Coronavirus General Discussion

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pp4me
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:18 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:09 am
Hey, wasn't Covid supposed to start disappearing Nov 4th?

Yet another conspiracy.
Don't we have to wait and see how well Biden's plan works first?

Nixon had a plan to end the war in Vietnam but it took 5 years.
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vnatale
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:45 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:29 pm
doodle wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:57 am
I can tell you from first hand experience in rural montana that covid is sweeping through my town. Dozens of people I work with or aquaintances of those falling ill.
My boss is the biggest germaphobe I've ever met in my life. He's been so scared of Cooties-19 that he literally didn't leave his house for seven or eight months. Probably washed his hands 100 times a day and disinfected everything, too. Yet he got sick with flu/cold symptoms about two weeks ago and still sounds like shit during our remote meetings.

Not that enjoy when anyone gets sick, but his situation kind of made me chuckle. Even his extreme germaphobic precautions and eight-month quarantine in his own home didn't spare him. He still got slammed.
Since mid-March I've barely been off my property. Get off my property on the average of about once every three weeks. Have had little one-on-one contact with anyone. Average once a month. Have not disinfected anything. The only times my hands get washed is my daily washing dishes and daily taking a shower.

The main plus I've seen from all of this (to me) is that in the almost 8 months now I've not had any kind of sickness / cold.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:46 pm

pp4me wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:18 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:09 am
Hey, wasn't Covid supposed to start disappearing Nov 4th?

Yet another conspiracy.
Don't we have to wait and see how well Biden's plan works first?

Nixon had a plan to end the war in Vietnam but it took 5 years.
My Republican family have always believed this is all political to make things seems like they are out of control to hurt Trump's reelection changes. They feel it will die off if Biden wins.

I don't agree because #1) that does not explain Europe's shutdowns. That is not due to Trump and if they start shutting down next year there is no way Biden is not following their lead and #2) Covid was listed as the #1 issue by Democrats in the election so Biden cannot simply do nothing when he takes office.

I read that he has a task force working on unveiling a plan on day 1 and it is a "one voice" plan. To me that means it will be nationwide orders.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:28 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:46 pm
My Republican family have always believed this is all political to make things seems like they are out of control to hurt Trump's reelection changes. They feel it will die off if Biden wins.

I don't agree because #1) that does not explain Europe's shutdowns. That is not due to Trump and if they start shutting down next year there is no way Biden is not following their lead [...]
That's a really good point.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:38 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:36 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:46 pm
pp4me wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:18 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:09 am
Hey, wasn't Covid supposed to start disappearing Nov 4th?

Yet another conspiracy.
Don't we have to wait and see how well Biden's plan works first?

Nixon had a plan to end the war in Vietnam but it took 5 years.
My Republican family have always believed this is all political to make things seems like they are out of control to hurt Trump's reelection changes. They feel it will die off if Biden wins.

I don't agree because #1) that does not explain Europe's shutdowns. That is not due to Trump and if they start shutting down next year there is no way Biden is not following their lead and #2) Covid was listed as the #1 issue by Democrats in the election so Biden cannot simply do nothing when he takes office.

I read that he has a task force working on unveiling a plan on day 1 and it is a "one voice" plan. To me that means it will be nationwide orders.
Is that constitutional?
"Masking: Biden said he would go to every governor and ask them to impose a mask mandate. If governors refused, as they have in several states, Biden said he would turn to local officials. He also said he will mandate masks in all federal buildings and on all interstate transportation."

Biden says “The question is whether I would have the legal authority as president to sign an executive order,” he recently told reporters. “We think we do, but I can’t guarantee that yet.”
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:47 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:36 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:46 pm
pp4me wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:18 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:09 am
Hey, wasn't Covid supposed to start disappearing Nov 4th?

Yet another conspiracy.
Don't we have to wait and see how well Biden's plan works first?

Nixon had a plan to end the war in Vietnam but it took 5 years.
My Republican family have always believed this is all political to make things seems like they are out of control to hurt Trump's reelection changes. They feel it will die off if Biden wins.

I don't agree because #1) that does not explain Europe's shutdowns. That is not due to Trump and if they start shutting down next year there is no way Biden is not following their lead and #2) Covid was listed as the #1 issue by Democrats in the election so Biden cannot simply do nothing when he takes office.

I read that he has a task force working on unveiling a plan on day 1 and it is a "one voice" plan. To me that means it will be nationwide orders.
Is that constitutional?
Reminds me of a question I thought of today that I wanted to ask here.

After the Boston Marathon bombing of April 2013 the city of Boston declared a lockdown. No people were to leave their houses while the search was on for the second remaining brother.

As soon as it started I asked questions of how they everyone so meekly complied when there did not seem to be any law mandating they needed to do so. This was the city in our country where the Revolutionary War started. Plus, reasonable arguments were made that since we knew the remaining brother's identify and what he looked like wouldn't we want people flooding the streets to enhance the possibilities of locating him.

In all my searches of the archives on various topics I'm not remembering reading any discussion of that here. Was there? Did I read some and forget? Do you remember your response to that lockdown back then? It was a more severe lockdown than what has taken place anywhere in this country in response to the virus.

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:05 pm

Was that lockdown actually enforced, or did people comply because they all wanted to help catch the guy?

I also note that it was after the lockdown was lifted and somebody went out to check on his boat that they caught him.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:50 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:05 pm
Was that lockdown actually enforced, or did people comply because they all wanted to help catch the guy?

I also note that it was after the lockdown was lifted and somebody went out to check on his boat that they caught him.
I was under the understanding that was just a request and not an order. I also remember several commentators and Libertarians like Ron Paul questioning the reason for a military style takeover of the city when that was never done for mass murders on the loose before.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:58 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:05 pm
Was that lockdown actually enforced, or did people comply because they all wanted to help catch the guy?

I also note that it was after the lockdown was lifted and somebody went out to check on his boat that they caught him.
I don't think it was enforced because everyone voluntarily complied. And, who was everyone staying inside helping to catch him.

No, the lockdown was still going on when someone called in that there was something strange going on with his boat.

The Netflix motive on it was excellent. Made you hate both brothers.

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:59 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:50 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:05 pm
Was that lockdown actually enforced, or did people comply because they all wanted to help catch the guy?

I also note that it was after the lockdown was lifted and somebody went out to check on his boat that they caught him.
I was under the understanding that was just a request and not an order. I also remember several commentators and Libertarians like Ron Paul questioning the reason for a military style takeover of the city when that was never done for mass murders on the loose before.
Exactly!

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:01 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:59 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:50 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:05 pm
Was that lockdown actually enforced, or did people comply because they all wanted to help catch the guy?

I also note that it was after the lockdown was lifted and somebody went out to check on his boat that they caught him.
I was under the understanding that was just a request and not an order. I also remember several commentators and Libertarians like Ron Paul questioning the reason for a military style takeover of the city when that was never done for mass murders on the loose before.
Exactly!

Vinny
I do wonder what makes people innately think a certain way. My reaction when I very first heard about Boston citizens being told to stay inside was "how can you make innocent citizens just going about their business be confined to their homes?" Same with the virus. When I very first heard about shutdowns my immediate reaction was "how can you just order a generic private business to shut down when they have done nothing wrong?" But the average citizen just thinks "ok, whatever you say." What makes some people just comply and others have an immediate reaction of "hell no"?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:34 am

jalanlong wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:01 am
vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:59 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:50 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:05 pm
Was that lockdown actually enforced, or did people comply because they all wanted to help catch the guy?

I also note that it was after the lockdown was lifted and somebody went out to check on his boat that they caught him.
I was under the understanding that was just a request and not an order. I also remember several commentators and Libertarians like Ron Paul questioning the reason for a military style takeover of the city when that was never done for mass murders on the loose before.
Exactly!

Vinny
I do wonder what makes people innately think a certain way. My reaction when I very first heard about Boston citizens being told to stay inside was "how can you make innocent citizens just going about their business be confined to their homes?" Same with the virus. When I very first heard about shutdowns my immediate reaction was "how can you just order a generic private business to shut down when they have done nothing wrong?" But the average citizen just thinks "ok, whatever you say." What makes some people just comply and others have an immediate reaction of "hell no"?
"You can't fight City Hall"? Governments on all levels have tremendous power compared to unorganized, individual citizens? The norm is to obey government edicts?

Here is something published just three days ago which has much detail about that 2013 lockdown and relates it to our current lockdowns this year.

https://www.aier.org/article/the-2013-l ... in-boston/

The lockdowns were actually larger than Boston, including some of the surrounding towns.

Here is what was given out to one of those towns:

Due to an ongoing manhunt in the Boston area, state authorities have shut down the [Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority] and issued a shelter-in-place advisory for a number of surrounding towns. At the time, Somerville has NOT been included in the advisory, but we ask that Somerville residents observe the shelter-in-place advisory if they can. If possible, please stay home, keep doors locked, and do not open the door for anyone other than identified law enforcement officials. Please also limit travel as much as possible. State authorities do not perceive a threat to our community, and residents are not required to remain in their homes, but please use common sense and stay tuned to area news sources for updates. Please also be aware that residents in the cities of Boston, Watertown, Waltham, Newton, Belmont, Cambridge, Brookline, and Allston-Brighton have been advised to shelter-in-place. Businesses in these areas have also been advised to remain closed. Again, authorities consider the City of Somerville to be safe and NOT under any immediate threat.


Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:42 am

Interesting question from a scientist in the British Medical Journal:

I have suspected for a long time that we are the victims of mass panic. Two days ago, I read in a newspaper that the average age of those who died worldwide after coronavirus infection was 81 and that they also often had comorbidity.

What if the Chinese had not tested their patients for coronavirus or there had not been any test? Would we have carried on with our lives, without restrictions, not worrying about some deaths here and there among old people, which we see every winter? I think so.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:00 pm

:D :D :D Official Freedom Day :D :D :D

No travel restrictions within my state. Can now travel more than 25Km from home!

May be even able to travel interstate by Christmas
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:40 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:42 am
Interesting question from a scientist in the British Medical Journal:

I have suspected for a long time that we are the victims of mass panic. [...]
Yep. I’ve been saying that for months. It’s nice to see an increasing number of scientists in prominent journals slowly reaching the same conclusion. Better late than never.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:34 pm

Because I don't listen to local radio or watch local TV things like the below can go completely by me unless it is in my local newspaper (my only source for local news).

I had no idea effective Friday we had more restrictions in Massachusetts until I read my Saturday newspaper today. Surprised it was not page one news but, instead, was a short article on page five (I think).

Of course, it has little effect on my now established lifestyle which has me off my property once about once every three weeks.

Vinny

https://www.wwlp.com/news/health/corona ... g-process/

Massachusetts COVID-19: Revised stay-at-home advisory includes curfew
CORONAVIRUS LOCAL IMPACT

Early business closures, revised gatherings, mask orders announced to disrupt growth of COVID-19 cases


All orders and advisories will be effective Friday, November 6th at 12:01 AM.

New Orders & Advisories:

Stay At Home Advisory: The Administration issued a revised Stay At Home Advisory to ensure residents avoid unnecessary activities that can lead to increased COVID-19 transmission. The revised Stay At Home Advisory instructs residents to stay home between 10 PM and 5 AM. The Advisory allows for activities such as going to work, running critical errands to get groceries and address health needs, and taking a walk.

Click here to read the revised Stay At Home Advisory: www.mass.gov/stayhome.

Early Closure of Businesses and Activities: Governor Baker issued a new executive order that requires the early closure of certain businesses and activities each night at 9:30 PM. The 9:30 PM closure requirement is aligned with the Stay At Home Advisory and together the two new initiatives are designed to further limit activities that could lead to COVID-19 transmission.

Effective November 6, the following businesses and activities must close to the public each day between the hours of 9:30 PM and 5:00 AM.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:53 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:46 pm
I'm not sure why you're so proud to be a recluse, but good for you that you are.
In normal times, I'd be playing basketball twice a week from September to May. Playing in three different softball teams from May to October. All year round hearing tons of live music, including nearly 40 hours in Friday to Sunday festivals.

But this whole thing has showed me what an extreme super introvert I can be and be highly content with that lifestyle.

I love all those above things I'm not doing but not doing them has not caused me any kinds of anguish. Not doing them allows me to indulge in a tons of other one-person, introverted activities which I also love and which those outside the home activities get in the way of dong. Only so many hours in each day!

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:01 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:53 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:46 pm
I'm not sure why you're so proud to be a recluse, but good for you that you are.
In normal times, I'd be playing basketball twice a week from September to May. Playing in three different softball teams from May to October. All year round hearing tons of live music, including nearly 40 hours in Friday to Sunday festivals.

But this whole thing has showed me what an extreme super introvert I can be and be highly content with that lifestyle.

I love all those above things I'm not doing but not doing them has not caused me any kinds of anguish. Not doing them allows me to indulge in a tons of other one-person, introverted activities which I also love and which those outside the home activities get in the way of dong. Only so many hours in each day!

Vinny
Vinny, in all seriousness, good for you! I am somewhat like you and can relate.
Last edited by Mountaineer on Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:01 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:46 pm
[To Vinny:] I'm not sure why you're so proud to be a recluse, but good for you that you are.
People who are on the spectrum often think about issues in very concrete terms that relate directly to themselves rather than in more abstract terms that relate to other people.

I suspect my brother is on the spectrum, too (probably mild Asperger’s), and he does that all the time.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:09 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:01 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:46 pm
[To Vinny:] I'm not sure why you're so proud to be a recluse, but good for you that you are.
People who are on the spectrum often think about issues in very concrete terms that relate directly to themselves rather than in more abstract terms that relate to other people.

I suspect my brother is on the spectrum, too (probably mild Asperger’s), and he does that all the time.
I think it should have been clear that I am only speaking to the effect on myself and not at all implying that it is affecting everyone else the same way.

It's my personality that allows me to weather all this well. I fully recognize that for at least all the extroverts (75% of the population) and those far less introverted that this is far more difficult for them. Plus more difficult if their lifestyle has been one of interacting with a lot of people, enjoying that, and missing that. More difficult for those living with family who are adversely affected by all of this.

I consider it a blessing that I have so many interests that only need me so that when certain things are taken away from me I can still enjoy myself in their absence. Also, I accept life for its circumstances and don't lament for what used to be. I deal with life as it is currently presenting itself to me.

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:16 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:09 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:01 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:46 pm
[To Vinny:] I'm not sure why you're so proud to be a recluse, but good for you that you are.
People who are on the spectrum often think about issues in very concrete terms that relate directly to themselves rather than in more abstract terms that relate to other people.

I suspect my brother is on the spectrum, too (probably mild Asperger’s), and he does that all the time.
I think it should have been clear that I am only speaking to the effect on myself and not at all implying that it is affecting everyone else the same way.

It's my personality that allows me to weather all this well. I fully recognize that for at least all the extroverts (75% of the population) and those far less introverted that this is far more difficult for them. Plus more difficult if their lifestyle has been one of interacting with a lot of people, enjoying that, and missing that. More difficult for those living with family who are adversely affected by all of this.

I consider it a blessing that I have so many interests that only need me so that when certain things are taken away from me I can still enjoy myself in their absence. Also, I accept life for its circumstances and don't lament for what used to be. I deal with life as it is currently presenting itself to me.

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:19 pm

Another great Ivor Cummins video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuZ0WmC8uP0

In this one, he makes the case that the small slice of recent excess deaths all occurred at home, suggesting strongly that they are not COVID-related but rather are things like heart attacks and strokes that went untreated because of lockdowns.

Wondering when we're going to get hit with new lockdowns here. As a die-hard homebody lockdowns are like a much needed breather from the usual frenetic work schedule. But, I can't support something that I know is going to harm millions of people and likely kill thousands.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:18 am

The media hasn't allowed even a small slice of the truth about this to be aired. I am, at the moment, beginning the workup of a wrongful death case involving one of the many victims of this political stunt who were locked down and therefore unable to obtain monitoring and treatment for cancer. It was my friend, and I watched the whole fricking thing unfold from beginning to end.

They've counted every last sniffle in this county, but no one has shown the slightest interest in including my friend's death in their statistics.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:17 am

Maddy wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:18 am
I am, at the moment, beginning the workup of a wrongful death case involving one of the many victims of this political stunt who were locked down and therefore unable to obtain monitoring and treatment for cancer. It was my friend, and I watched the whole fricking thing unfold from beginning to end.
I remember you mentioned that a while back. I'm so sorry you had to go through that, Maddy.

I think we will all be curious to hear about what transpires with that wrongful death lawsuit. I'm not optimistic but it would be interesting to hear your concerns aired. How far are you willing to push that case? I could see it ending up at pretty high court levels if you keep appealing.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:35 am

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens ... n-doing-it

I am very confused. Most every major city already has a mask mandate and has for quite some time. At this point the only places that do not have one are very rural towns. I have not seen any widespread flaunting of the mask rules in my city at all. So if anything the recent rise in cases would suggest masks are not really effective, not that we need to "mask harder." What am I missing here? Or is this pure signaling with the appearance of just doing "something" to make people feel better?
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