Coronavirus General Discussion

[vnatale]

So tell us what they said?

I'm still betting the farm on a national lockdown the instant Biden is sworn in. The media and those guys are simply preparing the ground for what's already been decided.

Since winter respiratory illness season normally starts abating end of February/early March, it will allow Biden to claim that the lockdown was responsible. And I bet these guys know that full well. It's all part of the game.

I had it on as background while I was working. During the times I need to concentrate on my work my brain shuts off all other inputs. Therefore, I did not actually hear all that much of it.

It is available on the C-Span web site for anyone who wants to hear it at any time.

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

It's all part of the game.

What's the game? I still haven't figured out who benefits.

[Kriegsspiel]

I don't know about Francis Collins, but the latest headline I saw about Fauci had him quoted as saying, "Do what you're told." link.

[boglerdude]

> I still haven't figured out who benefits

How much did the Fed print and who did they hand it to.
Who benefits from small business being outlawed.

[Cortopassi]

But this is happening worldwide?

I refuse to believe those huge businesses that benefit from this, like Amazon, are part of a grand game/conspiracy. At the same time that other super huge industries, like travel are getting crushed.

Too easy an answer for conspiracy minded people.

[boglerdude]

All the central banks are printing as fast as they can get away with. Brexit is Trump, promising to reduce immigration to boost wages. Hospitals have been getting overwhelmed for years by cold+flu. This is the year the media decided it'll be the only thing we hear about.

[Tortoise]

Big businesses don’t have to be in on a grand conspiracy to be in favor of temporary lockdowns that disproportionately hurt smaller businesses.

Things that disproportionately hurt the competition are good for a business’s bottom line.

[Cortopassi]

Big businesses don’t have to be in on a grand conspiracy to be in favor of temporary lockdowns that disproportionately hurt smaller businesses.

Things that disproportionately hurt the competition are good for a business’s bottom line.

While I see some businesses benefiting from the lockdowns, how about:

--Airlines
--Hotels
--Cruise industry
--Car industry (people don't have to drive to work)
--Oil/gas industry (ditto)
--Obviously restaurants, big chains and mom and pop chains
--Shopping centers, malls
--Commercial real estate
--Companies that supply the above industries

I'm guessing the above likely make 50%+ of all employment in the US? (guess)

Some in this list are small, some are big. They are all populated by employees, many of which can't make ends meet anymore and certainly aren't out having a grand time with their unemployment checks, if they are still getting them.

Of every non-work friend I have, I am the only one actually going into an office. Others have been told maybe the first of the year. Maybe June 1, 2021, and some companies have decided to never go back!

I see a few winners, the obvious are any online places, esp. Amazon.

But in the end, I see no benefit to crushing other businesses out of existence, because the people who aren't working anymore aren't buying your stuff now either.

[boglerdude]

The megacorp C-suites are getting bailouts. CEOs/politicians have enough money. Its about winning, even if that means bankrupting your customer.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1275804924752904193
https://www.europereloaded.com/the-last ... ial-class/

[Maddy]

I don't know about Francis Collins, but the latest headline I saw about Fauci had him quoted as saying, "Do what you're told." link.

The latest from Fauci is that even after a "vaccine" is available, you'll still need to wear a mask and adhere to social distancing.

Still think this is about a virus?

[Maddy]

Google "opportunity zones." These are economically devastated zones, carved out of virtually every county, where real estate developers and investors are being given mega tax benefits to buy up land and businesses. You'd be deaf, dumb and blind not to understand, by now, that the Grand Plan is all about centralization of resources, which of course is exactly what progressivism is about.

[boglerdude]

I was onboard with our shops on Main St getting wiped out and replaced with chipotle, if that meant no more bums. If they keep up with this lockdown stuff...Im not so sure.

[Kriegsspiel]

Big businesses don’t have to be in on a grand conspiracy to be in favor of temporary lockdowns that disproportionately hurt smaller businesses.

Things that disproportionately hurt the competition are good for a business’s bottom line.

While I see some businesses benefiting from the lockdowns, how about:

--Airlines
--Hotels
--Cruise industry
--Car industry (people don't have to drive to work)
--Oil/gas industry (ditto)
--Obviously restaurants, big chains and mom and pop chains
--Shopping centers, malls
--Commercial real estate
--Companies that supply the above industries

I'm guessing the above likely make 50%+ of all employment in the US? (guess)

Some in this list are small, some are big. They are all populated by employees, many of which can't make ends meet anymore and certainly aren't out having a grand time with their unemployment checks, if they are still getting them.

Of every non-work friend I have, I am the only one actually going into an office. Others have been told maybe the first of the year. Maybe June 1, 2021, and some companies have decided to never go back!

I see a few winners, the obvious are any online places, esp. Amazon.

But in the end, I see no benefit to crushing other businesses out of existence, because the people who aren't working anymore aren't buying your stuff now either.

The way I see it, the governments are winging it, operating on the idea that this is like a "free pass" for them because... how dare citizens/history judge them harshly for ignoring constitutional rules and cultural norms when dealing with a super deadly plague? There is no incentive for them open the Sweden playbook; if people get sick during a lockdown/mask mandate/etc, then nobody can say they didn't do everything they could. I suspect they'd order companies like Amazon to shut down, if they thought they could get away with it, but that may be a bridge too far. But if they called a Sweden and people get sick, our vindictive media will try to destroy them and prevent their re-election.

Same deal when they 'delegate power' to a public health apparatchik, multiplied by the apparatchik not wanting a bad mark on their employee review/resume saying they didn't do enough.

As far as the work from home thing goes, I personally have no problem with that at all. Well, except that I likely won't work for a corporation ever again, so I've missed the boat on it.

[Cortopassi]

Google "opportunity zones." These are economically devastated zones, carved out of virtually every county, where real estate developers and investors are being given mega tax benefits to buy up land and businesses. You'd be deaf, dumb and blind not to understand, by now, that the Grand Plan is all about centralization of resources, which of course is exactly what progressivism is about.

If giving wealthy people tax breaks to invest in blighted areas is a new way to make/shelter money, I don't have issues with that. We already give tax breaks to corps all the time to relocate to cities (Amazon warehouse locations for example).

I believe you are generally anti-government all around, so when I see that these zone programs were created by the Trump tax act in 2017, I assume that doesn't make a difference, i.e. republican vs. democrat.

[Cortopassi]

The megacorp C-suites are getting bailouts. CEOs/politicians have enough money. Its about winning, even if that means bankrupting your customer.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1275804924752904193
https://www.europereloaded.com/the-last ... ial-class/

Is this something new during Corona? I don't think so. Every downturn has has its bailouts. Look at all the sweet deals in 2008 when the rest of the country was getting foreclosed on.

[Cortopassi]

I don't know about Francis Collins, but the latest headline I saw about Fauci had him quoted as saying, "Do what you're told." link.

The latest from Fauci is that even after a "vaccine" is available, you'll still need to wear a mask and adhere to social distancing.

Still think this is about a virus?

Fauci has a bit of an authoritarian streak in him, I agree. I looked at the link and others and did not find anything about continuing the measures after a vaccine is widely available.

And I also agree to some extent with WiseOne and others, the virus continues to be top news every day. The hospitals are almost always "near" the breaking point. Even though we've had five cases at my work, they have all been mild. There's a sense (by me) that it is overblown, it's been latched onto as the story of the year and can't be let go.

I don't understand how, for example, a place like NY, where I assume people are very compliant with mask wearing, has these big surges? Did everyone just stop wearing masks? Everyone get fatigue at the same time? Do masks not really work? Is it getting confounded with the flu and news outlets/governments are not being open about that? These are the questions in my mind.

I don't know how bad flu years were covered in the past. I assume except for short periods of harping on getting your flu shot and the occasional numbers, it usually is a non-story.

Now with multiple vaccines looking good, I think everyone basically needs to resign themselves to the fact that the story and the measures being used are not going away to any extent any time until then.

[WiseOne]

It's all part of the game.

What's the game? I still haven't figured out who benefits.

Is that seriously a questions?

The Democrats, obviously. And I'm sure some of their biggest donors e.g. Silicon Valley firms.

[dualstow]

I was onboard with our shops on Main St getting wiped out and replaced with chipotle, if that meant no more bums. If they keep up with this lockdown stuff...Im not so sure.

Don't bums like chipotle?

[Cortopassi]

It's all part of the game.

What's the game? I still haven't figured out who benefits.

Is that seriously a questions?

The Democrats, obviously. And I'm sure some of their biggest donors e.g. Silicon Valley firms.

I must be dense, WiseOne. Seriously, I am not trying to jerk you around.

Let's take one example. JB Pritzker, governor of IL. I believe it has been stated one of the reasons he's been pushing the virus hard is to get a bailout. Assuming the senate stays republican, that doesn't happen, right?

I can nearly guarantee you that he will be a one term governor. The sense I get is that there will be so little support for him, probably on both sides, mainly due to the heavy handed action on the virus. If just the pissed off parents and restaurant owners go out and vote, it will be a blowout

Any online presence has generally benefited from the lockdowns, sure, I'll give you that one.

[Tortoise]

Here in CA, I predict that Emperor Newsom will be reelected despite his unconstitutional overreaches and suffocation of our state's economy (especially small businesses). A lot of CA residents think he's the worst, but the majority -- mostly Dems, obviously -- actually think he's doing the right thing.

Newsom's latest tyrannical overreach: He's considering a statewide curfew.

[Cortopassi]

It's all part of the game.

What's the game? I still haven't figured out who benefits.

Is that seriously a questions?

The Democrats, obviously. And I'm sure some of their biggest donors e.g. Silicon Valley firms.

I must be dense, WiseOne. Seriously, I am not trying to jerk you around.

Let's take one example. JB Pritzker, governor of IL. I believe it has been stated one of the reasons he's been pushing the virus hard is to get a bailout. Assuming the senate stays republican, that doesn't happen, right?

I can nearly guarantee you that he will be a one term governor. The sense I get is that there will be so little support for him, probably on both sides, mainly due to the heavy handed action on the virus. If just the pissed off parents and restaurant owners go out and vote, it will be a blowout

Any online presence has generally benefited from the lockdowns, sure, I'll give you that one.

You don't know how blue states work, do you? Whitmer in MI is worse and she was a serious contender for Biden's VP.

We had a Republican governor here just prior to Bubba JB (the first in ages) and he had lots of great ideas. Unfortunately, the Dem supermajority in Springfield thwarted him at every turn, so basically got nothing done, and thus he lost his reelection bid.

Your memory is short, pug!

Since 1977, republican, 30 years total, vs Democrat, 12 years total. Next you’ll tell me those long term republicans governors had no hand in our current pension crisis?

[WiseOne]

Here in CA, I predict that Emperor Newsom will be reelected despite his unconstitutional overreaches and suffocation of our state's economy (especially small businesses). A lot of CA residents think he's the worst, but the majority -- mostly Dems, obviously -- actually think he's doing the right thing.

Newsom's latest tyrannical overreach: He's considering a statewide curfew.

And that's the benefit to the Democrats, right there. They will make it look like they Did Something Good, and will of course claim that matters would be far worse if they hadn't done those Good Things. The press will then back them up to the hilt, and disparage the other side for Not Doing Those Good Things. Never mind how irrational they may actually be...like banning the sale of garden seeds, or imposing curfews.

For the life of me I can't understand what a curfew has to do with slowing COVID spread. Maybe it only spreads after 10 pm? Or maybe 10pm is Cuomo's bedtime and he wants to see his subjects all nicely tucked away at home before he hits the sack?

[jalanlong]

I don't know about Francis Collins, but the latest headline I saw about Fauci had him quoted as saying, "Do what you're told." link.

The latest from Fauci is that even after a "vaccine" is available, you'll still need to wear a mask and adhere to social distancing.

Still think this is about a virus?

Fauci has a bit of an authoritarian streak in him, I agree. I looked at the link and others and did not find anything about continuing the measures after a vaccine is widely available.

And I also agree to some extent with WiseOne and others, the virus continues to be top news every day. The hospitals are almost always "near" the breaking point. Even though we've had five cases at my work, they have all been mild. There's a sense (by me) that it is overblown, it's been latched onto as the story of the year and can't be let go.

I don't understand how, for example, a place like NY, where I assume people are very compliant with mask wearing, has these big surges? Did everyone just stop wearing masks? Everyone get fatigue at the same time? Do masks not really work? Is it getting confounded with the flu and news outlets/governments are not being open about that? These are the questions in my mind.

That is a question that never seems to be asked of either politicians like Biden or medical authorities like Fauci. If masks are so darn effective and every major city in this country has mask mandates, why are cases spiking? Why is California a hotspot when they were claiming to be the #1 most compliant state with mask wearing. What will a National mask mandate do for increasing cases in those states that already have mask mandates?

[Tortoise]

If masks are so darn effective and every major city in this country has mask mandates, why are cases spiking? Why is California a hotspot when they were claiming to be the #1 most compliant state with mask wearing. What will a National mask mandate do for increasing cases in those states that already have mask mandates?

No place ever quite has 100% mask compliance, so even if cases skyrocket, one can always claim that it would have skyrocketed less had there been 100% compliance.

Sort of like when we have big financial crashes even though the Fed has existed for ages. One can always claim the crashes would have been considerably worse without the Fed.

EDIT: Fixed my slaughtered first sentence.

[jalanlong]

If masks are so darn effective and every major city in this country has mask mandates, why are cases spiking? Why is California a hotspot when they were claiming to be the #1 most compliant state with mask wearing. What will a National mask mandate do for increasing cases in those states that already have mask mandates?

No place ever quite has 100% mask compliance, so no matter how much the cases skyrocket, one can always claim that it would have skyrocketed even more had there been 100% compliance.

Sort of like when we have big financial crashes even though the Fed has existed for ages. One can always claim the crashes would have been considerably worse without the Fed.

Still that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Fauci and other “experts” have claimed repeatedly that wearing a mask is the number one way to stop the virus. So even with less than 100% compliance,you certainly have an extremely higher rate of mask wearing now than you had in April or May when mandates weren't in effect in Texas or California. So why haven’t case numbers dropped in proportion to the increased mask usage?