Coronavirus General Discussion

[shekels]

Mandatory vaccinations in Australia

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... 67f22e41a3

Rethinking their statement.
Australian PM Backtracks on ‘Mandatory’ Coronavirus Vaccine Program.

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/0 ... e-program/

Separately, Australia has also signed a deal worth $18m with Becton Dickinson, an American pharmaceutical company, to supply 100 million needles and syringes.

[pp4me]

Separately, Australia has also signed a deal worth $18m with Becton Dickinson, an American pharmaceutical company, to supply 100 million needles and syringes.

Damn, BD was one of only two individual stocks I ever bought - on the recommendation of Jim Cramer. I think it was around $25 and now it's $266. Shoulda kept it.

[Tortoise]

Tennessee governor passes COVID-19 liability shield law.

This seems like a really good idea. I hope other states follow.

[Dieter]

Tennessee governor passes COVID-19 liability shield law.

This seems like a really good idea. I hope other states follow.

+1. I think the Feds should be pushing for all 50 states to do something similar.

It's not dangerous and people are overeacting, but if you do get it because of our policies, not our fault.

At least, how I read these things.

[Tortoise]

Tennessee governor passes COVID-19 liability shield law.

This seems like a really good idea. I hope other states follow.

+1. I think the Feds should be pushing for all 50 states to do something similar.

It's not dangerous and people are overeacting, but if you do get it because of our policies, not our fault.

At least, how I read these things.

Can I also blame a particular business's policies and sue them if I get the flu or a bad cold?

[Xan]

The only thing that scares me about these liability protection laws is that it sets the precedent that without such laws, there WOULD be liability. There is not right to not get sick and there shouldn't be.

My argument sounds a lot like the argument against the Bill of Rights back in the day: that argument was that such a thing was not needed, because a government elected by the people would never try to oppress them in those ways, and that enumerating some things that the government can't do makes it sound like they otherwise could do those things. Turns out we very much needed the Bill of Rights, so maybe we need these liability laws too.

[Dieter]

Tennessee governor passes COVID-19 liability shield law.

This seems like a really good idea. I hope other states follow.

+1. I think the Feds should be pushing for all 50 states to do something similar.

It's not dangerous and people are overeacting, but if you do get it because of our policies, not our fault.

At least, how I read these things.

No. It's more like it's impossible with something so contagious to be responsible even if proper precautions are taken.

My concern --

"Democratic lawmakers who opposed the bill said its extensive legal hurdles would shield even businesses that operate recklessly from being held liable for the sickness or death of customers or employees.

“If this becomes law, there is virtually no circumstance in which a person can bring a successful Covid-based lawsuit no matter how irresponsible the person who infected them was, because no doctor will ever be able to state with certainty that a defendant’s actions caused plaintiff’s injuries,” state Sen. Sara Kyle (D) said during Senate floor debate on Wednesday.

“The bill will embolden people who have not been taking this pandemic seriously to do even less. It will increase the spread of Covid at a time when we need to be doing more to stop it,” Kyle said.
"
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-lab ... o-governor

But then, I'm one of those who thinks health care and sick leave should be expanded so folks didn't have to go to work sick if they want to eat or pay rent.

[Libertarian666]

The only thing that scares me about these liability protection laws is that it sets the precedent that without such laws, there WOULD be liability. There is not right to not get sick and there shouldn't be.

My argument sounds a lot like the argument against the Bill of Rights back in the day: that argument was that such a thing was not needed, because a government elected by the people would never try to oppress them in those ways, and that enumerating some things that the government can't do makes it sound like they otherwise could do those things. Turns out we very much needed the Bill of Rights, so maybe we need these liability laws too.

Exactly. That's also why we needed the "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act" (https://infogalactic.com/info/Protectio ... n_Arms_Act), to prevent people from being able to sue those manufacturers when their products work as intended. Of course that shouldn't have been necessary, but it was.

[WiseOne]

Slight change of subject. Well, two changes.

First up is another contribution to the Great Mask Debate. This is a video made by an OSHA specialist explaining about how mask laws effectively violate OSHA regulations. It's long, so here's the tl;dr: the reason that you can wear a surgical mask comfortably for long periods in an operating room is that extra oxygen is provided in the room to counter the reduction in O2 & increase in CO2 caused by the mask. Without this extra O2 support, you get headaches, nausea, fatigue, and general cardiopulmonary stress that can induce heart attacks in vulnerable people.

She does say one thing that's incorrect: Coronavirus particles are indeed 0.125 microns, but they are generally attached to stuff that's larger, around 3 microns. An N95 mask will stop these particles as it is effective down to 0.3 microns, but only if properly fitted and worn correctly. Surgical masks can filter in the range of 0.3 - 10 microns, so it will at best reduce the viral load - provided it is worn correctly and replaced when it gets wet or dirty. Anything else will generally not accomplish anything.

It's quite a long rant, but the core of the info is between 2 and 23 minutes.

https://youtu.be/8pr7nirqOzA

Next up is a shorter video by Ivor Cummins, the biomedical engineer I posted about previously who has been studying COVID data. He calls what's happening now a "casedemic" rather than a true epidemic, and shows parallels to the swine flu scare of 2008-2009. Very nicely explained in the video.

https://youtu.be/FU3OibcindQ

Enjoy!!

[pp4me]

I was watching this YouTube yesterday called "5 Bad Habits that Damage Your Brain" and it occurred to me that if sleeping with your head under the cover for 8 hours every night could have this effect why wouldn't wearing a mask all day do the same thing?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS1BTPIbXso&t=73s

[Kriegsspiel]

We were joking about churches declaring themselves protests in order to open, but those gym owners that Tim Pool lives near are actually doing it A Republican state senator has designated their gym one of his political locations, so they can't close it now. The last 6 minutes are excellent as well (well, mostly the bit around the 16 minute mark).

[Libertarian666]

We were joking about churches declaring themselves protests in order to open, but those gym owners that Tim Pool lives near are actually doing it A Republican state senator has designated their gym one of his political locations, so they can't close it now. The last 6 minutes are excellent as well (well, mostly the bit around the 16 minute mark).

Yes, I saw a reference to that somewhere. Great solution to an insane situation!

[Hal]

Meanwhile from "The peoples paradise of Victoria"

On Monday the premier, Daniel Andrews, said he would ask parliament to extend the allowable period for a state of emergency to 12 months, and then renew it, allowing Victoria to remain in a state of emergency until September next year.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... s-concerns

[vnatale]

Officials say some Georgians treat COVID with bleach-like cleaner


https://www.ajc.com/politics/georgia-pu ... 3NMJCSFZI/

[Tortoise]

California's Governor Newsom is facing two lawsuits over the unconstitutionality of the school lockdowns: One by the Orange County Board of Education and the other by a group of parents.

[Tortoise]

^ Unfortunately you’re probably right about that, but the lawsuits at least send the right message and highlight that not even all government entities in blue states are on board with the lockdowns.

[Hal]

Hilarious Make sure you have the sound on.

https://www.facebook.com/mick.waldron.1 ... =2&theater

[I Shrugged]

Hilarious Make sure you have the sound on.

https://www.facebook.com/mick.waldron.1 ... =2&theater

OMG. Nitwittery.

[WiseOne]

Hey all,

I'm mostly out for the count due to my mother having a new health problem, and family coming into town. Not much time to peruse the form although it's an enjoyable few relaxing minutes of my day....really appreciate all the posts and keep 'em coming!

Funny related story. My brother decided to fly in from California and ignore the quarantine rules, but decided to get a COVID test as obviously he would be horrified to transmit it to my 84 yo, ailing mother. The thing is, all of them now say 7-10 days for a result. Ridiculous!!!! He finally found a private practice in Connecticut that offers a test with results in < 1 hour, so right after landing he drove straight there and got his test. Negative of course.

My sister (the ER doc in MA, afflicted with full on COVID hysteria to the point where she insists that everyone wear masks in the house and eat outside), berated him endlessly over this, he's endangering my mom etc. Then her daughter, who is currently unemployed and enjoying the benefits, decided to come down to NJ for a friend's party and use my mother's house as a convenient crash pad. My brother was up in arms over this for a couple of reasons. So at this point...who is afraid of COVID and how much? I thought the risk is very small given that COVID is long gone in this area, but it's certainly not zero and wow, the logical inconsistency amazes me.

[jalanlong]

Hey all,

I'm mostly out for the count due to my mother having a new health problem, and family coming into town. Not much time to peruse the form although it's an enjoyable few relaxing minutes of my day....really appreciate all the posts and keep 'em coming!

Funny related story. My brother decided to fly in from California and ignore the quarantine rules, but decided to get a COVID test as obviously he would be horrified to transmit it to my 84 yo, ailing mother. The thing is, all of them now say 7-10 days for a result. Ridiculous!!!! He finally found a private practice in Connecticut that offers a test with results in < 1 hour, so right after landing he drove straight there and got his test. Negative of course.

My sister (the ER doc in MA, afflicted with full on COVID hysteria to the point where she insists that everyone wear masks in the house and eat outside), berated him endlessly over this, he's endangering my mom etc. Then her daughter, who is currently unemployed and enjoying the benefits, decided to come down to NJ for a friend's party and use my mother's house as a convenient crash pad. My brother was up in arms over this for a couple of reasons. So at this point...who is afraid of COVID and how much? I thought the risk is very small given that COVID is long gone in this area, but it's certainly not zero and wow, the logical inconsistency amazes me.

Logical inconsistencies. Yesterday I went into a small computer repair shop to pick up a laptop I was having fixed. The two workers came out of the back room and they had obviously been smoking. Smoke was billowing out of the room and they reeked of cigarettes. Once they came out, what is the first thing they do? Put their masks and gloves on of course. Because they would not want to damage their respiratory system by catching COVID right??

I feel like things might be starting to creep towards reopening again here. My son's elementary school is supposed to reopen in 10 days and it appears that they are going forward with that (although I think it might be more from lack of students participating in the Virtual Learning rather than an actual desire to go back). Students are required to wear masks at all times, regardless of any special needs they may have. But at least it is a step in the right direction.

The doggy daycare/boarding place near me has had their lobby closed since March. To drop your dog off you had to park in the parking lot, call them and they would come out...in gloves and masks of course...and you couldn't have your collars on the dogs nor use your own leashes. What on earth is the % chance of catching a virus from a dog collar? In any case they are reopening their lobby on September 1st. Only 2 people allowed in at a time but still, baby steps.

[Cortopassi]

Yeah!

[Mountaineer]

Yeah!

Congrats. You and your daughter must be thrilled and relieved. Good for ND!

+1

[flyingpylon]

Yeah!

Interesting decision given that ND seems to be doing a fraction of the testing done by some other schools.

Indiana University - Bloomington tested almost 34,000 students upon arrival with just under a 1% positive rate. They have begun surveillance testing and will ramp up to testing students once or twice per week. They are building labs that will be ready to process 15,000 tests per day by October.

They have students in residence halls, Greek housing, and of course off-campus but the vast majority of classes are entirely online.

[Maddy]

The lawyer's office where I stopped in yesterday had several signs taped to the front desk that read "This office respects the ADA and HIPAA. Our staff will not be wearing masks." I was glad to see it.

One thing I keep wondering: For those people who insist that the sky is falling (I'm envisioning your sister, WiseOne), has anyone thought to ask them for how long they plan to keep this up? Assuming that the virus is here to stay, are they really prepared to live this way indefinitely?

When do YOU think the hysteria is going to end? When the election is over? When the unemployment benefits stop and people actually get hungry? When somebody claims to have a vaccine? When a true disaster puts this all in perspective? When a news flash comes out that reveals the extent of the corruption behind the hoax? Wish I knew how to create a poll.

[Tortoise]

California's Governor Newsom tweeted his "Blueprint for a Safer Economy" today.

Even businesses in counties with less than 1 daily new case per 100K population will still have required "modifications". Say what?

https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/ ... 16385?s=20