Trump's letter to Pelosi

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Mountaineer
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:09 pm

Right up there on declaring war with FDR's day of infamy speech - except it's another war among ourselves. Lord help us all.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:22 pm

That is a pretty awesome letter. I sure hope the Bidens get investigated. I'd like to see it all fall apart. I'd even make some popcorn. I just hope whatever replaces everything is actually better and not some dystopia.
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by I Shrugged » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:48 pm

He’s a fighter.
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by WiseOne » Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:46 pm

Wow.

I have to say that the last time I saw a letter like that, it was written by a guy who ended up in a psychiatric hospital a few weeks later.

Go Trump.
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by drumminj » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:37 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:46 pm
I have to say that the last time I saw a letter like that, it was written by a guy who ended up in a psychiatric hospital a few weeks later.
WiseOne, is this said "matter-of-fact"-ly, or is there an implication here?
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by doodle » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:48 am

The letter states that Biden used US military aid to force the firing of a prosecutor who was investigating Burisma where his son was on board. I thought this all has been throuroughly debunked about five dozen times?

But...politicians and their families taking nepotistic advantages is wrong. Hunter biden shouldn't have been offered that job...but for that matter I don't see how this is any different than Jared kushner or Ivanka trump working as senior advisors to president. Or trump continually scheduling conferences at properties he owns.
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by dualstow » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:07 am

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:46 pm
Wow.

I have to say that the last time I saw a letter like that, it was written by a guy who ended up in a psychiatric hospital a few weeks later.

Go Trump.
😂
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:52 am

doodle wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:48 am
The letter states that Biden used US military aid to force the firing of a prosecutor who was investigating Burisma where his son was on board. I thought this all has been throuroughly debunked about five dozen times?

But...politicians and their families taking nepotistic advantages is wrong. Hunter biden shouldn't have been offered that job...but for that matter I don't see how this is any different than Jared kushner or Ivanka trump working as senior advisors to president. Or trump continually scheduling conferences at properties he owns.
1) You say something enough times, people start believing it. Like me. Everyone says it was debunked, but I've not researched or looked into how it was debunked and who decided it was debunked. Regardless of that portion of it, hiring a guy with zero experience to sit on your board for 50k/mo is absolutely trying to buy influence. I don't think I've heard democrats defend this aspect of it, right?

2) Nepotism should be outlawed in public sectors. Happens all the time in Chicago politics.
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by WiseOne » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:15 am

doodle wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:48 am
The letter states that Biden used US military aid to force the firing of a prosecutor who was investigating Burisma where his son was on board. I thought this all has been throuroughly debunked about five dozen times?
Well not exactly. If Joe Biden had been subject to the type of investigation that Trump has been over the past few years, don't you think something would have emerged from it? Here's the NY TImes summary, which I would expect to be strongly tilted in favor of Biden:
The allegation at the heart of the controversy is that while Mr. Biden was vice president, he pushed to have Ukraine’s top prosecutor removed for investigating a company connected to Mr. Biden’s son Hunter, the Ukrainian natural gas firm Burisma. ...

Vice President Biden was overseeing American policy toward Ukraine at the time, and he did push for the removal of the country’s top prosecutor, who was seen as corrupt or ineffectual by the United States and Western European governments. But there is no evidence he did so to benefit Hunter Biden or the oligarch who owns Burisma, Mykola Zlochevsky.

In 2014, Hunter joined the board of Burisma, which was then mired in a corruption scandal. Authorities in Ukraine, Britain and the United States had opened investigations into the company’s operations. Mr. Zlochevsky had also been accused of marshaling government contracts to companies he owned and embezzling public money.

At the time of his board appointment, the younger Mr. Biden had just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for drug use. He had no apparent experience in Ukraine or natural gas. And while accepting the board position was legal, it reportedly raised some eyebrows in the Obama administration. The Burisma board position was lucrative: Mr. Biden received payments that reached up to $50,000 per month.
A year later, Viktor Shokin became Ukraine’s prosecutor general, a job similar to the attorney general in the United States. He vowed to keep investigating Burisma amid an international push to root out corruption in Ukraine.

But the investigation went dormant under Mr. Shokin. In the fall of 2015, Joe Biden joined the chorus of Western officials calling for Mr. Shokin’s ouster. The next March, Mr. Shokin was fired. A subsequent prosecutor cleared Mr. Zlochevsky.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/29/busi ... unter.html

If Joe Biden were a physician, he'd have had the book thrown at him for sure. His son's presence on the board is a substantial conflict of interest no matter how you slice it. And that board position itself could only have been a political favor...so what did Ukraine get in exchange? You seriously mean to tell me that Burisma was that anxious to hire a US drug convict with zero experience in their business for such a prominent and highly paid position? The prosecutor firing may not have been the main issue, but it serves as an indicator that Joe Biden was actively engaged - for reasons that are rather unclear. What's so special about Ukraine that the Vice President needed to get personally involved? Where was the Secretary of State, who should properly have been doing this job?

BTW not to pick on Joe Biden particularly. As far as I'm concerned, about 90% of members of Congress who haven't been accused of something just haven't been investigated thoroughly enough. Hell, if you investigated ME for 3 years you'd probably find something to charge me with!!
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:22 am

WiseOne wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:15 am
You seriously mean to tell me that Burisma was that anxious to hire a US drug convict with zero experience in their business for such a prominent and highly paid position? The prosecutor firing may not have been the main issue, but it serves as an indicator that Joe Biden was actively engaged - for reasons that are rather unclear. What's so special about Ukraine that the Vice President needed to get personally involved? Where was the Secretary of State, who should properly have been doing this job?

BTW not to pick on Joe Biden particularly. As far as I'm concerned, about 90% of members of Congress who haven't been accused of something just haven't been investigated thoroughly enough. Hell, if you investigated ME for 3 years you'd probably find something to charge me with!!
There are so many reasonable people on this board! I imagine, if it comes down to Biden and Trump in 2020, esp. if this Biden thing is still brewing, I see a lot of independent, reasonable people in the country voting for Trump.

If Trump can break open some floodgate on Biden and associates showing corruption, he's going to be incredibly hard to beat. If I am any indication of the independent population who flip back and forth democrat vs. republican, I have gone from significantly far left (related to Trump) to moderately right in the span of a month. I can certainly flip back.

---Hell, if you investigated ME for 3 years you'd probably find something to charge me with!!

One of the reasons I will never run for a public office. Not that there's anything major. But enough stupid actions as a teenager that I'd not want public! Thank God there weren't cell phones back then.
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:11 am

The Biden/Ukraine scandal has absolutely not been "debunked". That is a Democrat talking point.

Most people fall into the Republican/Democrat false dichotomy trap and fail to understand what's been going on. When viewed as the Uniparty vs the rest of us, it makes a lot more sense. Congressional members at the top of both parties are up to their eyeballs in Ukraine problems and will take actions that defend and protect the swamp.

Or so people tell me. ;)
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by Tyler » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:43 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:22 am
I imagine, if it comes down to Biden and Trump in 2020, esp. if this Biden thing is still brewing, I see a lot of independent, reasonable people in the country voting for Trump.
Yep. The Biden family corruption is so blatantly obvious in this situation that anyone can understand it. To the average voter looking up from real life just long enough to see what everyone is talking about, the first impression is that the Democrats want to impeach the president for trying to expose a crime and then elect the person who committed the crime. It's no coincidence that Trump's approval rating keeps climbing through this whole process.
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by dualstow » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:34 pm

Tyler wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:43 pm
The Biden family corruption is so blatantly obvious in this situation that anyone can understand it. To the average voter looking up from real life just long enough to see what everyone is talking about, the first impression is that the Democrats want to impeach the president for trying to expose a crime and then elect the person who committed the crime. It's no coincidence that Trump's approval rating keeps climbing through this whole process.
I would agree except on the reason for impeachment. They've got their ostensible reason, but the real reason is because they don't want to face him in the next election.
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:56 pm

Rudy is still investigating in Ukraine and claims to have four people there willing to testify to corruption by both Bidens. He saying this on TV, so if he’s lying he’s setting himself up for problems.
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Re: Trump's letter to Pelosi

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:31 pm

Tyler wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:43 pm
The Biden family corruption is so blatantly obvious in this situation that anyone can understand it. To the average voter looking up from real life just long enough to see what everyone is talking about, the first impression is that the Democrats want to impeach the president for trying to expose a crime and then elect the person who committed the crime.
This is correct, IMO.
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