Is Trump doing a good job?

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jalanlong
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by jalanlong » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:17 pm

sophie wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:25 am

First, I also think the cholesterol theory and the resulting USDA guidelines are BS, but it's not about "not following science." I question it because I am following the science, and not the unfounded belief system that gave rise to it. I can recommend a book if you like.
Diet really confuses me. I have spent the better part of the last 2-3 years reading about diet so that I can hopefully age better and avoid some health issues late in life by using "cleaner fuel" so to speak. But after all of the reading and studying, I am not sure I have any more concrete ideas now then I had when I started. For every point of view there are studies supporting it, condemning it and people were both successful and unsuccessful trying it.

Pete Carroll is the oldest coach in the NFL but he looks fantastic. He easily looks better than half of the coaches out there. He credits a vegan diet for turning around his life a few years ago, getting rid of his arthritis, lowering his blood pressure etc. But then just last week 2 celebrities went off the vegan train. Miley Cyrus said her brain was foggy and upon eating meat it suddenly got clearer. Mike Tyson said he could not get decent muscle tone and be in the shape he wanted without meat.

That would lead you to believe it is all individual but there are a lot of studies showing that our bodies have not changed that much since hunter/gatherer times and all of our bodies really run the same way more or less.

In a way it is like the mask debate. When the science is confusing you just fall back on your personal belief system right? If you trust authorities you wear a mask without question and avoid meat. If you are a rebel and question authority perhaps you do the opposite.
Last edited by jalanlong on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by sophie » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:18 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:04 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:03 pm
vnatale wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am
The proscribed United States diet is not based upon science but based upon politics, driven by lobbyists.

Vinny
But it all started with Ancel Keys, a scientist, cherry picking data to fit his "saturated fat is bad" dogma.
Right, and who's to say the same isn't true about masks?
Bingo.

I guess I have an easier time questioning authority than most people. Also as a medical scientist myself, I have insider knowledge on how the sausage is made. I have served as a peer-reviewer for a rather large number of journals, up to and including Nature journals, and several NIH, European, and state/local grant review panels. You'd probably be horrified at what I've seen come across my desk.

Corto, if you're armed with the knowledge needed to tell the USDA to go to hell, then it's mainly a confidence issue. Don't rely on doctors...The vast majority are not scientists and can't judge the literature any better than you can.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Xan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:41 pm

Mostly a tangent, but here's another example of conventional wisdom being totally wrong: people think they're recycling when they put their plastic in the recycling bin. But they're really not.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/89769209 ... e-recycled
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by pugchief » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:44 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:54 am
sophie wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:25 am
I encourage you to seek out evidence presented by dispassionate, clear-thinking types and to ignore politically motivated propaganda. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to tell the difference.
I've read Good Calories, Bad Calories and Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes, The Great Cholesterol Con by Malcolm Kendrick, and other related books. Right, if the science was followed and not cherry picked, we wouldn't be where we are on diet.

But, just like with almost everything, once a position is taken, it is really hard to back off and change, esp. when egos are involved. And it really seems many doctors and scientists are guilty of the I'm sticking with my position regardless of the evidence position on a variety of subjects.
The prescribed United States diet is not based upon science but based upon politics, driven by lobbyists.

Vinny
Masks?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:56 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:04 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:03 pm
vnatale wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am
The proscribed United States diet is not based upon science but based upon politics, driven by lobbyists.

Vinny
But it all started with Ancel Keys, a scientist, cherry picking data to fit his "saturated fat is bad" dogma.
Right, and who's to say the same isn't true about masks?

btw, Vinny, "proscribed" means "forbidden". "prescribed" is what you're looking for, I think.
I agree. As I've stated, except in public situations in stores, I do not wear a mask.

The Trump and coronavirus topics sure are getting mish mashed here!

I'd like Trump to say the following, because it is what "I" would say. Unfortunately this is where it becomes problematic because you have 50-60% of people not believing anything he says, so from that perspective, leadership has failed if the majority of the population doesn't believe you on important issues. It's quite likely you can say that about any president, but I think the extent Trump is not believed by the other side (on anthing) is probably larger than any time in recent history.

"Coronavirus was new to us early this year. Even though it is a coronavirus, like a cold virus, we were unsure of its transmissivity through the air (Note, how could we not??!!) We have since found that mask wearing might be helpful in some close in situations, where someone might sneeze or cough out large droplets, but in general, the virus is so small that masks are effectively transparent to the smaller vapor particles we otherwise normally breathe out. Therefore, even though much of the rest of the world has mandated masks, the US will not be mandating them (At this point, probably a TOUGH sell!)

Scientists have determined that the particles can travel in air up to 26 feet, so there is no effective social distancing possible, short of a lockdown.

Given these constraints, my recommendation to people are:

1) if you are in a higher risk group, generally those older than 70 with other underlying conditions, you should consider wearing a N95 level mask and learn how to use it properly if you go outdoors, or alternatively, limit your exposure until an effective vaccine is available.

2) To everyone else, your risk is minimal. That is not to say there won't be some severe cases and deaths like any higher than average flu season. Wash your hands more often."

Or something like that.

But you also have to recall April and May where people in NYC were dropping like flies and we were more uniformly freaked out than we are now.
Last edited by Cortopassi on Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:57 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:41 pm
Mostly a tangent, but here's another example of conventional wisdom being totally wrong: people think they're recycling when they put their plastic in the recycling bin. But they're really not.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/89769209 ... e-recycled
I've had a talk about that with my wife because I'm always putting her iffy (fused metal and plastic) recycling submissions in the trash. I should have just kept up the pretenses with pure plastic with numbers on it. I may as well told her there are giant spiders living in the basement.
(She still thinks the elderly dog down the block moved to Florida).
RIP Ron Cobb (Daily Check-in Thread).
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by jalanlong » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:56 pm


"Coronavirus was new to us early this year. Even though it is a coronavirus, like a cold virus, we were unsure of its transmissivity through the air (Note, how could we not??!!) We have since found that mask wearing might be helpful in some close in situations, where someone might sneeze or cough out large droplets, but in general, the virus is so small that masks are effectively transparent to the smaller vapor particles we otherwise normally breathe out. Therefore, even much of the rest of the world has mandated masks, the US will not be mandating them (At this point, probably a TOUGH sell!)
I too would love it if he said that. However, I know If he came out and said that then the media and most large businesses would virtue signal respond and "mask harder." Ultimately so many businesses and government buildings would require masks that we would be in the same position we are now, only with a much louder minority refusing.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:13 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 pm
However, I know If he came out and said that then the media and most large businesses would virtue signal respond and "mask harder."
This is where the original topic comes into play.

I don't know if it simply is social media amplifying polarization, but I would have thought Carter, or Reagan, Or HW, or Clinton or George W or even Obama could have commanded a more unified response, NOT that it would have been the right response in the end, though.

I could be wrong here.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by pugchief » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:19 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:13 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 pm
However, I know If he came out and said that then the media and most large businesses would virtue signal respond and "mask harder."
This is where the original topic comes into play.

I don't know if it simply is social media amplifying polarization, but I would have thought Carter, or Reagan, Or HW, or Clinton or George W or even Obama could have commanded a more unified response, NOT that it would have been the right response in the end, though.

I could be wrong here.
The MSM twists his words at every turn, unlike with any former president. It matters not what he says. How can anyone believe him if the media is constantly lying, twisting and subverting him?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by jalanlong » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:59 pm

pugchief wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:13 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 pm
However, I know If he came out and said that then the media and most large businesses would virtue signal respond and "mask harder."
This is where the original topic comes into play.

I don't know if it simply is social media amplifying polarization, but I would have thought Carter, or Reagan, Or HW, or Clinton or George W or even Obama could have commanded a more unified response, NOT that it would have been the right response in the end, though.

I could be wrong here.
The MSM twists his words at every turn, unlike with any former president. It matters not what he says. How can anyone believe him if the media is constantly lying, twisting and subverting him?
I am very interested if this is a Trump thing or a thing with any Republican president in the future. Up until Trump, the media tried to at least maintain a semblance of being unbiased. If the next President is a more traditional Republican (say a McCain/Romney type) does the MSM go back to showing at least a little respect for them or is this a sea change and any Republican going forward is going to get the Trump treatment?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by flyingpylon » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm

The media response has more to do with the fact that Trump is an outsider not from the established political class than whether he’s a Republican or Democrat.

The UniParty establishment doesn’t care if you’re R or D as long as you’re willing to play their game. Trump’s not playing their game (any more than he’s forced to) so he’s a threat that needs to be neutralized.

People that continue to see all of this as a R vs D thing are really missing the big picture.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:00 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm

People that continue to see all of this as a R vs D thing are really missing the big picture.
Doesn't that play into the whole global elite conspiracy theory? Why then, does he campaign actively, and hard, for so many republicans? Why would he care, if it is a uinparty?
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