewed from the perspective of financial incentive, the policy suddenly makes sense. They tested my wife -- and all other incoming patients -- because the hospital gets government subsidy for all Covid-positive patients. But the hospital doesn't get any government subsidy for Covid-positive spouses/partners or workers, so they don't bother testing them.

But obviously it's all about the science. Financial incentives don't matter.

So...here and in another post you had in another topic..... you are clearly saying "Follow the money"?

[SomeDude]

If McDonalds was paid by the government every time they tested someone positive.......they would be testing in the drive through.

And those tests would definitely pick up a lot of false positives.

[dualstow]

I'll be flying between PA and FL soon and as far as I can tell from online searching, I neither have to be vaccinated nor tested. Is it possible I have that right?

I do plan to get vaccinated but I'm youngish and not an essential worker. Waiting until there's less of a line.

[Mark Leavy]

I'll be flying between PA and FL soon and as far as I can tell from online searching, I neither have to be vaccinated nor tested. Is it possible I have that right?

I do plan to get vaccinated but I'm youngish and not an essential worker. Waiting until there's less of a line.

That's correct. My gal has been flying from SFO to all over the country to meet up with me multiple times this year and she has never had to be vaccinated or tested. Strict masking, though, obviously.

New Orleans next month!

[dualstow]

Thanks, Mark!
New Orleans, cool. I need to take the missus there one day.

[jalanlong]

https://apnews.com/article/public-healt ... wad7qMR4tM

For me, this is the ultimate trump card in the argument about how hard to lock down and mask.

[Tortoise]

https://apnews.com/article/public-healt ... wad7qMR4tM

For me, this is the ultimate trump card in the argument about how hard to lock down and mask.

Even if a consensus is eventually reached that lockdowns aren't effective, we will never see a discussion in the mainstream media regarding whether lockdowns fundamentally violate the First Amendment.

[SomeDude]

https://apnews.com/article/public-healt ... wad7qMR4tM

For me, this is the ultimate trump card in the argument about how hard to lock down and mask.

All that means is FL would have had no "cases" if they went Kalifornia style.

I've lived in FL the whole time though and haven't heard of a single person getting sick let alone hospitalized.

[SomeDude]

https://apnews.com/article/public-healt ... wad7qMR4tM

For me, this is the ultimate trump card in the argument about how hard to lock down and mask.

Even if a consensus is eventually reached that lockdowns aren't effective, we will never see a discussion in the mainstream media regarding whether lockdowns fundamentally violate the First Amendment.

Discussion of any kind isn't permitted. Do branch covidians find that odd? Same as the fake mail in election of that feeble babbling fool Joe Biden.

[dualstow]

https://apnews.com/article/public-healt ... wad7qMR4tM

For me, this is the ultimate trump card in the argument about how hard to lock down and mask.

All that means is FL would have had no "cases" if they went Kalifornia style.

I've lived in FL the whole time though and haven't heard of a single person getting sick let alone hospitalized.

I don’t know anyone personally who died in a car accident in the past few years so i guess car accidents don’t exist and if they do, they aren’t deadly.

[vnatale]

https://apnews.com/article/public-healt ... wad7qMR4tM

For me, this is the ultimate trump card in the argument about how hard to lock down and mask.

All that means is FL would have had no "cases" if they went Kalifornia style.

I've lived in FL the whole time though and haven't heard of a single person getting sick let alone hospitalized.

I don’t know anyone personally who died in a car accident in the past few years so i guess car accidents don’t exist and if they do, they aren’t deadly.

Excellent, Dualstow!!!!

[mathjak107]

https://apnews.com/article/public-healt ... wad7qMR4tM

For me, this is the ultimate trump card in the argument about how hard to lock down and mask.

All that means is FL would have had no "cases" if they went Kalifornia style.

I've lived in FL the whole time though and haven't heard of a single person getting sick let alone hospitalized.

I don’t know anyone personally who died in a car accident in the past few years so i guess car accidents don’t exist and if they do, they aren’t deadly.

Exactly

[jalanlong]

https://apnews.com/article/public-healt ... wad7qMR4tM

For me, this is the ultimate trump card in the argument about how hard to lock down and mask.

All that means is FL would have had no "cases" if they went Kalifornia style.

I've lived in FL the whole time though and haven't heard of a single person getting sick let alone hospitalized.

I don’t know anyone personally who died in a car accident in the past few years so i guess car accidents don’t exist and if they do, they aren’t deadly.

Exactly

Except that car accidents don't cover the news and headlines 24/7 leading the average citizen to believe that it’s a plague wiping out civilization and we all need to hunker in the basement in perpetuity.

If you are going to shut down schools, businesses, gatherings and essentially tell people when and how they can lead their lives then yes the bar needs to be pretty damn high. Higher than just headlines about “cases.”

[mathjak107]

Except that car accidents don't cover the news and headlines 24/7 leading the average citizen to believe that it’s a plague wiping out civilization and we all need to hunker in the basement in perpetuity.

If you are going to shut down schools, businesses, gatherings and essentially tell people when and how they can lead their lives then yes the bar needs to be pretty damn high. Higher than just headlines about “cases.”

If car accidents killed 520k Americans and caused permanent lung damage to millions more, then yeah, you’d better believe we’d shut down roads and car dealerships and switch over to biking and mass transit. Which would do double benefit by helping the environment.

Did you not read Mathjak can’t even walk up a flight of stairs without going out of breath, months after “recovering” from Covid? There is no recovery for many people.

But muh haircuts! Surely styling your hair is more important than preserving life and health of others because muh freedoms and ‘Merica!

Actually. Made it to the fifth floor , but was running 3-4 miles up to the day I got covid , so still not back at all to where I was , neither is my wife .

Most people are not as active as my wife and I are when it comes to working out so they have no benchmark . Normal life seems fine for them except for tired , but when you were demanding of your body like we have been for 18 years you know what your capable off prior you can see things are way off from what they were .

Plus now I developed sleep apnea from a less efficient respiratory system ..

They got to the bottom of my not sleeping since covid ..... when my body starts to go into the deep sleep stages they found o2 levels at time would hit 80 ...they had me sleep with brain wave monitors and other sensors for two nights .

Now I am on a cpat machine ....been three days and sleep is improving with the machine

[dualstow]

I don’t know anyone personally who died in a car accident in the past few years so i guess car accidents don’t exist and if they do, they aren’t deadly.

Except that car accidents don't cover the news and headlines 24/7 leading the average citizen to believe that it’s a plague wiping out civilization and we all need to hunker in the basement in perpetuity.

If you are going to shut down schools, businesses, gatherings and essentially tell people when and how they can lead their lives then yes the bar needs to be pretty damn high. Higher than just headlines about “cases.”

I'm with you on reopening. I think that at this point, people should be allowed to take their own chances if they want to support restaurants, etc. Teachers are getting vaccinated, and even many high school students miss being taught in person.

Of course there are more than just headlines if one is willing to read beyond them, but this was not about sensationalism. This is about denying that covid is anything but a hoax if you don't personally know someone suffering from it.

A high bar, fine. Going by who you know personally- doesn't seem very logical.

[vnatale]

I don’t know anyone personally who died in a car accident in the past few years so i guess car accidents don’t exist and if they do, they aren’t deadly.

Except that car accidents don't cover the news and headlines 24/7 leading the average citizen to believe that it’s a plague wiping out civilization and we all need to hunker in the basement in perpetuity.

If you are going to shut down schools, businesses, gatherings and essentially tell people when and how they can lead their lives then yes the bar needs to be pretty damn high. Higher than just headlines about “cases.”

I'm with you on reopening. I think that at this point, people should be allowed to take their own chances if they want to support restaurants, etc. Teachers are getting vaccinated, and even many high school students miss being taught in person.

Of course there are more than just headlines if one is willing to read beyond them, but this was not about sensationalism. This is about denying that covid is anything but a hoax if you don't personally know someone suffering from it.

A high bar, fine. Going by who you know personally- doesn't seem very logical.

It's the difference between going by anecdotal evidence as opposed to large number statistical evidence.

[WiseOne]

Yep. Also that mask and no mask are basically the same.

Not quite MangoMan!

My hospital, Anthony Fauci, and noted bona fide public health authorities, consisting of journalists and governors with no medical credentials whatsoever, have been telling us for a year now that there is sound science saying that masking is 100% effective at blocking viral transmission. However, according to Fauci, double masking is 70% effective. (It was a press conference he gave...sorry no link.)

So logically, you should wear a single mask only. Double masking is clearly less safe! The science doesn't lie, right?

As for no mask vs mask....there is that Danish prospective study that the noted bona fide public health authorities really hate, because it indeed says there is no difference :-).