Impeachment failing in battleground states

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technovelist
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by technovelist » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:56 am

sophie wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:09 pm
Taking the Blago and Trump impeachment cases together, it looks to me like the bar for impeachment is a lot lower than it is for a prosecution in a civil court. And come to think of it, Bill Clinton's little lie might not have resulted in a court case either, in the real world.

I don't think that was meant to happen though. Otherwise, the Constitution would describe impeachment for "high crimes and misdemeanors, or for being an a**hole".
That, or something like it, was considered, although they referred to it as "maladministration". That was rejected though, on the grounds that they weren't trying to make the US into a parliamentary system like that of Great Britain.
sophie wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:09 pm
I also think that after the Bill Clinton debacle, the Republicans have lost their right to complain now that it's their guy (aka the a**hole) in the hot seat. Gotta remember that they started this, and now they have to live with the consequences: ANY government official facing a hostile legislative body can now be first extensively investigated to find the desired pretext, then impeached.
The two situations aren't actually very comparable, for many reasons:

1. There is absolutely NO evidence that Trump committed ANY crime, much less a high crime. Perjury is a pretty serious crime in a law enforcement officer, don't you think?
2. The Republicans didn't use the FBI and other "intelligence" agencies to spy on Clinton. They investigated him publicly.
3. The Republicans didn't announce that they were going to impeach him before there was any evidence that he had done anything wrong. Nancy Pelosi said the other day that the impeachment had been going on for 2 1/2 years.

Now all of this doesn't mean that the Clinton impeachment was a good idea. I'm not sure of that. But I do know there is a world of difference between the two.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Maddy » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:47 am

doodle wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:19 am
From sondlands opening testimony it seems like a lot of the Ukraine policy was filtered through Rudy Giuliani. Why does the president involve his private lawyer and a private citizen when conducting government foreign policy? Is Giuliani a firewall? A way to claim attorney client priviledge when conducting foreign affairs in a shady manner? If trump delegates his attorney to carry out foreign policy how does any communication between the two come to light without breaking attorney client priveledges? And if things go south, with any policy directive carried out by Giuliani trump can always throw his attorney under the bus claiming he acted independently of Trump's orders.
The short answer is that he was stabbed in the back too many times by Obama leftovers bent on carrying out a coup.

Not to be confused with the Weiner guy who, when not snapping shirtless photos of himself and sexting teenage girls, was charged by the former Secretary of State with the job of safekeeping tens of thousands of classified documents.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Tyler » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:56 am

moda0306 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:05 pm
What I am confident is that Trumpanzees have no f'ing idea what they're talking about, and are hopeless tribal boobs.
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:36 pm
You Trumpists really are something to behold... but I don't say this with little anger. Just confusion and embarrassment. This place used to have some really damn intelligent conversations going on.

A forum is the sum of its contributors. The blind spot between these statements is so large that you can drive a truck through it.

If you truly want an intelligent conversation, be the change you wish to see in the world.
Mechanical engineer, history buff, treasure manager... totally not Ben Gates
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by moda0306 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:18 am

Tyler wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:56 am
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:05 pm
What I am confident is that Trumpanzees have no f'ing idea what they're talking about, and are hopeless tribal boobs.
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:36 pm
You Trumpists really are something to behold... but I don't say this with little anger. Just confusion and embarrassment. This place used to have some really damn intelligent conversations going on.

A forum is the sum of its contributors. The blind spot between these statements is so large that you can drive a truck through it.

If you truly want an intelligent conversation, be the change you wish to see in the world.
Tyler,

I agree that a forum is a sum of its contributors. My trying to bleed any valid critical analysis out of Trumpists is the most fruitless efforts I've ever experienced. I know intelligent, intriguing leftists, libertarians, anarchists, monarchists, and conservatives. But almost all the Trump apologism here wreaks of some mix of knuckle-dragging idiocy, tribalism and groupthink. I'll "be the change I want to see" by calling out bad reasoning/sourcing where it lies, rather than put up with constant gas-lighting attempts using Scott Adams, Breitbart and Prager-U as sources.

And there's nothing contradictory about saying that conversations used to be intelligent here and engaging in pointed assessments of where we are at. If you want to call out inconsistency, look no further than the orange clown with his finger on the button.

The idea that anyone could look at the greasy clown show that is US federal politics and claim that only the Dems, in an era of that shit show in the white house, are materially part of the problem, is absolutely ludicrous.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Tyler » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:02 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:18 am
My trying to bleed any valid critical analysis out of Trumpists is the most fruitless efforts I've ever experienced.
If you're struggling that badly, maybe try a different approach. Clearly what you're doing now is not working and is making you unhappy.
Mechanical engineer, history buff, treasure manager... totally not Ben Gates
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:54 pm

Tyler wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:02 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:18 am
My trying to bleed any valid critical analysis out of Trumpists is the most fruitless efforts I've ever experienced.
If you're struggling that badly, maybe try a different approach. Clearly what you're doing now is not working and is making you unhappy.
moda,
Perhaps being respectful in your language would be a good start, maybe also being respectful of those you disagree with, even if it is President Trump. Be respectful of the office of the President if nothing else. Sugar catches more flies than vinegar. :)

Best wishes.

For example, these are inflamatory words in the context of your post (my opinion) - bolded text:

I agree that a forum is a sum of its contributors. My trying to bleed any valid critical analysis out of Trumpists is the most fruitless efforts I've ever experienced. I know intelligent, intriguing leftists, libertarians, anarchists, monarchists, and conservatives. But almost all the Trump apologism here wreaks of some mix of knuckle-dragging idiocy, tribalism and groupthink. I'll "be the change I want to see" by calling out bad reasoning/sourcing where it lies, rather than put up with constant gas-lighting attempts using Scott Adams, Breitbart and Prager-U as sources.

And there's nothing contradictory about saying that conversations used to be intelligent here and engaging in pointed assessments of where we are at. If you want to call out inconsistency, look no further than the orange clown with his finger on the button.

The idea that anyone could look at the greasy clown show that is US federal politics and claim that only the Dems, in an era of that shit show in the white house, are materially part of the problem, is absolutely ludicrous.
I've learned that to ignore the truth does not change the truth.
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Re: Impeachment failing in battleground states

Post by technovelist » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:31 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:54 pm
Tyler wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:02 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:18 am
My trying to bleed any valid critical analysis out of Trumpists is the most fruitless efforts I've ever experienced.
If you're struggling that badly, maybe try a different approach. Clearly what you're doing now is not working and is making you unhappy.
moda,
Perhaps being respectful in your language would be a good start, maybe also being respectful of those you disagree with, even if it is President Trump. Be respectful of the office of the President if nothing else. Sugar catches more flies than vinegar. :)

Best wishes.

For example, these are inflamatory words in the context of your post (my opinion) - bolded text:

I agree that a forum is a sum of its contributors. My trying to bleed any valid critical analysis out of Trumpists is the most fruitless efforts I've ever experienced. I know intelligent, intriguing leftists, libertarians, anarchists, monarchists, and conservatives. But almost all the Trump apologism here wreaks of some mix of knuckle-dragging idiocy, tribalism and groupthink. I'll "be the change I want to see" by calling out bad reasoning/sourcing where it lies, rather than put up with constant gas-lighting attempts using Scott Adams, Breitbart and Prager-U as sources.

And there's nothing contradictory about saying that conversations used to be intelligent here and engaging in pointed assessments of where we are at. If you want to call out inconsistency, look no further than the orange clown with his finger on the button.

The idea that anyone could look at the greasy clown show that is US federal politics and claim that only the Dems, in an era of that shit show in the white house, are materially part of the problem, is absolutely ludicrous.
I diagnose Stage 4 TDS. Usually incurable but a complete cessation of fake news input might help a bit.
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