Coronavirus General Discussion

[WiseOne]

The official recommendation is that you're supposed to get the vaccine even if you've had COVID or evidence of past infection. No reason or scientific rationale given, so I can't explain why.

What is your source for this?

There have been bulletins distributed from my hospital and also NY DOH, but here it is on the CDC website:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... s/faq.html

[mathjak107]

Our doctor said we should wait 90 days from first symptoms to get the vaccine. That puts us in to March

[Tortoise]

The official recommendation is that you're supposed to get the vaccine even if you've had COVID or evidence of past infection. No reason or scientific rationale given, so I can't explain why.

What is your source for this?

There have been bulletins distributed from my hospital and also NY DOH, but here it is on the CDC website:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... s/faq.html

From that CDC web page:

If I have already had COVID-19 and recovered, do I still need to get vaccinated with a COVID-19 vaccine?

Yes. Due to the severe health risks associated with COVID-19 and the fact that reinfection with COVID-19 is possible, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19 infection. If you were treated for COVID-19 symptoms with monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma, you should wait 90 days before getting a COVID-19 vaccine. Talk to your doctor if you are unsure what treatments you received or if you have more questions about getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

Experts do not yet know how long someone is protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. The immunity someone gains from having an infection, called “natural immunity,” varies from person to person. It is rare for someone who has had COVID-19 to get infected again. It also is uncommon for people who do get COVID-19 again to get it within 90 days of when they recovered from their first infection. We won’t know how long immunity produced by vaccination lasts until we have more data on how well the vaccines work.

Both natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are important aspects of COVID-19 that experts are working to learn more about, and CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

So the CDC is saying that we don't yet know how long Covid-19 immunity lasts for natural immunity OR vaccine-based immunity, but despite that lack of knowledge we think everyone should get the vaccine. The implied argument seems to be that because there's an unknown non-zero chance that vaccine-based immunity might be longer-lasting than natural immunity for at least some people, the risk-minimizing approach is for everyone to get the vaccine.

It seems like that argument fails to consider the risk of vaccine complications and how it balances against the risk of reinfection after acquiring natural immunity.

[vnatale]

The official recommendation is that you're supposed to get the vaccine even if you've had COVID or evidence of past infection. No reason or scientific rationale given, so I can't explain why.

What is your source for this?

There have been bulletins distributed from my hospital and also NY DOH, but here it is on the CDC website:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... s/faq.html

From that CDC web page:

If I have already had COVID-19 and recovered, do I still need to get vaccinated with a COVID-19 vaccine?

Yes. Due to the severe health risks associated with COVID-19 and the fact that reinfection with COVID-19 is possible, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19 infection. If you were treated for COVID-19 symptoms with monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma, you should wait 90 days before getting a COVID-19 vaccine. Talk to your doctor if you are unsure what treatments you received or if you have more questions about getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

Experts do not yet know how long someone is protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. The immunity someone gains from having an infection, called “natural immunity,” varies from person to person. It is rare for someone who has had COVID-19 to get infected again. It also is uncommon for people who do get COVID-19 again to get it within 90 days of when they recovered from their first infection. We won’t know how long immunity produced by vaccination lasts until we have more data on how well the vaccines work.

Both natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are important aspects of COVID-19 that experts are working to learn more about, and CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

So the CDC is saying that we don't yet know how long Covid-19 immunity lasts for natural immunity OR vaccine-based immunity, but despite that lack of knowledge we think everyone should get the vaccine. The implied argument seems to be that because there's an unknown non-zero chance that vaccine-based immunity might be longer-lasting than natural immunity for at least some people, the risk-minimizing approach is for everyone to get the vaccine.

It seems like that argument fails to consider the risk of vaccine complications and how it balances against the risk of reinfection after acquiring natural immunity.

It does not explicitly but it does implicitly.

[Lonestar]

The official recommendation is that you're supposed to get the vaccine even if you've had COVID or evidence of past infection. No reason or scientific rationale given, so I can't explain why.

What is your source for this?

There have been bulletins distributed from my hospital and also NY DOH, but here it is on the CDC website:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... s/faq.html

In my "small study" of my mostly geriatric friends, I have notice the ones that have had Covid are reporting mild side effects from the vaccine. Those who have not are reporting no side effects. Have you ran across this?

[dualstow]

In my "small study" of my mostly geriatric friends, I have notice the ones that have had Covid are reporting mild side effects from the vaccine. Those who have not are reporting no side effects. Have you ran across this?

Interesting. Of my three friends who had the vax, one is in his 70s and the other two are closer to 30. They all reported the same aftereffects: a sore arm that kind of wanted to droop. They said the soreless lasted much longer than that from a flu shot, like two days. None of them have had covid.

My parents, average age 80, experienced no side effects.

[Mountaineer]

I received these notes from my 51 year old daughter yesterday, starting in the morning. She received dose 1 of the Moderna vaccine on Thursday, late morning, after some nasty grams from the medical management at her facility that "between the lines" threatened consequences if she did not get the vaccine. She is a nurse and initially had decided not to get the vaccine.

Friday morning:
Well arm really hurts and small red lump (normal!) it was wierd I had numbness from base of skull all the way to the wrist on injection arm. Today only sore.

I got a little achey last night before bed and felt chilled but I took some Tylenol and fine today.

I now have diarrhea an super nauseous I may have to leave work . I am trying to hang in.

I did a rapid COviD test yesterday in myself which was negative and no proof I had it before so who knows. We are seeing various symptoms from first and second shot. 4 people have called in today because of 2nd shot. And 5 people yesterday. I’ll be fine! I took some zofran to help with nausea .

4:30pm
Still diarrhea and achey, I thought I was better but I tried to eat a little, not a good idea I’m just wiped out and ready for bed but alive! and it’s FriYay!

[WiseOne]

Yeah I'm sure I'll get the same pressure from my organization eventually. However - I do plan to get the vaccine, I just want more time to assess side effects & risk etc. Like your daughter, Mountaineer. And, also like your daughter, I can't really afford to be out sick for even a few days.

There's a vaccine from Johnson & Johnson that I would prefer to the mRNA experimental vaccines. It requires just one shot and appears to have fewer side effects. It also uses a technology (weakened recombinant adenovirus) that's been around for a long time and there's already an approved vaccine (rabies) that uses it. That makes it the first COVID vaccine to use a technique that already has resulted in an approved vaccine with a well studied risk profile. It's still a fast track approval and it will take some time for the first set of guinea pigs to try it out (happening right now in South Africa), but definitely keep an eye on it if you are planning to wait.

[Kriegsspiel]

My mom tested positive. It felt good to be prepared and able to help her, because she doesn't keep on top of this stuff like I do. Started her out on only 1 bottle of wine a day, but she is free to increase the dosage if she starts feeling worse.

[Mountaineer]

My wife and I received our first Pfizer injections this morning. So far so good.

[vnatale]

My wife and I received our first Pfizer injections this morning. So far so good.

What put you so close to the head of the line? My doctor told me my turn would be about summer-time.

[Mountaineer]

My wife and I received our first Pfizer injections this morning. So far so good.

What put you so close to the head of the line? My doctor told me my turn would be about summer-time.

I really don’t know. We registered on the Delaware Health website about 10 days ago. The rest happened rather quickly. I remember we had 3 choices of where to go for the vaccination - pharmacy, personal physician, DE government event. Pharmacy did not know when vaccine might be available, personal physician said it would probably be summer before they had it, government events were last weekend and today. We selected the government event and scheduled accordingly for last Saturday - it was a disaster (long story) and we bailed out after a couple hours. Got notified to reschedule and we did. Extremely well organized today. They apparently learned from the mess of last Saturday.
Two of my male friends also had the shot at Government event. For some reason their wives were not called. All of us are over 70.
Re. getting the shot today - sore arm similar to my last flu shot. Hope that’s all that will happen.

[vnatale]

My wife and I received our first Pfizer injections this morning. So far so good.

What put you so close to the head of the line? My doctor told me my turn would be about summer-time.

I really don’t know. We registered on the Delaware Health website about 10 days ago. The rest happened rather quickly. I remember we had 3 choices of where to go for the vaccination - pharmacy, personal physician, DE government event. Pharmacy did not know when vaccine might be available, personal physician said it would probably be summer before they had it, government events were last weekend and today. We selected the government event and scheduled accordingly for last Saturday - it was a disaster (long story) and we bailed out after a couple hours. Got notified to reschedule and we did. Extremely well organized today. They apparently learned from the mess of last Saturday.
Two of my male friends also had the shot at Government event. For some reason their wives were not called. All of us are over 70.
Re. getting the shot today - sore arm similar to my last flu shot. Hope that’s all that will happen.

Thanks! I do not know if Massachusetts had such a registration.

[Mountaineer]

My wife and I received our first Pfizer injections this morning. So far so good.

What put you so close to the head of the line? My doctor told me my turn would be about summer-time.

I really don’t know. We registered on the Delaware Health website about 10 days ago. The rest happened rather quickly. I remember we had 3 choices of where to go for the vaccination - pharmacy, personal physician, DE government event. Pharmacy did not know when vaccine might be available, personal physician said it would probably be summer before they had it, government events were last weekend and today. We selected the government event and scheduled accordingly for last Saturday - it was a disaster (long story) and we bailed out after a couple hours. Got notified to reschedule and we did. Extremely well organized today. They apparently learned from the mess of last Saturday.
Two of my male friends also had the shot at Government event. For some reason their wives were not called. All of us are over 70.
Re. getting the shot today - sore arm similar to my last flu shot. Hope that’s all that will happen.

Thanks! I do not know if Massachusetts had such a registration.

This is the Delaware main COVID site: https://coronavirus.delaware.gov/vaccine/

This site may be a good starting point for you:
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massa ... nformation

Good luck!

[vnatale]

My wife and I received our first Pfizer injections this morning. So far so good.

What put you so close to the head of the line? My doctor told me my turn would be about summer-time.

I really don’t know. We registered on the Delaware Health website about 10 days ago. The rest happened rather quickly. I remember we had 3 choices of where to go for the vaccination - pharmacy, personal physician, DE government event. Pharmacy did not know when vaccine might be available, personal physician said it would probably be summer before they had it, government events were last weekend and today. We selected the government event and scheduled accordingly for last Saturday - it was a disaster (long story) and we bailed out after a couple hours. Got notified to reschedule and we did. Extremely well organized today. They apparently learned from the mess of last Saturday.
Two of my male friends also had the shot at Government event. For some reason their wives were not called. All of us are over 70.
Re. getting the shot today - sore arm similar to my last flu shot. Hope that’s all that will happen.

Thanks! I do not know if Massachusetts had such a registration.

This is the Delaware main COVID site: https://coronavirus.delaware.gov/vaccine/

This site may be a good starting point for you:
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massa ... nformation

Good luck!

Thanks. That looks like it is exactly where one would start.

[Mountaineer]

Interesting article in the WSJ today.

By Andrew Beaton and Louise Radnofsky

“The NFL’s Covid-19 Finding That Saved the Season”

The coronavirus gospel of ‘within six feet for more than 15 minutes’ wasn’t enough—and the NFL had the data to prove it. ....

Four main factors were cited: cumulative time, distance, ventilation, masks. Not rocket science, common sense.

[jalanlong]

The joy of public school in 2020-2021:


Our Valentine's Parties will take place on Friday, February 12. Face to Face students students will play party games and open Valentine's Cards during their party which will be hosted by their teachers. There will be no eating during the party to avoid mask removal. Face to Face students should bring their Valentine Cards by Wednesday, February 10 to distribute. Cards will then "quarantine" for 2 days and be opened during the party on February 12.

[mathjak107]

I broke a denture while being quarantined for covid ....the dentist said it had to be out of my mouth three days before sending it to the lab even though it was 5weeks from first symptoms

[mathjak107]

Not the dentist . that is the dental labs rules who had to repair it....all those with covid symptoms had to have the device sealed in a bag for 3 days before they will work on it.

Of course it’s the honor system

[Vil]

Here the usage of UV (esp. UVC) lamps has risen a lot, all different in size and shape. IMHO that might be possible solution for all that sort of situations. The stupid thing here is the schools do not legitimate their usage in classrooms - mechanism is simple - a fan pushing the air through a funnel where UVC emitter is located. Of course the schools are obliged to follow directives written decades ago, when pandemia was a term still only met in Sci-Fi books and movies. But what to say as even ICNIRP do not fully legitimate them (due to safety reasons), more on:
https://www.icnirp.org/en/activities/ne ... lamps.html

[mathjak107]

Not the dentist . that is the dental labs rules who had to repair it....all those with covid symptoms had to have the device sealed in a bag for 3 days before they will work on it.

Of course it’s the honor system

So again, I say your dentist is an idiot.

He could submerge the denture in a standard dental disinfectant for an hour and it would be free of virus. Plus, every lab I use disinfects every item they receive immediately, so double non-issue. There are also a million labs out there, so if the regular one is being difficult, use another.

QED, your dentist is an idiot.

I was locked in to the same lab that made it since it was still warranted because I had it only 9 months ..so they made the rules and it was what it was .

It did way to much flexing during the weeks in the hospital .. I tried to get by without a little fixodent every few days since I had none and the stress fractured it after I got home ...

[WiseOne]

Well now isn't this an interesting find!!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/e ... index.html

OK, this is from CNN guys. The fountain of all that is holy, according to the forum members who insist on "reputable sources" for everything. And of course their current coverage is a 180 degree turnaround from this.

It really does sum up my concerns about the vaccines. All theoretical yes and no hard evidence as of yet. But, I'm going to stick to my convictions that waiting for more data to come in before taking one of the vaccines is the right move for people at very low risk of adverse outcomes from this virus.

[Mark Leavy]

I continually find it hilarious that folks who live and breathe science, like WiseOne, are mocked for being science deniers by journalists that couldn't find the square root of two if you placed it in front of their shoes.

[vnatale]

Read elsewhere...

Vinny


We’re underselling how damn effective the vaccines are
There has been no shortage of news and information about the relative effectiveness of the vaccines of late, but as David Leonhardt of the New York Times noted in yesterday’s NYT newsletter, we’re probably focusing too much on the wrong metrics and coming away with too pessimistic a take on it.

We read things about how, say, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was 66 percent effective or that the Novavax vaccine was 89 percent effective, but we’re not appreciating that those numbers are referring to the vaccines rate of preventing all illness. They’re talking about the complete dearth of infection transmission. That, however, should not be considered the important metric, because that counts simply getting COVID and having mild symptoms or no symptoms � as many of us have done or know someone who has done � as a failure.<

The real metric we should be looking at is the reduction in the rate of hospitalizations, long-term illnesses, and death. Leonhardt:

By those measures, all five of the vaccines � frrom Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and Johnson & Johnson � look extremely good. Of the roughly 75,000 people who have received one of the five in a research trial, not a single person has died from Covid, and only a few people appear to have been hospitalized. None have remained hospitalized 28 days after receiving a shot.

To put that in perspective, it helps to think about what Covid has done so far to a representative group of 75,000 American adults: It has killed roughly 150 of them and sent several hundred more to the hospital. The vaccines reduce those numbers to zero and nearly zero, based on the research trials.

Zero isn’t even the most relevant benchmark. A typical U.S. flu season kills between five and 15 out of every 75,000 adults and hospitalizes more than 100 of them.

I assume you would agree that any vaccine that transforms Covid into something much milder than a typical flu deserves to be called effective.

I would agree. And for that reason, it’s worth being far, far more optimistic than we generally have been about what the vaccines are doing and will do once they’re more fully rolled out.

[I Shrugged]

Just ran into my former neighbor. His wife died got COVID and died last month. She’d have been mid 70s, with some conditions. Damn.