Coronavirus General Discussion

[Cortopassi]

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/why-a ... l-covid-19

Any thoughts on the final summary statements that history will judge the shutdowns as the worst policy decision of our lifetimes?

I don't even need to read the summary statement to agree. I thought from the very first moment the lockdowns started that this was going to end up being the most FUBAR thing the government has done in my lifetime and that includes the war in Vietnam.

Sweden, near zero deaths currently. Went for herd immunity model, correct? 5,700 deaths. Pop 10.2MM. Do the math, that corresponds to about 183,000 dead with the US's population, which we haven't hit yet.

Intangibles: Sweden's BMI is much lower. Obesity seems to be a major cofactor. They did not force mask wearing or social distancing, but were people more compliant there than the US (they do lean socialist/left, correct?) Less of the damn, you're not taking my freedom with a mask types?

I think there was nothing obvious early on that their model would be any better than the lockdown models many states did.

I suspect given the US's more varied population, and likely generally less healthy population would have made the current US death number significantly higher than it now is.

[Kriegsspiel]

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/why-a ... l-covid-19

Any thoughts on the final summary statements that history will judge the shutdowns as the worst policy decision of our lifetimes?

I don't even need to read the summary statement to agree. I thought from the very first moment the lockdowns started that this was going to end up being the most FUBAR thing the government has done in my lifetime and that includes the war in Vietnam.

I don't know if they were the worst decisions of my lifetime, at first. With the information we had at the time it wasn't the dumbest thing to say "hey, let's hunker down for a couple weeks just in case this is Shiva, Destroyer Of Worlds." But continuing authoritarian shutdowns and trampling of civil rights for half a year (+) while learning that it isn't, I suspect, is going to be judged pretty harshly in the future.

[Libertarian666]

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/why-a ... l-covid-19

Any thoughts on the final summary statements that history will judge the shutdowns as the worst policy decision of our lifetimes?

I don't even need to read the summary statement to agree. I thought from the very first moment the lockdowns started that this was going to end up being the most FUBAR thing the government has done in my lifetime and that includes the war in Vietnam.

I don't know if they were the worst decisions of my lifetime, at first. With the information we had at the time it wasn't the dumbest thing to say "hey, let's hunker down for a couple weeks just in case this is Shiva, Destroyer Of Worlds." But continuing authoritarian shutdowns and trampling of civil rights for half a year (+) while learning that it isn't, I suspect, is going to be judged pretty harshly in the future.

Yep.

[Cortopassi]

This is not a good sign for my daughter. I don't know how ND will be able to justify not going online if this continues. Goddamit.

[Tortoise]

When something reopens, that will imply a certain unavoidable increase in infections. Masks and distancing can reduce the rate of spread, but they can't prevent spreading altogether.

Do some people actually think it's possible to reopen businesses, schools, etc. without the number of infections rising?

[Cortopassi]

When something reopens, that will imply a certain unavoidable increase in infections. Masks and distancing can reduce the rate of spread, but they can't prevent spreading altogether.

Do some people actually think it's possible to reopen businesses, schools, etc. without the number of infections rising?

I hope they don't, but there's a lot out there that seem to want to accept only zero risk. Another thread, right?

So far the Facebook page for ND Covid is very moderate in tone. All parents seem to want to make this work and make sure their kids can stay there. So I feel good about that.

But I imagine the news will be talking about ND shortly just like they did UNC.

[jalanlong]

When something reopens, that will imply a certain unavoidable increase in infections. Masks and distancing can reduce the rate of spread, but they can't prevent spreading altogether.

Do some people actually think it's possible to reopen businesses, schools, etc. without the number of infections rising?

+1,000,000

I am thoroughly confused by people's seeming perplexity on how you can shelter citizens inside their homes, then let them out and viruses cases go up.

Our wonderful governor is fond of saying that a virus doesn't care if you have Covid fatigue and doesn't care if you want to return to the movies or get a haircut. I would turn it around and say a virus also doesn't care if you shut down for 3-12 weeks or not. It is not a shark that will move on if there is no food source available.

Unfortunately this way of thinking is why I have very little hope on this ending soon. If we continue to play the game of shutting things down, then reopening a bit, then acting surprised when cases spike, then shutting down again we will go on with this in perpetuity.

[Tortoise]

When something reopens, that will imply a certain unavoidable increase in infections. Masks and distancing can reduce the rate of spread, but they can't prevent spreading altogether.

Do some people actually think it's possible to reopen businesses, schools, etc. without the number of infections rising?

I hope they don't, but there's a lot out there that seem to want to accept only zero risk. Another thread, right?

So far the Facebook page for ND Covid is very moderate in tone. All parents seem to want to make this work and make sure their kids can stay there. So I feel good about that.

But I imagine the news will be talking about ND shortly just like they did UNC.

Also, note how the number of daily tests (the gray rectangle) increased by a factor of 20x from 8/16 to 8/17. That alone pretty much accounts for the "spike" in cases on 8/17. Shouldn't alarm anyone.

[WiseOne]

Also, note how the number of daily tests (the gray rectangle) increased by a factor of 20x from 8/16 to 8/17. That alone pretty much accounts for the "spike" in cases on 8/17. Shouldn't alarm anyone.

That's why looking at excess mortality is the fairest assessment of COVID impact. See my last post in this thread. The chart is well worth a look.

I agree that we are looking at a permanent cycle of reopen, see cases, close again, lather rinse repeat for the next year or two, I guess until a vaccine is sufficiently widely available and accepted for governors to declare victory. So silly...when did schools ever close because of the myriad of flu-like illnesses that come through every year? Kids are in greater danger from non-COVID viruses than from COVID, judging by the numbers. And in MUCH greater danger from cars and swimming pools.

We have truly lost our minds over this.

[jalanlong]

Also, note how the number of daily tests (the gray rectangle) increased by a factor of 20x from 8/16 to 8/17. That alone pretty much accounts for the "spike" in cases on 8/17. Shouldn't alarm anyone.

That's why looking at excess mortality is the fairest assessment of COVID impact. See my last post in this thread. The chart is well worth a look.

I agree that we are looking at a permanent cycle of reopen, see cases, close again, lather rinse repeat for the next year or two, I guess until a vaccine is sufficiently widely available and accepted for governors to declare victory. So silly...when did schools ever close because of the myriad of flu-like illnesses that come through every year? Kids are in greater danger from non-COVID viruses than from COVID, judging by the numbers. And in MUCH greater danger from cars and swimming pools.

We have truly lost our minds over this.

Last night I saw another indication this is not going to end soon. In line at a small grocery store, 2 women in front of me saw a sign that the cash register they were at accepted cash transactions. They began to berate the poor woman at the register, lecturing her on the dangers of accepting dirty cash, how they cannot believe as a company they would want to accept cash and how the cashier would feel if she brought germs home to her loved ones and they got sick. All of this while their cart was filled with $90+ worth of frozen waffles, orange juice and assorted pastries. They ended their spiel with "Its a crazy world right now" with zero sense of irony.

[Tortoise]

Last night I saw another indication this is not going to end soon. In line at a small grocery store, 2 women in front of me saw a sign that the cash register they were at accepted cash transactions. They began to berate the poor woman at the register, lecturing her on the dangers of accepting dirty cash, how they cannot believe as a company they would want to accept cash and how the cashier would feel if she brought germs home to her loved ones and they got sick. All of this while their cart was filled with $90+ worth of frozen waffles, orange juice and assorted pastries. They ended their spiel with "Its a crazy world right now" with zero sense of irony.

Seems like there could be a business opportunity here. I don't know if machines like this already exist, but imagine a small box with a glass cover that allows customers to see clearly inside of it. Any time there's a cash transaction, the customer would drop their cash into a slot in the top of the box, then the box would fill with "bright" UV light from all directions for several seconds. (This part could be designed to look very cool and impressive to customers.) The cashier would then open the box, transfer the sterilized cash to the register, place any change in the UV box to sterilize it, then the customer could take the sterilized change.

Doing that would delay each cash transaction by a few seconds, but probably not long enough to be prohibitive.

[Cortopassi]

Notre Dame just went online for 2 weeks. At least they aren't sending kids home.... yet...

[Hal]

Mandatory vaccinations in Australia

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... 67f22e41a3

[Maddy]

Seems like there could be a business opportunity here. I don't know if machines like this already exist, but imagine a small box with a glass cover that allows customers to see clearly inside of it. Any time there's a cash transaction, the customer would drop their cash into a slot in the top of the box, then the box would fill with "bright" UV light from all directions for several seconds. (This part could be designed to look very cool and impressive to customers.) The cashier would then open the box, transfer the sterilized cash to the register, place any change in the UV box to sterilize it, then the customer could take the sterilized change.

Ah, yes, but that would defeat the whole purpose of the exercise, which is to force us all into a virtual system where "THEY" control how many digits are to the left of the decimal point in your account and where one wrong move and. . . poof!. . . the decimal point moves again!

[Maddy]

Mandatory vaccinations in Australia

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... 67f22e41a3

"Deliberately infecting people with the virus may be possible in future (after careful consideration of the ethical implications), but is not currently allowed."

Well, just so we're clear that a deliberate public health effort to infect people might be the answer, but allowing it to circulate organically in the young, healthy population. . . well, that's simply not acceptable.

What more proof do you need that this is about royalties, not science or even public health?

[Kriegsspiel]

Notre Dame has never went online due to rampant STDs or mono or anything like that, correct?

[Libertarian666]

Mandatory vaccinations in Australia

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... 67f22e41a3

"Deliberately infecting people with the virus may be possible in future (after careful consideration of the ethical implications), but is not currently allowed."

Well, just so we're clear that a deliberate public health effort to infect people might be the answer, but allowing it to circulate organically in the young, healthy population. . . well, that's simply not acceptable.

What more proof do you need that this is about royalties, not science or even public health?

I think that's plenty.

[shekels]

Mandatory vaccinations in Australia

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... 67f22e41a3

They need to have the experimental vaccine tested on all the People in the Government and their parents and children first.

Before the general population gets to be the Guinea pigs.

[Tortoise]

If the government gives me the choice between taking the vaccine or being deliberately infected with the virus, I’d probably choose the virus.

Statistically, I would almost certainly beat the virus without any symptoms (maybe a mild fever and a cough if I were really unlucky). But an experimental vaccine that’s been rushed to market? There aren’t really any statistics to assess that risk. No thanks.

Alas, the government won’t give us that choice. I just like to dream sometimes.

[Hal]

Why do I feel the population is being treated like livestock?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXt4Hd2x2NY

[WiseOne]

Here's another prediction for you guys: by the time the vaccine comes along, the virus will be over and done in most places - certainly in the U.S. And it will not make a noticeable dent in the progression of the virus as a result. Yet it will be hailed as the savior of us all, because now it will be "safe". I guess that the resulting economic recovery will be worth the billions of dollars that will be spent on it. Plus it will be genuinely useful for protecting high risk individuals and allowing nursing homes to reopen to visitors.

Who here plans to get the vaccine when it comes out? I'm pretty sure I will have no choice in the matter and I imagine MangoMan would have to as well. Also I'd want my mom (age 85) to get the vaccine. Her descent into Alzheimer's appears to have stabilized at least for now, she has no other medical issues, and she's still enjoying life, so....good calculus there.

[shekels]

Who here plans to get the vaccine when it comes out? I'm pretty sure I will have no choice in the matter and I imagine MangoMan would have to as well. Also I'd want my mom (age 85) to get the vaccine. Her descent into Alzheimer's appears to have stabilized at least for now, she has no other medical issues, and she's still enjoying life, so....good calculus there.

I am not Anti-VAX but in this case. No vaccine for me.

I have seen many items brought to market that have terrible everlasting effects.
You may even get a chance to sue the Manufacturer later, with a lawyer from the television commercial.


Thalidomide anyone, first marketed as an anti-flu drug.

[vnatale]

Dr. Fauci, live on C-Span, in 6 minutes - noon - Wednesday! You can always catch it later on the C-Span web site.

Vinny

[Tortoise]

Who here plans to get the vaccine when it comes out?

Most of us probably won’t have a choice.

The government may not officially mandate it, but “society” will. Many schools and workplaces probably won’t allow people to return in person until they show proof of vaccination.

If I really have a choice, I’ll probably opt out.

[Cortopassi]

222 positive at ND. About a 20% positivity rate.

Does not bode well for any other schools in the nation.

Gonna be pissed if I gotta strain my back loading up all the stuff again for a return home.

Regardless of your position on Trump or governors, does not bode well for anyone in power staying in power with millions of kids learning online in the US, esp if schools are back operating in other countries.