Gyroscopic Investing

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:47 pm**

vnatale wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:20 pm
There HAS to be extreme and harsh internal penalties for leaking from the IRS because I cannot remember it ever happening.

Vinny

Vinny, you're a gentle soul and I like you.

But you are also smart. And an accountant. If you felt it was vitally important to the security of the country to leak some numbers to the press, do you think you could do it without getting caught?

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:49 pm**

glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:00 pm
stuper1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:34 pm If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.
Including tax returns

How about all your medical records and all your private correspondence with everyone you've ever known?
Want to publish them here?

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:42 pm**

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:49 pm
glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:00 pm
stuper1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:34 pm If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.
Including tax returns
How about all your medical records and all your private correspondence with everyone you've ever known?
Want to publish them here?

Does it make a difference that I'm not running for public office, not seeking a position where my decisions would have any impact on you or anyone else participating in this discussion forum?

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:11 pm**

Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:47 pm
vnatale wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:20 pm
There HAS to be extreme and harsh internal penalties for leaking from the IRS because I cannot remember it ever happening.

Vinny
Vinny, you're a gentle soul and I like you.

But you are also smart. And an accountant. If you felt it was vitally important to the security of the country to leak some numbers to the press, do you think you could do it without getting caught?

Yes, I could do if not working for the IRS. But if I were working for the IRS and there was a list of penalties such as "and, every one of your tax returns that have ever been filed and every one you subsequently file will be audited" I might not take the chance.

But there is another factor here - privacy and trust. I did work for an accounting firm for 9 years. I had access to every single tax return the firm filed. I would have loved to have seen my friend's tax return, which was prepared by that firm. However, since I was not involved in preparing his tax tax, I never looked at it because doing so would have been a gross breach of privacy and trust. I don't want that happening to me therefore by the golden rule I'm not doing to do it to others.

Another case, was when I was remotely backing up all my financial advisor's client files on to my hard drive. This was well over 20 years ago. Again, I knew some of his clients and would have loved to have looked at their portfolios. But for the same reasons described above, while I still have all those files, I have never opened one of them.

But back to the IRS. I'm almost certain that they have fairly antiquated computer systems. But, even so, I have to believe that they have some record of each person who has ever touched a certain tax return. Therefore, IF a tax return was ever leaked they are going to focus on each person who ever touched that return and put on heavy pressure. And, I mean HEAVY pressure.

When I was 18 years old I had a summer job with the US post office, delivering mail. One day I left my mailbox key in the mailbox. I came back and told my boss what I had done. Luckily a subsequent mailman found it. My boss told me that that key opened every mailbox in Cranston and Providence (Rhode Island) -- a population of about 250,000 -- and if that key had not been found, they'd have to change the keys on all the boxes in boxes for each city overnight. He told me that the postal inspectors would be on me for the rest of my life. As I said, luckily another mailman found it. How I left it there is a story for another time.

We like to think the government is inept. In certain cases you do NOT want to cross the government.

I just don't know of a tax return ever being leaked from the IRS. Do you?

Finally, your exact question was: "to leak some numbers to the press".

What credibility would you give to some numbers appearing in an article that stated it came from an unnamed source within the IRS? I'd suspect none.

Wouldn't we at least need to see the first page of the 1040 both signed by the taxpayer and the tax preparer?

And, even then, how do we know that it genuine and the real thing and not something someone created in a tax program?

Vinny

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:35 am**

Harry Reid lied about Mitt Romney’s taxes in the 2012 election. All it takes is an accusation and the media takes it from there. Credibility not required. The damage can’t be undone in a timely manner if at all.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harr ... neys-taxes

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:28 am**

glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:42 pm
Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:49 pm
glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:00 pm
stuper1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:34 pm If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.
Including tax returns
How about all your medical records and all your private correspondence with everyone you've ever known?
Want to publish them here?
Does it make a difference that I'm not running for public office, not seeking a position where my decisions would have any impact on you or anyone else participating in this discussion forum?

Probably not to some rabid glennds stalker who alleges he saw you pee on the flagpole when you were in kindergarten.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:44 am**

vnatale wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:11 pm ...

We like to think the government is inept. In certain cases you do NOT want to cross the government.

I just don't know of a tax return ever being leaked from the IRS. Do you?

Finally, your exact question was: "to leak some numbers to the press".

What credibility would you give to some numbers appearing in an article that stated it came from an unnamed source within the IRS? I'd suspect none.

Wouldn't we at least need to see the first page of the 1040 both signed by the taxpayer and the tax preparer?

And, even then, how do we know that it genuine and the real thing and not something someone created in a tax program?

Vinny

Great response, Vinny, thanks.
I absolutely believe that it isn't something you would do. Both from a sense of ethics and an understanding that it is a bad idea all the way around. I just don't have much faith that all of the IRS employees have that same ethos and common sense.

Here's hoping you are right.
Mark

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:46 am**

Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:44 amGreat response, Vinny, thanks.
I absolutely believe that it isn't something you would do. Both from a sense of ethics and an understanding that it is a bad idea all the way around. I just don't have much faith that all of the IRS employees have that same ethos and common sense.

Here's hoping you are right.
Mark

Vinny's right that I've never heard of anybody's tax information ever being leaked by the IRS. Which is really very impressive.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:51 am**

Simonjester wrote: given the way the IRS handled tax status applications from the tea party a little while ago, it seems likely that many do not have the ethical standards Vinny (and most of us) would expect and hope they have..

Yes, that was very messy and put a huge black mark on the entire organization, no question.

But on this specific issue, the leaking of citizens' personal information from the IRS, it seems they have a stellar track record.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:15 am**

Simonjester wrote: agreed but given past behavior, not leaking tax returns seems more like a line they haven't crossed than a line they "would never cross". i hope its a hard line, and that the system makes it an incredibly tough one to break,
but ....internal vigilance... price of liberty...

much like the way scorpions kill there Uber driver frogs at river crossings, we know the nature of unnamed bureaucrats..

I'm not saying you're wrong.

But, wow, what a big juicy target that Trump tax return is. Would the NYT pay a leaker for it? I don't actually know. I'm guessing it's a federal crime to leak it, so probably they wouldn't pay.

Regardless, if that one hasn't leaked, it seems like the system is working pretty well.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:54 am**

Xan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:15 am I'm not saying you're wrong.

But, wow, what a big juicy target that Trump tax return is. Would the NYT pay a leaker for it? I don't actually know. I'm guessing it's a federal crime to leak it, so probably they wouldn't pay.

Regardless, if that one hasn't leaked, it seems like the system is working pretty well.

Contrast that to just about every other branch of government where there seems to be leakers galore.

I do think it may have something to do with the IRS discretion to audit whoever it pleases and the threat to do so. Even if you have nothing to hide, the IRS can allege they found something and you do not want to then be in audit Hell trying to defend yourself. It's just you against the entire IRS.

Vinny

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:54 am**

MangoMan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:42 am
Xan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:15 am I'm not saying you're wrong.

But, wow, what a big juicy target that Trump tax return is. Would the NYT pay a leaker for it? I don't actually know. I'm guessing it's a federal crime to leak it, so probably they wouldn't pay.

Regardless, if that one hasn't leaked, it seems like the system is working pretty well.
It wouldn't have to necessarily be someone at the IRS. I have had to send the first page of my tax return to prove my income to various entities in the past. Theoretically, anyone at one of those firms could leak it.

Yes, that's a good point. Any time you take out a mortgage, for instance, they want years of tax returns. Same for other types of loan, I would imagine. And yet I've never heard of a tax return being leaked.

Posted: **Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:11 am**

Simonjester wrote:
and on the topic of candidates song choices....... biden plays this

Biden then played a “Despacito,” a top song from a few years ago, that means “slowly” in English. The song is sexually graphic in nature.

The song, translated into English, states (warning—explicit lyrics):

I want to breathe in your neck slowly
Let me murmur things in your ear
So that you remember if you’re not with me
Slowly
I want to undress you in kisses slowly
Firmly in the walls of your labyrinth
And of your body, I want to create a manuscript
Up, up, up, up
I want to see your hair dance
I want to be your rhythm
Want you to show my mouth
Your favorite places (Favorite, favorite baby)
Let me trespass your danger zones
Until I make you scream
And you forget your last name
Slowly
We’re gonna do it on a beach in Puerto Rico
Until the waves scream Oh Lord

I expect the Trump campaign rally music chooser to immediately add this song!

Posted: **Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:06 am**

Simonjester wrote: and on the topic of candidates song choices....... biden plays this
Biden then played a “Despacito,” a top song from a few years ago, that means “slowly” in English. The song is sexually graphic in nature.

The song, translated into English, states (warning—explicit lyrics):

I want to breathe in your neck slowly
Let me murmur things in your ear
So that you remember if you’re not with me
Slowly

I want to see your hair dance
I want to be your rhythm

Biden, the master troll?

Simonjester wrote: imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

Posted: **Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:31 am**

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:06 am
Simonjester wrote: and on the topic of candidates song choices....... biden plays this
Biden then played a “Despacito,” a top song from a few years ago, that means “slowly” in English. The song is sexually graphic in nature.

The song, translated into English, states (warning—explicit lyrics):

I want to breathe in your neck slowly
Let me murmur things in your ear
So that you remember if you’re not with me
Slowly

I want to see your hair dance
I want to be your rhythm

Biden, the master troll?

More like Biden, the demented child molester.

Posted: **Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:34 am**

Simonjester wrote: and on the topic of candidates song choices....... biden plays this
Biden then played a “Despacito,” a top song from a few years ago, that means “slowly” in English. The song is sexually graphic in nature.

The song, translated into English, states (warning—explicit lyrics):

I want to breathe in your neck slowly
Let me murmur things in your ear
So that you remember if you’re not with me
Slowly
I want to undress you in kisses slowly
Firmly in the walls of your labyrinth
And of your body, I want to create a manuscript
Up, up, up, up
I want to see your hair dance
I want to be your rhythm
Want you to show my mouth
Your favorite places (Favorite, favorite baby)
Let me trespass your danger zones
Until I make you scream
And you forget your last name
Slowly
We’re gonna do it on a beach in Puerto Rico
Until the waves scream Oh Lord

Posted: **Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:53 am**

Let me just put this Here..

Is Trump doing a good job?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1305935037200773121

Posted: **Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:24 pm**

Simonjester wrote: and on the topic of candidates song choices....... biden plays this

https://twitter.com/TheUnitedSpot1/stat ... 12866?s=20

Posted: **Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:36 pm**

Simonjester wrote: Trump has finally achieved super villain status

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 824295002/

i didn't bother to read it... i just wanted to share another Trump achievement..

Trump just received his third Nobel Peace Prize nomination, so there's that I guess.

Posted: **Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:54 pm**

Simonjester wrote: if Biden doesn't pick this as his next intro song... he knows nothing about one-upping the competition..

He's a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere man, the world is at your command

He's as blind as he can be
Just sees what he wants to see
Nowhere man can you see me at all?

Nowhere man, don't worry
Take your time, don't hurry
Leave it all till somebody else lends you a hand

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere man, the world is at your command

He's a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Priceless!

.

Posted: **Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:47 pm**

That's apparently a Beatles song, for anyone else who isn't ancient.

Posted: **Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:23 pm**

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:47 pm That's apparently a Beatles song, for anyone else who isn't ancient.

Yes, that hit home for me last summer when I talking to a young woman (early 20s?) and said something about the Beatles and was surprised she was that familiar with them. When she responded that they were like 50 years ago, that hit home!

That would have been like someone expecting of me to be familiar with some aspect of the popular culture from the 1910's!

Vinny

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:25 pm**

You might know more than you thought:

http://www.artandpopularculture.com/1910s

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:36 pm**

Mountaineer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:25 pm You might know more than you thought:

http://www.artandpopularculture.com/1910s

Just did a quick scan. NOT that much.

Of course, know about World War I and the Titantic. Though I would not consider them culture.

Have heard of several of the books, which are culture.

And, of course, know tons about baseball from that time period.

But what of the culture endured 50 years later aside from the classical music?

The Beatles and classic rock are still going strong 50 years later.

Vinny

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:46 pm**

Mountaineer wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:54 pm

Simonjester wrote:
if Biden doesn't pick this as his next intro song... he knows nothing about one-upping the competition..

He's a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere man, the world is at your command

He's as blind as he can be
Just sees what he wants to see
Nowhere man can you see me at all?

Nowhere man, don't worry
Take your time, don't hurry
Leave it all till somebody else lends you a hand

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere man, the world is at your command

He's a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Priceless!

.

Two more alternative versions for you:

Randy Travis Nowhere Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAK_q6mgpgM

Nowhere Man · Paul Westerberg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trpl7Vu1aPU

Gyroscopic Investing

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