Coronavirus General Discussion

[Mark Leavy]

There is only one strategy that will, without fail, put an end to this idiocy: A leak-proof plastic bag placed over the head, firmly sealed around the neck with a rubber band.

If helium weren’t in a shortage, that might be a useful addition.

A question just occurred to me. Since inhaled helium makes one's voice sound higher and inhaled sulfur hexafluoride (SF6) makes one's voice sound lower, what happens if one inhales a 50/50 mix of helium and SF6? Do they just cancel each other out?

I really want to try this now.

If the mix has the same density as air...

[dualstow]

And just in case anyone here still doesn't believe this whole thing was political:

b0835ac1cfae.jpg

Should we go with Stone or Stein?

[Cortopassi]

mj, I asked in your daytrading thread if your experience with Covid changed your feelings toward it?

I don't know if you expressed any opinion prior to getting it, but I think you've been pretty open that your hospital stay and the whole experience was pretty difficult.

I didn’t do much of anything for weeks ....it was only after being in the hospital and passing that peak 11-14 day period that I felt up to doing anything

Wasn’t my question mj, I am wondering before you got it, were you a masker, anti masker, believer, non believer, etc, and did your view get changed?

[WiseOne]

I was surprised to see this article in BMJ. Read and enjoy! tl;dr: it's a commentary suggesting that a low carb diet should be recommended to people with COVID risk factors as the best way to treat them, and reduce COVID risk.

https://ebm.bmj.com/content/26/1/1

I've kept quiet about this for the most part, but I have come to believe this also, after quite a bit of research. It's not necessary to go fully ketogenic, just limit carbs to around 20-25% of calories, and avoid the Really Bad Stuff which is sugar, grains other than rice, and industrial vegetable oils. And, supplement vitamin D as needed to get a good blood level.

It would be ironic indeed if the COVID pandemic could be effectively laid at the doorstep of the USDA and their outrageous dietary guidelines.

WiseOne, why is rice any less bad for you than, say, oatmeal? And do you mean brown rice, or is white somehow acceptable? Please elaborate.

A lot of what's written about this is rather questionable on the science, but what is clear that wheat is by far the worst, with an explosion of celiac disease (confirmed by blood test studies) and sensitivities since the introduction of a hybridized, high producing dwarf wheat variety in the 1970s. And corn, rye, barley and other grains share some of the same glutens as wheat so they are almost as bad. Rice is different. Oats maybe too. They both are pure glucose bombs, but I've found I can handle rice in small amounts. I cook it in advance and cool it overnight before warming it up, just for that bit of resistant starch.

[mathjak107]

mj, I asked in your daytrading thread if your experience with Covid changed your feelings toward it?

I don't know if you expressed any opinion prior to getting it, but I think you've been pretty open that your hospital stay and the whole experience was pretty difficult.

I didn’t do much of anything for weeks ....it was only after being in the hospital and passing that peak 11-14 day period that I felt up to doing anything

Wasn’t my question mj, I am wondering before you got it, were you a masker, anti masker, believer, non believer, etc, and did your view get changed?

we wore masks for sure when around anyone .in fact we were so good all these months .

but all it took we think was one indoor meal with a friend , within 2 days we all had symptoms . i believe if we ate outdoors some of us would have dodged the bullet .

we still dont know who gave it to who ... we all dont know anyone who had it we were in contact with .

only place we could have got it was we went back to the gym . but it was never crowded , we all were masked and we spray every machine .

the friend owns a business so someone with no symptoms may have passed it to him .

we will never know

[Kriegsspiel]

The microbiological blessings will be given to everyone, in due time. If you are judged worthy, you will be spared, but alas! 0.03% will be judged harshly, and will know no mercy.

Viralallelujah.

[I Shrugged]

You guys are worry warts. This becomes another flu shot, no lockdowns. My opinion.

That's certainly what should happen. But I guess we'll see how the media decides to spin new viruses going forward.

I predict summer.

I also am somewhat perplexed -- you know, all the people who said Corona would "disappear" on Nov 4th? What happened?

I felt that “after the election “ the powers that be would lose interest in prosecuting the virus war. The way it turned out, Inauguration Day was a better marker for the end of the election. Here’s a Bloomberg article about five blue states opening up despite new worries that would have made them do the opposite before the election.

https://apple.news/AHCqDFDG-Q7y-WeMs42FMvQ

[dualstow]

the friend owns a business so someone with no symptoms may have passed it to him .

so there *is* asymptomatic spread

[Kriegsspiel]

Making a statement based on an n of 1 and outside of a controlled study? Why do you hate science?

[mathjak107]

the friend owns a business so someone with no symptoms may have passed it to him .

so there *is* asymptomatic spread

There sure is

[dualstow]

Making a statement based on an n of 1 and outside of a controlled study? Why do you hate science?

[Kriegsspiel]

They may have had symptoms, but went out anyway. If they had a mask on and it was soaked with runny nose juice and they kept touching the mask An Offering...well you can see where this goes.

Respect the Gift.

[Tortoise]

so there *is* asymptomatic spread

I don't know about asymptomatic spread, but presymptomatic spread definitely seems to be a thing.

My wife's parents visited us for the weekend a couple of weeks ago. They both felt fine, no symptoms, but the day after they went back home my wife's father developed mild symptoms and later tested positive for Covid. My wife, baby daughter, and I also developed mild symptoms about 4-7 days after he went home, so it's pretty likely he infected all of us while presymptomatic.

It was just a mild flu/cold for all of us. Interestingly, my wife's father is in his 80s and has multiple comorbidities (diabetes and heart disease), yet he appears to have had the mildest symptoms out of all of us.

[whatchamacallit]

so there *is* asymptomatic spread

I don't know about asymptomatic spread, but presymptomatic spread definitely seems to be a thing.

My wife's parents visited us for the weekend a couple of weeks ago. They both felt fine, no symptoms, but the day after they went back home my wife's father developed mild symptoms and later tested positive for Covid. My wife, baby daughter, and I also developed mild symptoms about 4-7 days after he went home, so it's pretty likely he infected all of us while presymptomatic.

It was just a mild flu/cold for all of us. Interestingly, my wife's father is in his 80s and has multiple comorbidities (diabetes and heart disease), yet he appears to have had the mildest symptoms out of all of us.

Glad to hear everyone is doing well. That is good news.

[dualstow]

...and later tested positive for Covid.
... so it's pretty likely he infected all of us while presymptomatic.
...

Wow! Have you been tested?

[Tortoise]

Wow! Have you been tested?

No, only my wife’s father was tested. My wife and I are just conservatively assuming that we and our baby were infected since we all got similar symptoms about a week after he left. So we’ll avoid all stores and take-out food places and stick to delivery for the next two weeks.

Getting tested wouldn’t really change our quarantine plan for the next two weeks. Maybe at some point I’ll take an antibody test if a positive result would allow me to avoid taking the vaccine.

[boglerdude]

Opening school is racist
https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownCritic ... union_gem/

Double mask science
https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/ ... 3243193349

[mathjak107]

so there *is* asymptomatic spread

I don't know about asymptomatic spread, but presymptomatic spread definitely seems to be a thing.

My wife's parents visited us for the weekend a couple of weeks ago. They both felt fine, no symptoms, but the day after they went back home my wife's father developed mild symptoms and later tested positive for Covid. My wife, baby daughter, and I also developed mild symptoms about 4-7 days after he went home, so it's pretty likely he infected all of us while presymptomatic.

It was just a mild flu/cold for all of us. Interestingly, my wife's father is in his 80s and has multiple comorbidities (diabetes and heart disease), yet he appears to have had the mildest symptoms out of all of us.

The doctors I had in the hospital said the most damage the virus does that they see treating thousands now , is usually a viral pneumonia...

If your lungs are clear then the damage is usually your own immune system going in to over drive ....the same way auto immune diseases have the body attacking joints and organs , your own immune system trying to kill the invaders does a lot of inflammation in your own body .

So the effects of covid can be all over the map , from virus damage to autoimmune system damage and that is why we have so many outcomes

[WiseOne]

Wow! Have you been tested?

No, only my wife’s father was tested. My wife and I are just conservatively assuming that we and our baby were infected since we all got similar symptoms about a week after he left. So we’ll avoid all stores and take-out food places and stick to delivery for the next two weeks.

Getting tested wouldn’t really change our quarantine plan for the next two weeks. Maybe at some point I’ll take an antibody test if a positive result would allow me to avoid taking the vaccine.

It won't. The official recommendation is that you're supposed to get the vaccine even if you've had COVID or evidence of past infection. No reason or scientific rationale given, so I can't explain why.

Also note. The clinical trials used the classical medical definition of "cases" as their outcome measure. That is, they didn't test everyone who participated, only those who reported illnesses consistent with COVID-19. Furthermore, the vaccines were designed to attenuate symptoms, not to prevent transmission or infection. So, there is no evidence or reason to believe that the vaccines will reduce positive tests - especially given the super-sensitive nature of the PCR test. Since the official COVID figures conflate positive tests with cases, we effectively have no data on whether vaccination will reduce the official case counts.

This is why I think the lockdowns & mandates are going to continue until both citizens and local governments get tired of them, and the news media find something more titillating to focus on. A war somewhere in the Middle East would be my guess. Or maybe an economic and social media battle with China, or a major scandal.

Also of course, all the people who are desperate to get the vaccine will have to have gotten it, a process which can't possibly take less than a year at the current pace. The one thing we can be sure the vaccine will immunize against is fear of COVID.

[dualstow]

so there *is* asymptomatic spread

..
I don't know about asymptomatic spread, but presymptomatic spread definitely seems to be a thing.
..

Maybe it would be misleading for me to say so without proper context, but isn't presymptomatic a subset of asymptomatic?

[Tortoise]

so there *is* asymptomatic spread

..
I don't know about asymptomatic spread, but presymptomatic spread definitely seems to be a thing.
..

Maybe it would be misleading for me to say so without proper context, but isn't presymptomatic a subset of asymptomatic?

Not according to various articles I've read such as the one below. The two terms are mutually exclusive since asymptomatic means the person never goes on to develop symptoms, whereas a presymptomatic person does.

People in the presymptomatic stage are highly contagious. “The peak of viral shedding occurs right before symptoms develop and immediately after, when the symptoms are still mild,” Dr. Narasimhan says. Sanjay Gupta, MD, CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, also previously said that those who are presymptomatic are highly contagious. "People tend to be the most contagious before they develop symptoms, if they're going to develop symptoms," he said in a recent CNN article. But when it comes to asymptomatic patients, how much virus they shed and how contagious they are is still a matter of debate, Dr. Narasimhan says.

https://www.health.com/condition/infect ... ymptomatic

[Kriegsspiel]

The official recommendation is that you're supposed to get the vaccine even if you've had COVID or evidence of past infection. No reason or scientific rationale given, so I can't explain why.

What is your source for this?

[Hal]

Sheesh... Life in Victoria.

https://www.rebelnews.com/full_video_av ... e=therebel

[dualstow]

so there *is* asymptomatic spread

..
I don't know about asymptomatic spread, but presymptomatic spread definitely seems to be a thing.
..

Maybe it would be misleading for me to say so without proper context, but isn't presymptomatic a subset of asymptomatic?

Not according to various articles I've read such as the one below. The two terms are mutually exclusive since asymptomatic means the person never goes on to develop symptoms, whereas a presymptomatic person does.

People in the presymptomatic stage are highly contagious. “The peak of viral shedding occurs right before symptoms develop and immediately after, when the symptoms are still mild,” Dr. Narasimhan says. Sanjay Gupta, MD, CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, also previously said that those who are presymptomatic are highly contagious. "People tend to be the most contagious before they develop symptoms, if they're going to develop symptoms," he said in a recent CNN article. But when it comes to asymptomatic patients, how much virus they shed and how contagious they are is still a matter of debate, Dr. Narasimhan says.

https://www.health.com/condition/infect ... ymptomatic

Thank you.

[dualstow]

Would Larry King’s death count as Covid or not? From the wiki page:

On January 2, 2021, it was revealed that King had been hospitalized ten days earlier in a Los Angeles hospital after testing positive for COVID-19.[125] On January 23, he died at the age of 87 at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles.[2][3][5][126] King's wife Shawn told Entertainment Tonight that he had recovered from COVID-19, but the infection led to him being unable to recover from sepsis, which ultimately took his life.[127]