Coronavirus General Discussion

[pp4me]

Researchers say the benefits of widespread mask use were recently seen in a Missouri hair salon, where two stylists directly served 139 clients in May before testing positive for Covid-19. According to a recent report published by the CDC, both wore either a double-layered cotton or surgical mask, and nearly all clients who were interviewed reported wearing masks the entire time.

After contact tracing and two weeks of follow-up, no Covid-19 symptoms were identified among the 139 clients or their secondary contacts, the report found. Of the 67 who were willing to be tested, all were negative for Covid-19.

If that's what they mean by "growing evidence" I'm not very impressed.

And what's this with all the testing about how far a cough will travel? If you have a cough shouldn't you be staying at home? In my own experience I don't recall anyone ever coughing when I went to the store. If they did I'm sure they would get lots of dirty looks. And is there a study that shows what percentage of people would venture out with a cough thinking that wearing a mask will prevent them from spreading the disease?

[WiseOne]

Thanks! The gauze mask is the equivalent of the knit scarves that all of us were wearing (per CDC instructions) back in March. And I bet a lot better than the masks I see located under noses and chins.

Great tip, WiseOne. I just added this to my Amazon cart.


meshmask.png

Ha! Doesn't look too comfortable in 100 degree heat, but that technically would meet the mask mandate since there is no mention of the material to be used.

Vinny - showing that a piece of material blocks droplets is a LONG LONG WAY from proving that they reduce viral transmission when used by the general public. This is about the weakest form of scientific evidence ever. For example - those same experiments show that once the cloth gets wet, it's no longer effective. What do you think happens to face masks when people are wearing them outside in hot weather? And that's just for starters. What happens after the mask has been used a bunch of times? What about the gaps on the side that occur with all cheap masks? And are droplets actually how this virus is transmitted? Cloth masks will do nothing to stop aerosols. They also won't stop either from getting into your eyes, or onto your hands and then to your face.

The hospital study is also incredibly misleading. Those staff members were wearing surgical masks AND N95 masks with face shields over top, gloves & gown. And were trained in how to take them off without contaminating themselves. To attribute the effectiveness to surgical masks alone is frankly disingenuous.

[Cortopassi]

Thanks! The gauze mask is the equivalent of the knit scarves that all of us were wearing (per CDC instructions) back in March. And I bet a lot better than the masks I see located under noses and chins.

Great tip, WiseOne. I just added this to my Amazon cart.


meshmask.png

Ha! Doesn't look too comfortable in 100 degree heat, but that technically would meet the mask mandate since there is no mention of the material to be used.

Vinny - showing that a piece of material blocks droplets is a LONG LONG WAY from proving that they reduce viral transmission when used by the general public. This is about the weakest form of scientific evidence ever. For example - those same experiments show that once the cloth gets wet, it's no longer effective. What do you think happens to face masks when people are wearing them outside in hot weather? And that's just for starters. What happens after the mask has been used a bunch of times? What about the gaps on the side that occur with all cheap masks? And are droplets actually how this virus is transmitted? Cloth masks will do nothing to stop aerosols. They also won't stop either from getting into your eyes, or onto your hands and then to your face.

The hospital study is also incredibly misleading. Those staff members were wearing surgical masks AND N95 masks with face shields over top, gloves & gown. And were trained in how to take them off without contaminating themselves. To attribute the effectiveness to surgical masks alone is frankly disingenuous.

WiseOne,

Imagine you are in a 10x10' room with a person who has the virus and is actively ill. You have a choice of them putting a mask on, you putting a mask on, neither putting a mask on, or both putting masks on. You will be in the same room for 10 minutes in one situation, and 2 hours in another.

*regular cloth masks, not N95

What do you do?

[Maddy]

The evidence that cloth masks do anything meaningful to prevent the transmission of viruses is simply not there. It's beyond amazing that so many otherwise intelligent people blindly rely on "the experts" whose political agendas, conflicts of interest, and established proclivity for flat-out fraud is by now beyond dispute. You want to wear a mask? Fine. I haven't worn one yet and don't intend to. It's a symbol of submission to the Marxist world order, which is something I'll resist to the bitter end.

[WiseOne]

Cortopassi, that scenario is more likely to happen with a mask mandate than without. The person who is actively ill should stay home, but they may well decide that since they have a mask on, it's ok to go out in public.

If someone near me indoors is coughing and sneezing into the air, I wouldn't hesitate to say something - and walk out of the store. Staying in the store and putting on a mask would be a lot less effective and NOT my first choice.

[Cortopassi]

WiseOne, I'll take that.

maddy, that's your right as well. I guess you won't be doing much shopping at all the big box stores that now require masks?

I certainly see these points -- for example I am staunchly opposed to the standard American diet and think it is killing us, yet it is supposedly based in science.

Can anyone explain what's caused Trump to change his tune on masks?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10903#p201109
babylonbee.com/news/genius-trump-puts-on-mask-causing-liberals-to-question-effectiveness-of-masks

[Mark Leavy]

Can anyone explain what's caused Trump to change his tune on masks?

I think Trump knows that if he starts supporting masks, the news will reflexively say that they are useless and dangerous. They won't be able to stop themselves.

[Maddy]

WiseOne, I'll take that.

maddy, that's your right as well. I guess you won't be doing much shopping at all the big box stores that now require masks?

I'm exempt, and not afraid to press the issue.

Mark, good hypothesis about Trump using reverse psychology. Up to now, his turnabout on masks had me rather baffled.

[WiseOne]

WiseOne, I'll take that.

maddy, that's your right as well. I guess you won't be doing much shopping at all the big box stores that now require masks?

I'm exempt.

If I may ask....how did you pull that off?

I just wear the mask in stores because it's not worth fighting city hall on it. I also go early in the morning or late in the evening, so that I'm in and out of there fast and don't need to stand on line.

[Cortopassi]

Can anyone explain what's caused Trump to change his tune on masks?

I think Trump knows that if he starts supporting masks, the news will reflexively say that they are useless and dangerous. They won't be able to stop themselves.

I'll take bets on that. It'll never happen. All that will be said is he finally figured it out and they hope that his base follows suit. No way will they minimize mask wearing because of this.

i am thinking adding the Babylonbee to the "What are your primary news sources?" thread is a sign of the times

[Cortopassi]

WiseOne, I'll take that.

maddy, that's your right as well. I guess you won't be doing much shopping at all the big box stores that now require masks?

I'm exempt, and not afraid to press the issue.

Mark, good hypothesis about Trump using reverse psychology. Up to now, his turnabout on masks had me rather baffled.

He knows that he can get the Marxist media to support whatever he wants them to, simply by supporting the opposite of that.
Here's what it looks like: https://youtu.be/cQ4qPuneQ1U

So he really wants all the fort names to change? Hard to keep track...

[vnatale]

WiseOne, I'll take that.

maddy, that's your right as well. I guess you won't be doing much shopping at all the big box stores that now require masks?

I certainly see these points -- for example I am staunchly opposed to the standard American diet and think it is killing us, yet it is supposedly based in science.

Can anyone explain what's caused Trump to change his tune on masks?

I don't think the SAD is based in science. I thought it was based upon lobbyists.

Vinny

[Maddy]

If I may ask....how did you pull that off?

I just wear the mask in stores because it's not worth fighting city hall on it. I also go early in the morning or late in the evening, so that I'm in and out of there fast and don't need to stand on line.

Well, for one, I read the governor's order. It laid out a number of exemptions, and I went to work doing what 30 years of legal work taught me to do. I figured out how those exemptions applied to me. I carry a copy of the governor's order delineating the exemptions (you'd be surprised how many store employees and managers have never read it) and a summary of the ADA and the parallel state statute laying out the penalties for noncompliance. They start at $75,000 for the first offense.

I have a number of friends who, by reason of panic attacks, tachycardia, asthma, migraines, moisture-induced acne, actinic keratoses, and plain ol' difficulty breathing have all successfully claimed medical exemptions at the front door. Under the ADA, a store is not permitted to demand documentation or to even ask what the nature of their medical condition is. Not that the Black Shirt monitoring the door at Walmart would have a clue what most of them are, anyway.

Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.

One of these days I'll probably get tired of going through all this sturm und drang, at which point I might try doing what the more creative shoppers at Walmart are doing: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-18- ... appen.html

[Hal]

Well, for one, I read the governor's order. It laid out a number of exemptions, and I went to work doing what 30 years of legal work taught me to do. I figured out how those exemptions applied to me. I carry a copy of the governor's order detailing the exemptions (you'd be surprised how many store employees and managers have never read it) and a summary of the ADA and the parallel state statute laying out the penalties for noncompliance. They start at $75,000 for the first offense.

I have a number of friends who, by reason of panic attacks, tachycardia, asthma, migraines, moisture-induced acne, actinic keratoses, and plain ol' difficulty breathing have all successfully claimed medical exemptions at the front door. Under the ADA, a store is not permitted to demand documentation or to even ask what the nature of their medical condition is. Not that the Black Shirt monitoring the door at Walmart would have a clue what most of them are, anyway.

Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.

One of these days I'll probably get tired of going through all this sturm und drang, at which point I might try doing what the more creative shoppers at Walmart are doing: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-18- ... appen.html

Thanks Maddy,
That link made my day

As of tomorrow it will be mandatory to wear a mask in Melbourne.
Perhaps I should follow the 1800's dress standard...

[Maddy]

If I may ask....how did you pull that off?

Goodness gracious, WiseOne, you're a freaking neurologist. Just hang a stethescope around your neck and spout out some five hundred dollar words at the door, and you should get in just fine.

[dualstow]

If I may ask....how did you pull that off?

Goodness gracious, WiseOne, you're a freaking neurologist. Just hang a stethescope around your neck and spout out some five hundred dollar words at the door, and you should get in just fine.

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Added:
And regarding your earlier post, Maddy, while I am pro-mask and like wearing a mask for many reasons, I am very impressed by your technique.

[doodle]

If I may ask....how did you pull that off?

I just wear the mask in stores because it's not worth fighting city hall on it. I also go early in the morning or late in the evening, so that I'm in and out of there fast and don't need to stand on line.

Well, for one, I read the governor's order. It laid out a number of exemptions, and I went to work doing what 30 years of legal work taught me to do. I figured out how those exemptions applied to me. I carry a copy of the governor's order delineating the exemptions (you'd be surprised how many store employees and managers have never read it) and a summary of the ADA and the parallel state statute laying out the penalties for noncompliance. They start at $75,000 for the first offense.

I have a number of friends who, by reason of panic attacks, tachycardia, asthma, migraines, moisture-induced acne, actinic keratoses, and plain ol' difficulty breathing have all successfully claimed medical exemptions at the front door. Under the ADA, a store is not permitted to demand documentation or to even ask what the nature of their medical condition is. Not that the Black Shirt monitoring the door at Walmart would have a clue what most of them are, anyway.

Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.

One of these days I'll probably get tired of going through all this sturm und drang, at which point I might try doing what the more creative shoppers at Walmart are doing: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-18- ... appen.html

Typical Karen

[Maddy]

If I may ask....how did you pull that off?

I just wear the mask in stores because it's not worth fighting city hall on it. I also go early in the morning or late in the evening, so that I'm in and out of there fast and don't need to stand on line.

Well, for one, I read the governor's order. It laid out a number of exemptions, and I went to work doing what 30 years of legal work taught me to do. I figured out how those exemptions applied to me. I carry a copy of the governor's order delineating the exemptions (you'd be surprised how many store employees and managers have never read it) and a summary of the ADA and the parallel state statute laying out the penalties for noncompliance. They start at $75,000 for the first offense.

I have a number of friends who, by reason of panic attacks, tachycardia, asthma, migraines, moisture-induced acne, actinic keratoses, and plain ol' difficulty breathing have all successfully claimed medical exemptions at the front door. Under the ADA, a store is not permitted to demand documentation or to even ask what the nature of their medical condition is. Not that the Black Shirt monitoring the door at Walmart would have a clue what most of them are, anyway.

Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.

One of these days I'll probably get tired of going through all this sturm und drang, at which point I might try doing what the more creative shoppers at Walmart are doing: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-18- ... appen.html

Typical Karen

Nah, screaming Karens don't typically get results. I do.

Read the link and laugh a little bit. It might do you good.

[doodle]

Natural news? Is that where you get your information?

[doodle]

Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.

This is typical Karen. You sound exhausting

[Maddy]

Doodle, I have no interest in sparring with you. Did you just come here to heckle me? Put me on ignore, if you need to.

[doodle]

Not heckling, just exercising my freedoms to comment on your behavior...if that offends you, so be it. I refrained from calling you a loser....as our president is apt to say about his opponents

[doodle]

I think I'm done here. Farewell, gyroscopicinvesting!

[Libertarian666]

Doodle, I have no interest in sparring with you. Did you just come here to heckle me? Put me on ignore, if you need to.

I put him on ignore a long time ago. I haven’t missed his contributions.

[dualstow]

I’m looking forward to the word karen being retired. Sometimes words come into existence because we feel we need them, but oftentimes the word takes control and we use it because it’s there. We start seeing things through the lens of language instead of (something closer to) objectivity. I don’t like it.