Coronavirus General Discussion

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Cortopassi
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:28 pm

pp4me wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:23 pm
I've not suffered anything to be majorly pissed off about but if I was a business owner and the government declared my business to be non-essential and shut me down I'd be mightily pissed off. If I was a landlord and couldn't collect rent from my tenants I'd also be mightily pissed off.

And if I lived in Australia I'm sure I'd also be pissed off.
Agreed!

And I have none of those problems, and have had a stable, in the office job the whole time.

I am just tired of (the generally older white male (I am one)) who can't get past this (I am surrounded by some), this is the end of civilization, etc, etc while they come home, or are already working from home, or retired, with a high salary, saying woe is me, life sucks so bad, I gotta put a mask on to go to Trader Joe's...
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:08 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:54 am
The most important line, IMO:

is this getting you anywhere or anything other than worked up, pissed off and bitter?
No, it's not. You're right. But you also didn't respond to any of my points/questions.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:12 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:28 pm
pp4me wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:23 pm
I've not suffered anything to be majorly pissed off about but if I was a business owner and the government declared my business to be non-essential and shut me down I'd be mightily pissed off. If I was a landlord and couldn't collect rent from my tenants I'd also be mightily pissed off.

And if I lived in Australia I'm sure I'd also be pissed off.
Agreed!

And I have none of those problems, and have had a stable, in the office job the whole time.

I am just tired of (the generally older white male (I am one)) who can't get past this (I am surrounded by some), this is the end of civilization, etc, etc while they come home, or are already working from home, or retired, with a high salary, saying woe is me, life sucks so bad, I gotta put a mask on to go to Trader Joe's...
Not the point, but thanks for playing. You aren't pissed bc, as you said above, none of this really affects you. You still have a high paying job that never closed, and for some reason, aren't bothered by the increasing tyranny imposed upon you. Justified or not.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:58 pm

pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:50 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:22 am

1) Priztker (and EVERY other governor and most officials) have used the pandemic politically, some more some less. It is what it is.
And this is okay with you?!!
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:22 am


3) We will get back to not wearing masks.
Really? When? Not based on any science, that's for sure. Why aren't we there already? Many states aren't imposing mandates, why is IL?
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:22 am


I see either this mask wearing delta episode being the last, or very near the last, at least for Covid related stuff.
OMG, IDK which is worse, your statement I bolded or your statement I italicized. Do you realize what you're implying now, which you clearly didn't when you typed it?
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:22 am

But also be prepared for some segment of the population to continue wearing masks, or not going out to eat, or to bars, or whatever. Their choice.
The only thing in that entire post that made sense.
But jeez, it is only a stupid mask. They will go away.
But will they? Not according to your statement above.
I am happy to answer your questions:

1) If I say it is not? What is my recourse? Waiting for the next election cycle? Protesting in Springfield? It has not affected me to that extent. Have you written letters to the governor and/or senators expressing your concern about how the lockdowns were hurting people? I did.

3) Politics. Sure, he's playing some politics here. Could he pull the mandate off tomorrow? Yes. Will he? Who knows. Science is secondary here, granted.

4) Pug, what can I say? This is reality. Are you going to climb up on that hill and say you're never going to submit to a mask or lockdown again ever, ever, ever, even if the "next" one is proven to be 100x deadlier? Basically the world gets one shot to scare you and then fuck off for the rest of time?

5) Masks will go away. Not a doubt in my mind.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by SomeDude » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:20 pm

pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:50 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:22 am

But also be prepared for some segment of the population to continue wearing masks, or not going out to eat, or to bars, or whatever. Their choice.
The only thing in that entire post that made sense.
I hope this is true because it helps identify the whack jobs to stay away from.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by SomeDude » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:23 pm

pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:12 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:28 pm
pp4me wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:23 pm
I've not suffered anything to be majorly pissed off about but if I was a business owner and the government declared my business to be non-essential and shut me down I'd be mightily pissed off. If I was a landlord and couldn't collect rent from my tenants I'd also be mightily pissed off.

And if I lived in Australia I'm sure I'd also be pissed off.
Agreed!

And I have none of those problems, and have had a stable, in the office job the whole time.

I am just tired of (the generally older white male (I am one)) who can't get past this (I am surrounded by some), this is the end of civilization, etc, etc while they come home, or are already working from home, or retired, with a high salary, saying woe is me, life sucks so bad, I gotta put a mask on to go to Trader Joe's...
Not the point, but thanks for playing. You aren't pissed bc, as you said above, none of this really affects you. You still have a high paying job that never closed, and for some reason, aren't bothered by the increasing tyranny imposed upon you. Justified or not.
Libs don't care about things like freedom, and justice, and tyranny, and right vs. wrong, or their neighbor, or anyone else in general, or the future, or math, objective reality, cogent arguments, facts.............
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:37 pm

I realize again why I stay away from this forum for lengths of time.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:05 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:29 pm
pp4me wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:10 pm
I don't know if I would call it "repression" but IMO the airport security measures after 9-11 have in common with mask mandates that they are both primarily theatrical in nature without that much to do with real security/safety.

So with the mask mandates you now get a double dose of theater when you fly.

A 5 hour flight to Denver in May meant I had to have the mask on non-stop for about 8 hours, including wait time inside the airport. That was really hard because I've never had one on for more time than it took me to shop in the stores when they were mandated. We're flying to Maui at the end of the month and that's 10 hours on the plane and probably about 4 in the airport terminals so I'll be setting a new personal record for mask wearing.

Add the TSA stuff on top of it and flying is really getting unpleasant. For some reason I seem to get pulled over for extra screening every time. I'd quit doing it altogether but I feel like I'm in my peak travelling years right now and need to take advantage of it while I can.
In both cases my belief is that those in power are not doing so so as to exert their power but, instead, are doing so out of the fear that they never wanted to blamed for not doing enough.

It comes down to the saying..."We get the government we deserve."

Therefore if people were not going to critical when something goes wrong because the government did not take some measures (which are oftentimes overkill) then the government / people in power would not take those measures.

However, since they know they will be blamed if they had not taken those measures and something happens...their only choice is to take those measures.

It's for the same reason our country has wasted so much money on hardening our school for an event with an extremely low probability of happening.

Those education administrators really would like to be spending that money on something else, e.g., something that would have a direct impact on their students' educations but they know that if they do not implement all these costly - both in terms of time and $$$$$$ - measures and the one in a million event occurs...then all the parents will ask...."Well why had you not implemented all these measures?" and no doubt call for those in power's resignations.
I would agree 100%. My local school district spends an exorbitant amount of money on having a cleaning crew come in each night and deep clean the school. It was proven over a year ago that surface spread of Covid was very rare. However, one school employee told me that they cannot afford to have an outbreak of Covid cases at the school and for it to get out that they had no special cleaning procedures in place for the virus.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by whatchamacallit » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:22 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:37 pm
I realize again why I stay away from this forum for lengths of time.
I genuinely appreciate your input to the conversation.

Thanks for staying around.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Desert » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:31 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:37 pm
I realize again why I stay away from this forum for lengths of time.
There are several really smart and interesting people who post here, but the majority of post volume is sadly not from those folks. One has to wade through a huge amount of nonsense to find a few gems here and there. This forum is probably not worth spending time on, unless you're either masochistic or extreme right wing. I had hoped things may have improved in the post-Trump era, and that's why I returned, but it's worse than it's ever been.

The best option is probably for a few sane folks to start a forum elsewhere. There are some really decent, thoughtful people here, and it's a shame that the nonsense drowns them out.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:43 pm

Desert wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:31 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:37 pm
I realize again why I stay away from this forum for lengths of time.
There are several really smart and interesting people who post here, but the majority of post volume is sadly not from those folks. One has to wade through a huge amount of nonsense to find a few gems here and there. This forum is probably not worth spending time on, unless you're either masochistic or extreme right wing. I had hoped things may have improved in the post-Trump era, and that's why I returned, but it's worse than it's ever been.

The best option is probably for a few sane folks to start a forum elsewhere. There are some really decent, thoughtful people here, and it's a shame that the nonsense drowns them out.
I think the vast majority of the posters here are decent, thoughtful and smart people. However, we apparently disagree on what constitutes insanity.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by SomeDude » Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:28 pm

pp4me wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:57 am
Speaking of Conspiracy theories.....

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coron ... COVID-case
China PCR test orders soared before first confirmed COVID case
Report on government contracts show surges in Wuhan-area purchases from May 2019
Gee Whiz next you're going to tell us that some people clearly had advance knowledge of the Sept. 11 attacks before they happened?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/unusual ... d-1.397265

"On September 6-7, when there was no significant news or stock price movement involving United, the Chicago exchange handled 4,744 put options for UAL stock compared with just 396 call options - bets that the price will rise. On September 10, an uneventful day for American, the volume was 748 calls and 4,516 puts, based on a check of option trading records."

Pretty amazing that they found the terrorists passports or whatever in the rubble and knew by the end of the day that UBL did it and was in Afghanistan but somehow we still don't know who made all these massive "lucky" bets.

At this point if people think WuFlu wasn't planned by someone......well let's just say ignorance must really be bliss.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by whatchamacallit » Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:02 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:28 pm
pp4me wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:57 am
Speaking of Conspiracy theories.....

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coron ... COVID-case
China PCR test orders soared before first confirmed COVID case
Report on government contracts show surges in Wuhan-area purchases from May 2019
Gee Whiz next you're going to tell us that some people clearly had advance knowledge of the Sept. 11 attacks before they happened?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/unusual ... d-1.397265

"On September 6-7, when there was no significant news or stock price movement involving United, the Chicago exchange handled 4,744 put options for UAL stock compared with just 396 call options - bets that the price will rise. On September 10, an uneventful day for American, the volume was 748 calls and 4,516 puts, based on a check of option trading records."

Pretty amazing that they found the terrorists passports or whatever in the rubble and knew by the end of the day that UBL did it and was in Afghanistan but somehow we still don't know who made all these massive "lucky" bets.

At this point if people think WuFlu wasn't planned by someone......well let's just say ignorance must really be bliss.
I didn't remember that one but here is a follow up paper explaining findings further.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/50 ... b_contents
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:17 pm

Desert wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:31 pm
I had hoped things may have improved in the post-Trump era, and that's why I returned, but it's worse than it's ever been.
Yeah, I don't get it. Something broke somewhere along the way in the past number of years where online civility has gone down.

As for me, as I've mentioned many times, that's why I use my real name. With very few exceptions I will be able to stand by what I've written 10/20/30 years from now without wincing.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:09 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:23 pm
Libs don't care about things like freedom, and justice, and tyranny, and right vs. wrong, or their neighbor, or anyone else in general, or the future, or math, objective reality, cogent arguments, facts.............
I'm all for differing viewpoints, but when somebody can say something like this about how people "don't care about their neighbor" and in the very same sentence completely decry many of their neighbors (both here on this forum and in real life), I just don't get it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

This is chasing off Desert and Corto. I'd rather be on a forum with Desert and Corto than with SomeDude, and that's even though I really agree with SomeDude on most everything. So SomeDude can no longer post. Tomfoolery can no longer post. He thinks he's being playful but it's beyond tiresome and it boils down to constantly treating people he disagrees with like idiots.

KayFaybe is banned, but I think his raison d'etre is moot now that Tom won't be posting.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:52 am

Xan wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:09 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:23 pm
Libs don't care about things like freedom, and justice, and tyranny, and right vs. wrong, or their neighbor, or anyone else in general, or the future, or math, objective reality, cogent arguments, facts.............
I'm all for differing viewpoints, but when somebody can say something like this about how people "don't care about their neighbor" and in the very same sentence completely decry many of their neighbors (both here on this forum and in real life), I just don't get it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

This is chasing off Desert and Corto. I'd rather be on a forum with Desert and Corto than with SomeDude, and that's even though I really agree with SomeDude on most everything. So SomeDude can no longer post. Tomfoolery can no longer post. He thinks he's being playful but it's beyond tiresome and it boils down to constantly treating people he disagrees with like idiots.

KayFaybe is banned, but I think his raison d'etre is moot now that Tom won't be posting.
With all due respect, Xan, don't you think some kind of warning is in order?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kbg » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:11 am

Xan,

Thank you, long overdue.

Hopefully the board survives. It has turned from a board about the PP and investing to exactly what Desert mentioned.

Also, I don't think civility has declined amongst the long-term "regulars". I think these two showed up and ruined the board.

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by sophie » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:40 am

Xan I understand your reasoning here, however I'm not sure why it only applies to the conservative viewpoints on the forum.

There are people on the liberal side who have not been banned, and yet have the same negative effect. Any thought of doing something about that?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:57 am

Xan wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:09 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:23 pm
Libs don't care about things like freedom, and justice, and tyranny, and right vs. wrong, or their neighbor, or anyone else in general, or the future, or math, objective reality, cogent arguments, facts.............
I'm all for differing viewpoints, but when somebody can say something like this about how people "don't care about their neighbor" and in the very same sentence completely decry many of their neighbors (both here on this forum and in real life), I just don't get it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

This is chasing off Desert and Corto. I'd rather be on a forum with Desert and Corto than with SomeDude, and that's even though I really agree with SomeDude on most everything. So SomeDude can no longer post. Tomfoolery can no longer post. He thinks he's being playful but it's beyond tiresome and it boils down to constantly treating people he disagrees with like idiots.

KayFaybe is banned, but I think his raison d'etre is moot now that Tom won't be posting.
Yeah with all due respect if you think that their comments are incendiary then you have not been on Facebook and Twitter enough. At least here we can joke and laugh and I don't take any offense from anyone. This place is WAY more tolerant of opposing viewpoints than other places online and that is why I post here and not any any other social media forums. I would have to think twice about staying here if people are going to be banned for posting "tiresome" things. Plus they are posting in the misc political forums and you get what you pay for on those. Its not like they are invading the investing forums with it.
Last edited by jalanlong on Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:13 am

sophie wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:40 am
Xan I understand your reasoning here, however I'm not sure why it only applies to the conservative viewpoints on the forum.

There are people on the liberal side who have not been banned, and yet have the same negative effect. Any thought of doing something about that?
I can't think of anybody who has had the negative effect that SomeDude and Tomfoolery have had. They chased off Ad O which is a crying shame, maybe Corto and Desert too which is also awful, and who knows how many others are put off from participating by their toxicity.

It sounds like you have someone specific in mind? KayFabee might qualify and he in fact was banned.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:14 am

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:57 am
Yeah with all due respect if you think that there comments are incendiary then you have not been on Facebook and Twitter enough. At least here we can joke and laugh and I don't take any offense from anyone. This place is WAY more tolerant of opposing viewpoints than other places online and that is why I post here and not any any other social media forums. I would have to think twice about staying here if people are going to be banned for posting "tiresome" things. Plus they are posting in the misc political forums and you get what you pay for on those. Its not like they are invading the investing forums with it.
I think I've been on Twitter and Facebook just the right amount: zero. I agree with what you say about toleration of opposing viewpoints. It isn't the viewpoints that are the problem.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:17 am

pugchief wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:52 am
Xan wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:09 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:23 pm
Libs don't care about things like freedom, and justice, and tyranny, and right vs. wrong, or their neighbor, or anyone else in general, or the future, or math, objective reality, cogent arguments, facts.............
I'm all for differing viewpoints, but when somebody can say something like this about how people "don't care about their neighbor" and in the very same sentence completely decry many of their neighbors (both here on this forum and in real life), I just don't get it. Take the beam out of your own eye.

This is chasing off Desert and Corto. I'd rather be on a forum with Desert and Corto than with SomeDude, and that's even though I really agree with SomeDude on most everything. So SomeDude can no longer post. Tomfoolery can no longer post. He thinks he's being playful but it's beyond tiresome and it boils down to constantly treating people he disagrees with like idiots.

KayFaybe is banned, but I think his raison d'etre is moot now that Tom won't be posting.
With all due respect, Xan, don't you think some kind of warning is in order?
My first instinct to see more good posters leaving as a result of their presence was to shut the place down entirely as just not worth it. So let's try this. I'm much more concerned about being fair to the vast swathes of worthwhile participants than I am to the people who are causing the problem.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:28 am

Xan wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:13 am
sophie wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:40 am
Xan I understand your reasoning here, however I'm not sure why it only applies to the conservative viewpoints on the forum.

There are people on the liberal side who have not been banned, and yet have the same negative effect. Any thought of doing something about that?
I can't think of anybody who has had the negative effect that SomeDude and Tomfoolery have had. They chased off Ad O which is a crying shame, maybe Corto and Desert too which is also awful, and who knows how many others are put off from participating by their toxicity.

It sounds like you have someone specific in mind? KayFabee might qualify and he in fact was banned.
My reaction to this is that if they are put off by the political forums, then why can they not just ignore those? I completely understand if it was in the investing forums because that is invading the core part of the board. But for the misc forums I think that outside of direct insults people should just be adults and disregard what they do not find suits them. And I would not call anything on this board remotely toxic in comparison to other internet boards. It may be poor or tiresome attempts at humor in some cases but not toxic.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:59 am

sophie wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:40 am
Xan I understand your reasoning here, however I'm not sure why it only applies to the conservative viewpoints on the forum.

There are people on the liberal side who have not been banned, and yet have the same negative effect. Any thought of doing something about that?
Sophie, I have zero issue with conservative viewpoints. But some of the stuff that is spouted here just makes me continually wonder why I come back. such as SD's recent comment:

"Libs don't care about things like freedom, and justice, and tyranny, and right vs. wrong, or their neighbor, or anyone else in general, or the future, or math, objective reality, cogent arguments, facts............."

What kind of BS wide swath libs all suck comment is that, and how does that add to the conversation? Those are the kind of comments that get under my skin.

Pug, on the other hand, has a hard ass attitude on some things, but we can have a reasonable, but sometimes heated conversation. SD's comments, to me, generally have seemed instead to be thinking about what can I possibly write to tweak these people as much as possible vs. a good back and forth.

My two cents.
Last edited by Cortopassi on Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:00 am

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:28 am
Xan wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:13 am
sophie wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:40 am
Xan I understand your reasoning here, however I'm not sure why it only applies to the conservative viewpoints on the forum.

There are people on the liberal side who have not been banned, and yet have the same negative effect. Any thought of doing something about that?
I can't think of anybody who has had the negative effect that SomeDude and Tomfoolery have had. They chased off Ad O which is a crying shame, maybe Corto and Desert too which is also awful, and who knows how many others are put off from participating by their toxicity.

It sounds like you have someone specific in mind? KayFabee might qualify and he in fact was banned.
My reaction to this is that if they are put off by the political forums, then why can they not just ignore those? I completely understand if it was in the investing forums because that is invading the core part of the board. But for the misc forums I think that outside of direct insults people should just be adults and disregard what they do not find suits them. And I would not call anything on this board remotely toxic in comparison to other internet boards. It may be poor or tiresome attempts at humor in some cases but not toxic.
jalanlong, I am opted out of the political forum, but I still like following the Covid stuff.
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