Coronavirus General Discussion

[vnatale]

Was that lockdown actually enforced, or did people comply because they all wanted to help catch the guy?

I also note that it was after the lockdown was lifted and somebody went out to check on his boat that they caught him.

I was under the understanding that was just a request and not an order. I also remember several commentators and Libertarians like Ron Paul questioning the reason for a military style takeover of the city when that was never done for mass murders on the loose before.

Exactly!

Vinny

I do wonder what makes people innately think a certain way. My reaction when I very first heard about Boston citizens being told to stay inside was "how can you make innocent citizens just going about their business be confined to their homes?" Same with the virus. When I very first heard about shutdowns my immediate reaction was "how can you just order a generic private business to shut down when they have done nothing wrong?" But the average citizen just thinks "ok, whatever you say." What makes some people just comply and others have an immediate reaction of "hell no"?

"You can't fight City Hall"? Governments on all levels have tremendous power compared to unorganized, individual citizens? The norm is to obey government edicts?

Here is something published just three days ago which has much detail about that 2013 lockdown and relates it to our current lockdowns this year.

https://www.aier.org/article/the-2013-l ... in-boston/

The lockdowns were actually larger than Boston, including some of the surrounding towns.

Here is what was given out to one of those towns:

Due to an ongoing manhunt in the Boston area, state authorities have shut down the [Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority] and issued a shelter-in-place advisory for a number of surrounding towns. At the time, Somerville has NOT been included in the advisory, but we ask that Somerville residents observe the shelter-in-place advisory if they can. If possible, please stay home, keep doors locked, and do not open the door for anyone other than identified law enforcement officials. Please also limit travel as much as possible. State authorities do not perceive a threat to our community, and residents are not required to remain in their homes, but please use common sense and stay tuned to area news sources for updates. Please also be aware that residents in the cities of Boston, Watertown, Waltham, Newton, Belmont, Cambridge, Brookline, and Allston-Brighton have been advised to shelter-in-place. Businesses in these areas have also been advised to remain closed. Again, authorities consider the City of Somerville to be safe and NOT under any immediate threat.


Vinny

[jalanlong]

Interesting question from a scientist in the British Medical Journal:

I have suspected for a long time that we are the victims of mass panic. Two days ago, I read in a newspaper that the average age of those who died worldwide after coronavirus infection was 81 and that they also often had comorbidity.

What if the Chinese had not tested their patients for coronavirus or there had not been any test? Would we have carried on with our lives, without restrictions, not worrying about some deaths here and there among old people, which we see every winter? I think so.

[Hal]

Official Freedom Day

No travel restrictions within my state. Can now travel more than 25Km from home!

May be even able to travel interstate by Christmas

[Tortoise]

Interesting question from a scientist in the British Medical Journal:

I have suspected for a long time that we are the victims of mass panic. [...]

Yep. I’ve been saying that for months. It’s nice to see an increasing number of scientists in prominent journals slowly reaching the same conclusion. Better late than never.

[vnatale]

Because I don't listen to local radio or watch local TV things like the below can go completely by me unless it is in my local newspaper (my only source for local news).

I had no idea effective Friday we had more restrictions in Massachusetts until I read my Saturday newspaper today. Surprised it was not page one news but, instead, was a short article on page five (I think).

Of course, it has little effect on my now established lifestyle which has me off my property once about once every three weeks.

Vinny

https://www.wwlp.com/news/health/corona ... g-process/

Massachusetts COVID-19: Revised stay-at-home advisory includes curfew
CORONAVIRUS LOCAL IMPACT

Early business closures, revised gatherings, mask orders announced to disrupt growth of COVID-19 cases

All orders and advisories will be effective Friday, November 6th at 12:01 AM.

New Orders & Advisories:

Stay At Home Advisory: The Administration issued a revised Stay At Home Advisory to ensure residents avoid unnecessary activities that can lead to increased COVID-19 transmission. The revised Stay At Home Advisory instructs residents to stay home between 10 PM and 5 AM. The Advisory allows for activities such as going to work, running critical errands to get groceries and address health needs, and taking a walk.

Click here to read the revised Stay At Home Advisory: www.mass.gov/stayhome.

Early Closure of Businesses and Activities: Governor Baker issued a new executive order that requires the early closure of certain businesses and activities each night at 9:30 PM. The 9:30 PM closure requirement is aligned with the Stay At Home Advisory and together the two new initiatives are designed to further limit activities that could lead to COVID-19 transmission.

Effective November 6, the following businesses and activities must close to the public each day between the hours of 9:30 PM and 5:00 AM.

[vnatale]

I'm not sure why you're so proud to be a recluse, but good for you that you are.

In normal times, I'd be playing basketball twice a week from September to May. Playing in three different softball teams from May to October. All year round hearing tons of live music, including nearly 40 hours in Friday to Sunday festivals.

But this whole thing has showed me what an extreme super introvert I can be and be highly content with that lifestyle.

I love all those above things I'm not doing but not doing them has not caused me any kinds of anguish. Not doing them allows me to indulge in a tons of other one-person, introverted activities which I also love and which those outside the home activities get in the way of dong. Only so many hours in each day!

Vinny

[Mountaineer]

I'm not sure why you're so proud to be a recluse, but good for you that you are.

In normal times, I'd be playing basketball twice a week from September to May. Playing in three different softball teams from May to October. All year round hearing tons of live music, including nearly 40 hours in Friday to Sunday festivals.

But this whole thing has showed me what an extreme super introvert I can be and be highly content with that lifestyle.

I love all those above things I'm not doing but not doing them has not caused me any kinds of anguish. Not doing them allows me to indulge in a tons of other one-person, introverted activities which I also love and which those outside the home activities get in the way of dong. Only so many hours in each day!

Vinny

Vinny, in all seriousness, good for you! I am somewhat like you and can relate.

[Tortoise]

[To Vinny:] I'm not sure why you're so proud to be a recluse, but good for you that you are.

People who are on the spectrum often think about issues in very concrete terms that relate directly to themselves rather than in more abstract terms that relate to other people.

I suspect my brother is on the spectrum, too (probably mild Asperger’s), and he does that all the time.

[vnatale]

[To Vinny:] I'm not sure why you're so proud to be a recluse, but good for you that you are.

People who are on the spectrum often think about issues in very concrete terms that relate directly to themselves rather than in more abstract terms that relate to other people.

I suspect my brother is on the spectrum, too (probably mild Asperger’s), and he does that all the time.

I think it should have been clear that I am only speaking to the effect on myself and not at all implying that it is affecting everyone else the same way.

It's my personality that allows me to weather all this well. I fully recognize that for at least all the extroverts (75% of the population) and those far less introverted that this is far more difficult for them. Plus more difficult if their lifestyle has been one of interacting with a lot of people, enjoying that, and missing that. More difficult for those living with family who are adversely affected by all of this.

I consider it a blessing that I have so many interests that only need me so that when certain things are taken away from me I can still enjoy myself in their absence. Also, I accept life for its circumstances and don't lament for what used to be. I deal with life as it is currently presenting itself to me.

Vinny

[Mountaineer]

[To Vinny:] I'm not sure why you're so proud to be a recluse, but good for you that you are.

People who are on the spectrum often think about issues in very concrete terms that relate directly to themselves rather than in more abstract terms that relate to other people.

I suspect my brother is on the spectrum, too (probably mild Asperger’s), and he does that all the time.

I think it should have been clear that I am only speaking to the effect on myself and not at all implying that it is affecting everyone else the same way.

It's my personality that allows me to weather all this well. I fully recognize that for at least all the extroverts (75% of the population) and those far less introverted that this is far more difficult for them. Plus more difficult if their lifestyle has been one of interacting with a lot of people, enjoying that, and missing that. More difficult for those living with family who are adversely affected by all of this.

I consider it a blessing that I have so many interests that only need me so that when certain things are taken away from me I can still enjoy myself in their absence. Also, I accept life for its circumstances and don't lament for what used to be. I deal with life as it is currently presenting itself to me.

Vinny

[WiseOne]

Another great Ivor Cummins video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuZ0WmC8uP0

In this one, he makes the case that the small slice of recent excess deaths all occurred at home, suggesting strongly that they are not COVID-related but rather are things like heart attacks and strokes that went untreated because of lockdowns.

Wondering when we're going to get hit with new lockdowns here. As a die-hard homebody lockdowns are like a much needed breather from the usual frenetic work schedule. But, I can't support something that I know is going to harm millions of people and likely kill thousands.

[Maddy]

The media hasn't allowed even a small slice of the truth about this to be aired. I am, at the moment, beginning the workup of a wrongful death case involving one of the many victims of this political stunt who were locked down and therefore unable to obtain monitoring and treatment for cancer. It was my friend, and I watched the whole fricking thing unfold from beginning to end.

They've counted every last sniffle in this county, but no one has shown the slightest interest in including my friend's death in their statistics.

[WiseOne]

I am, at the moment, beginning the workup of a wrongful death case involving one of the many victims of this political stunt who were locked down and therefore unable to obtain monitoring and treatment for cancer. It was my friend, and I watched the whole fricking thing unfold from beginning to end.

I remember you mentioned that a while back. I'm so sorry you had to go through that, Maddy.

I think we will all be curious to hear about what transpires with that wrongful death lawsuit. I'm not optimistic but it would be interesting to hear your concerns aired. How far are you willing to push that case? I could see it ending up at pretty high court levels if you keep appealing.

[jalanlong]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens ... n-doing-it

I am very confused. Most every major city already has a mask mandate and has for quite some time. At this point the only places that do not have one are very rural towns. I have not seen any widespread flaunting of the mask rules in my city at all. So if anything the recent rise in cases would suggest masks are not really effective, not that we need to "mask harder." What am I missing here? Or is this pure signaling with the appearance of just doing "something" to make people feel better?

[Cortopassi]

Humans are amazing when they want to be, part one million:

Hopefully this can be rolled out faster than expected and we can return to something normal in the first half of 2021!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/heal ... e=Homepage

The drug maker Pfizer announced on Monday that an early analysis of its coronavirus vaccine trial suggested the vaccine was robustly effective in preventing Covid-19, a promising development as the world has waited anxiously for any positive news about a pandemic that has killed more than 1.2 million people.

Pfizer, which developed the vaccine with the German drugmaker BioNTech, released only sparse details from its clinical trial, based on the first formal review of the data by an outside panel of experts.

The company said that the analysis found that the vaccine was more than 90 percent effective in preventing the disease among trial volunteers who had no evidence of prior coronavirus infection. If the results hold up, that level of protection would put it on par with highly effective childhood vaccines for diseases such as measles. No serious safety concerns have been observed, the company said.

----------And for the conspiracy minded-----------

The news comes just days after Joseph R. Biden Jr. clinched a victory over President Trump in the presidential election.

[pp4me]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens ... n-doing-it

I am very confused. Most every major city already has a mask mandate and has for quite some time. At this point the only places that do not have one are very rural towns. I have not seen any widespread flaunting of the mask rules in my city at all. So if anything the recent rise in cases would suggest masks are not really effective, not that we need to "mask harder." What am I missing here? Or is this pure signaling with the appearance of just doing "something" to make people feel better?

I'll continue to wear a mask when I go to public places as long as our county's mandate is in effect. I will not wear one when I am simply outside the house working in the yard or riding my bike through the neighborhood. That seems to be what Biden has in mind though it's hard to figure out what he really intends to do since he has backtracked on so many things he's said.

If it comes to that it's time for civil disobedience IMHO.

[pp4me]

Humans are amazing when they want to be, part one million:

Hopefully this can be rolled out faster than expected and we can return to something normal in the first half of 2021!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/heal ... e=Homepage

The drug maker Pfizer announced on Monday that an early analysis of its coronavirus vaccine trial suggested the vaccine was robustly effective in preventing Covid-19, a promising development as the world has waited anxiously for any positive news about a pandemic that has killed more than 1.2 million people.

Pfizer, which developed the vaccine with the German drugmaker BioNTech, released only sparse details from its clinical trial, based on the first formal review of the data by an outside panel of experts.

The company said that the analysis found that the vaccine was more than 90 percent effective in preventing the disease among trial volunteers who had no evidence of prior coronavirus infection. If the results hold up, that level of protection would put it on par with highly effective childhood vaccines for diseases such as measles. No serious safety concerns have been observed, the company said.

----------And for the conspiracy minded-----------

The news comes just days after Joseph R. Biden Jr. clinched a victory over President Trump in the presidential election.

I'm guessing they decided to wait until after the election for financial reasons rather than political. Allowing it to be labeled as the "Trump Vaccine" would have been bad for business.

[Tortoise]

I'm guessing they decided to wait until after the election for financial reasons rather than political. Allowing it to be labeled as the "Trump Vaccine" would have been bad for business.

Last I checked, Trump is President until at least Jan 20 (and possibly four years beyond that, depending on the outcome of the legal battle), so it could still be labeled the "Trump Vaccine".

It's not like the MSM's coronation of Biden on Saturday gave Pfizer's scientists the innovative nudge they needed to finally identify the last piece of the biochemical puzzle unlocking the secret to developing their vaccine.

[jalanlong]

I'm guessing they decided to wait until after the election for financial reasons rather than political. Allowing it to be labeled as the "Trump Vaccine" would have been bad for business.

Last I checked, Trump is President until at least Jan 20 (and possibly four years beyond that, depending on the outcome of the legal battle), so it could still be labeled the "Trump Vaccine".

It's not like the MSM's coronation of Biden on Saturday gave Pfizer's scientists the innovative nudge they needed to finally identify the last piece of the biochemical puzzle unlocking the secret to developing their vaccine.

I have been waiting for over a year for an employee stock program that was closed in a merger with my old company to be approved for distribution by the IRS. This morning the funds finally hit my account. The MSM is right, my life has improved dramatically since Biden won the election! F*ckin Biden is a miracle worker!!!

[pp4me]

I'm guessing they decided to wait until after the election for financial reasons rather than political. Allowing it to be labeled as the "Trump Vaccine" would have been bad for business.

Last I checked, Trump is President until at least Jan 20 (and possibly four years beyond that, depending on the outcome of the legal battle), so it could still be labeled the "Trump Vaccine".

It's not like the MSM's coronation of Biden on Saturday gave Pfizer's scientists the innovative nudge they needed to finally identify the last piece of the biochemical puzzle unlocking the secret to developing their vaccine.

Yes, Cuomo is still saying it can't be trusted as long as Trump is president which Pfizer probably isn't too happy about. I suspect he'll change his tune as soon as Biden and his trusted team are able to take a look and give it their seal of approval. And figure out how to take credit for it.

[Cortopassi]

Pfizer did not take government funds and was not part of Warp Speed.

[flyingpylon]

Pfizer did not take government funds and was not part of Warp Speed.

As usual, it's not that straightforward:

Pfizer and BioNTech Announce an Agreement with U.S. Government for up to 600 Million Doses of mRNA-based Vaccine Candidate Against SARS-CoV-2 (July 22, 2020)

They didn't take R&D money, but they have a contract for the manufacturing, distribution and purchase of the drug as part of Operation Warp Speed. Does the R&D happen without the advance purchase agreement? Hard to say.

From the Operation Warp Speed Fact Sheet:

The federal government is making investments in the necessary manufacturing capacity at its own risk, giving firms confidence that they can invest aggressively in development and allowing faster distribution of an eventual vaccine.

[Cortopassi]

A little fun/normality injected here -- pandemic? What pandemic?

https://youtu.be/hVsffhJKvJA?t=40

After this, all the kids not only have to test before leaving at Thanksgiving, the result needs to come back negative, or ND won't let you leave.

Also, if you purposely don't get tested, you'll not be allowed to register for spring.

[Tortoise]

By "ND won't let you leave," I assume you mean they'd suspend or expel the student if they leave anyways? I don't think ND has the legal right to physically restrain any students.

[Cortopassi]

By "ND won't let you leave," I assume you mean they'd suspend or expel the student if they leave anyways? I don't think ND has the legal right to physically restrain any students.

Yeah, some sort of academic penalty.