Is Trump doing a good job?

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Xan
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Xan » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 am

The "euphemism treadmill" is a different debate. Seriously, look it up, it's fascinating. "idiot", "imbecile", and "moron" were all created as value-free clinical terms for people of low IQ. Then those got charged with meaning and were replaced by "retarded". Then "special". Same thing over and over. I don't know that there's any solving that one.

I think we're now getting to the meat of it: are you equating the use of the phrase "kung fu" with an ethnic slur? That's what I've been trying to get at earlier when I'm asking whether there's some use of the phrase that I'm unaware of.

Why are "kung fu" (a term for a Chinese fighting style as far as I'm aware) and "Chink" (a derogatory term for a person of Chinese descent) the same in any way at all? In what way is using the phrase "kung fu" being negative towards Chinese people?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:35 am

There’s bigotry anywhere one wants to find it. If it can’t be found, just redefine it. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Xan » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:39 am

I might one day see a poster saying "Strike out cancer!" with a picture of a pitcher throwing a ball. Baseball is America's pastime... I'm American... Now I'm offended because the poster is bigoted against Americans!
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:21 am

First off, for Corto, when people use those words innocuously, like when a black person says "what up my nigger" or a homosexual like Milo calls himself a "dangerous faggot," nobody cares. Well, leftists cared/rioted when Milo doing it, because he is a right winger; nobody cares when black people do it*, but I hope you see what I mean. It's almost always obvious when them's fightin words. Kung Flu is a funny way to refer to coronavirus, it's not being meant to Chinese people. Bottom line, if people get offended when people aren't trying to offend them, they're being too sensitive, to the point of being disingenuous.

Now, Chinkin Pox? That's a good pun too, but for me, it's too mean-spirited to use in a normal conversation

* I was thinking of Dave Chappelle as an example. Reference the immortal Rick James sketch or like... literally anything he's done for innocuous usage. Here's how Dave explains it, from Sticks And Stones:
On network television, they have a department that’s called Standards and Practices. This is the department that tells you what you can and cannot say on television. And if you’re doing your job well, you should never hear from ’em. But if you’re making Chappelle’s Show, you’ll hear from these motherfuckers all the time.

And remember, this was 15 years ago. I made a mistake. I didn’t even know I’d done anything wrong. I had written a sketch… that had the word… “faggot” in it. So I had to go to Standards and Practices. They call me up. I don’t know why they’re calling me, but I like the lady that runs the department. She’s usually really fair and was one of my favorite people I’ve ever worked with. So she sits me down. We have a nice conversation. She tells me, “Oh, the sketches are great.” I go, “Oh, fantastic. Well, then… well, then, why am I here?” She said, “Because, David, there’s no way… that you can ever say the word… “faggot” on our network.

I didn’t know I did anything wrong. I didn’t try to defend myself. I said, “All right. Fuck it, I’ll take it out. Have a good afternoon.” And as I was leaving, it occurred to me. “Hey. Hey, Renée, quick question. It’s just a question. Seriously, I wanna know. Like, wh-why is it… why is it that… that I can say the word “nigger” with impunity… …but I can’t say the word “faggot”?” And she said, “Because, David, you are not gay.” I said, “Well, Renée… I’m not a nigger either.”
Second, I have thought this whole time that Xan was an Asian dude. Wild stuff. Maybe he was playing that level in Half Life (computer game, before anyone [Vinny] asks) when he made his username.... which... also points weakly to Asian. If it was some kind of Starcraft reference it would be a lock. ^-^ <-- AZN smiley. I'll see myself out.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:36 am

Xan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 am
are you equating the use of the phrase "kung fu" with an ethnic slur?
Yes.

But only when you add in the "flu" for fu. And that you have the president of the US using it.

Let me be clear, IMO, he would not be saying it if he were not specifically targeting China/Chinese. When the virus first came around, did you see what happened to some Chinatowns, and some of the rage directed at Chinese-Americans? Why was that? Because they are physically distinguishable from white people.

Are my wife (2nd generation American, but Chinese) and kids snowflakes for thinking it is derogatory? Could it partly be because it is Trump and they hate him regardless? If Obama said it (I can't imagine he would) would they have been ok with it?

Just as much as I am running in circles trying to convince you guys it is a slur, you all are rationalizing why it isn't.

I feel isolated here. Want to ask again if anyone on this board is Asian and is ok or not with it.

I am probably super sensitive to this because my wife was not initially well received by my family because she wasn't a nice Italian girl.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:26 pm

I think we have a theme song for our board, and a theme TV series. What say you? Seems we are doing quite a bit of "friendly (?) sparring" over 6 (or 7) letters beginning with k and ending with u. ;)

Theme song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmfudW7rbG0

Theme TV series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ovXfRndHWg_

Now back to twisted knickers .......
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:05 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:26 pm
I think we have a theme song for our board, and a theme TV series. What say you? Seems we are doing quite a bit of "friendly (?) sparring" over 6 (or 7) letters beginning with k and ending with u. ;)

Theme song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmfudW7rbG0

Theme TV series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ovXfRndHWg_

Now back to twisted knickers .......
Thanks for that Mountaineer.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by technovelist » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:07 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:36 am
Xan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 am
are you equating the use of the phrase "kung fu" with an ethnic slur?
Yes.

But only when you add in the "flu" for fu. And that you have the president of the US using it.

Let me be clear, IMO, he would not be saying it if he were not specifically targeting China/Chinese. When the virus first came around, did you see what happened to some Chinatowns, and some of the rage directed at Chinese-Americans? Why was that? Because they are physically distinguishable from white people.

Are my wife (2nd generation American, but Chinese) and kids snowflakes for thinking it is derogatory? Could it partly be because it is Trump and they hate him regardless? If Obama said it (I can't imagine he would) would they have been ok with it?

Just as much as I am running in circles trying to convince you guys it is a slur, you all are rationalizing why it isn't.

I feel isolated here. Want to ask again if anyone on this board is Asian and is ok or not with it.

I am probably super sensitive to this because my wife was not initially well received by my family because she wasn't a nice Italian girl.
You can't expect us to take you seriously when you have admitted that you don't mind that the Obama administration used it.
Or is Obama Chinese now?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:07 pm

technovelist wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:07 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:36 am
Xan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 am
are you equating the use of the phrase "kung fu" with an ethnic slur?
Yes.

But only when you add in the "flu" for fu. And that you have the president of the US using it.

Let me be clear, IMO, he would not be saying it if he were not specifically targeting China/Chinese. When the virus first came around, did you see what happened to some Chinatowns, and some of the rage directed at Chinese-Americans? Why was that? Because they are physically distinguishable from white people.

Are my wife (2nd generation American, but Chinese) and kids snowflakes for thinking it is derogatory? Could it partly be because it is Trump and they hate him regardless? If Obama said it (I can't imagine he would) would they have been ok with it?

Just as much as I am running in circles trying to convince you guys it is a slur, you all are rationalizing why it isn't.

I feel isolated here. Want to ask again if anyone on this board is Asian and is ok or not with it.

I am probably super sensitive to this because my wife was not initially well received by my family because she wasn't a nice Italian girl.
You can't expect us to take you seriously when you have admitted that you don't mind that the Obama administration used it.
Or is Obama Chinese now?
I expected no less, tech. Since we can't ever confirm or deny whether that info made it back to him and he gave it a pass, you win.

But it certainly never came out of his mouth in public. The president's words carry more weight than me having a beer with some buddies saying stupid shit.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by technovelist » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:11 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:07 pm
technovelist wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:07 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:36 am
Xan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 am
are you equating the use of the phrase "kung fu" with an ethnic slur?
Yes.

But only when you add in the "flu" for fu. And that you have the president of the US using it.

Let me be clear, IMO, he would not be saying it if he were not specifically targeting China/Chinese. When the virus first came around, did you see what happened to some Chinatowns, and some of the rage directed at Chinese-Americans? Why was that? Because they are physically distinguishable from white people.

Are my wife (2nd generation American, but Chinese) and kids snowflakes for thinking it is derogatory? Could it partly be because it is Trump and they hate him regardless? If Obama said it (I can't imagine he would) would they have been ok with it?

Just as much as I am running in circles trying to convince you guys it is a slur, you all are rationalizing why it isn't.

I feel isolated here. Want to ask again if anyone on this board is Asian and is ok or not with it.

I am probably super sensitive to this because my wife was not initially well received by my family because she wasn't a nice Italian girl.
You can't expect us to take you seriously when you have admitted that you don't mind that the Obama administration used it.
Or is Obama Chinese now?
I expected no less, tech. Since we can't ever confirm or deny whether that info made it back to him and he gave it a pass, you win.

But it certainly never came out of his mouth in public. The president's words carry more weight than me having a beer with some buddies saying stupid shit.
No one has said that Obama wasn't a skilled politician, so I'm not surprised that he wouldn't say it in public.
But it's still completely unimportant, no matter who said it.
Note that I'm not being hypocritical.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:40 pm

technovelist wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:11 pm

But it's still completely unimportant, no matter who said it.
Again, please poll any Asian friends you have that were voting for Trump and see if their attitude has changed. I could be wrong, it's not like my wife and daughter were voting Trump anyway.

It would be interesting to see if there are any Asian American specific polls before the virus became and issue and since to see if support has changed or not.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by anato » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:50 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:36 am
I feel isolated here. Want to ask again if anyone on this board is Asian and is ok or not with it.
Not Asian (I'm Italian), but my wife is Chinese. She was pretty upset when Trump first called it "Chinese virus", not because it isn't true (first reported in China), but out of fear that it might lead to bullying or bad behaviour towards Asian people here in the US.
Her reasoning was that Chinese people (at least her generation... it might be different for newer generations which are being riled up on command on government controller social media) aren't educated to fend for themselves: when they are victims of bullying they usually close down in shock and fear instead of getting pissed and punching the guy in the face. So she was afraid older Asian immigrants could unnecessarily suffer from a attitude that made sort-of legit to blame them as a group.

And btw she does agree that it was the crazy declarations of the Chinese govt officials which started the current blamegame on the virus origin, and she was _much more_ pissed with the Chinese govt for that (and so many more things, latest being they're doing now in HK while the rest of the world is all having fun cheering riots) than she was for the "Chinese virus" thing.
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:36 am
I am probably super sensitive to this because my wife was not initially well received by my family because she wasn't a nice Italian girl.
Man, just bad luck. Us, and at least 3 other couples we're friends with, here and abroad, exactly the same mix: not a problem from any parent in law :)
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