Re: Is Trump doing a good job?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:52 pm
This is an excellent point.
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The first sentence sounds like a pretty clear concept that almost no one will disagree with. The second sentence is what riled everyone up. He was apparently referring to the economic comeback according to the press, i.e. George Floyd is cheering the upswing in the Dow. Except that this tweet was made one hour before the tweets relating to the economic news so I'm not 100% clear on that.Equal justice under the law must mean that every American receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement regardless of race…Hopefully #GeorgeFloyd is looking down right now & saying this is a great thing that's happening for our country…in terms of equality"
So what about Riots do you Like? If you swung back left.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:03 pm I was left a few months ago. The virus has swung me center right. The riots and protesting have swung me a bit back left.
I want to ask the Trump supporters here, what were the optics supposed to be of him walking over to the church, holding some bible upside down for 30 seconds, and leaving?
If he paused, opened the Bible, and read an appropriate verse about loving thy neighbor or something, I would have though it hokey, but would have been ok with it.
However, I saw it as nothing more than a photo op that completely backfired on him. I know, you will say it did not backfire, the protesters were being cleared because curfew was coming up anyway,etc.
It completely tried to pander to his base, no?
I interpret his statement as saying Floyd's death was not in vain, that we'll make progress going forward as a result.WiseOne wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:10 pm What do you guys think of the latest Trump tweet that's not only made the news but also our weekly medical staff meeting, for whatever reason.
I couldn't find the actual text of the tweet, only the wide-ranging condemnation of it, but I finally managed to grab it from his twitter feed:
The first sentence sounds like a pretty clear concept that almost no one will disagree with. The second sentence is what riled everyone up. He was apparently referring to the economic comeback according to the press, i.e. George Floyd is cheering the upswing in the Dow. Except that this tweet was made one hour before the tweets relating to the economic news so I'm not 100% clear on that.Equal justice under the law must mean that every American receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement regardless of race…Hopefully #GeorgeFloyd is looking down right now & saying this is a great thing that's happening for our country…in terms of equality"
If that is the case, I assume that Trump, in his mind, was thinking that a recovered economy is helpful in general to blacks and other poor minorities because it makes it easier for them to find jobs. That is, in fact, true. It's just his crappy invocation of George Floyd (as the current poster child for poor minorities) that got him in trouble here.
Anyway I hope a good illustration of why I'm not so bothered by this stuff. I'm not the style over substance type.
Nor do I, but I really don’t want China to be the dominant nation. Maybe I’ll start a thread on it this weekend.Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:24 pmI'm not sure what you mean by "withdrawing from the world". I don't want the US to be the world police. Limited immigration according to merit, fine. Tourism, fine. Otherwise it's up to US citizens and companies how they want to relate to people and companies in other countries.dualstow wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:08 pm...Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:22 pm ...
Here are the actual facts:
https://www.investors.com/politics/comm ... -the-left/
But like a few others here, I'm more focused on his policies than his personality or personal behavior. As far as his policies go, I'm good mostly.
We've probably already discussed it, but one thing I'm worried about is our withdrawing from the world and China subsequently filling the void. Those articles are everywhere.
I am disheartened by the lack of progress in civil rights across the board, whether for color, gender, sexuality, etc.MangoMan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:49 pmCortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:03 pm I was left a few months ago.
The virus has swung me center right. This I totally get.
The riots and protesting have swung me a bit back left. This, I don't get. Please explain. If anything, the insane hypocrisy of Dem governors with the lockdowns being important, but the protests being more important made me want to scream.
Clinton also knew the Bible so he'd not have made this mistake.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:00 pmI am disheartened by the lack of progress in civil rights across the board, whether for color, gender, sexuality, etc.MangoMan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:49 pmCortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:03 pm I was left a few months ago.
The virus has swung me center right. This I totally get.
The riots and protesting have swung me a bit back left. This, I don't get. Please explain. If anything, the insane hypocrisy of Dem governors with the lockdowns being important, but the protests being more important made me want to scream.
Seems generally these types of rights are backed more by the left.
And I don’t like that Trump barely gives a crap to healing what’s going on. The stock market is much more important to him.
Shekels, that pic of Clinton was real, but it was after he came out after actually attending church. A bit different.
A bit different, I am not sure about that. It seems they both maybe Photo Ops .Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:00 pmI am disheartened by the lack of progress in civil rights across the board, whether for color, gender, sexuality, etc.MangoMan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:49 pmCortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:03 pm I was left a few months ago.
The virus has swung me center right. This I totally get.
The riots and protesting have swung me a bit back left. This, I don't get. Please explain. If anything, the insane hypocrisy of Dem governors with the lockdowns being important, but the protests being more important made me want to scream.
Seems generally these types of rights are backed more by the left.
And I don’t like that Trump barely gives a crap to healing what’s going on. The stock market is much more important to him.
Shekels, that pic of Clinton was real, but it was after he came out after actually attending church. A bit different.
I agree. Doodle, Cortopassi and others: if Xan is right (and why would he not be), then what does this tell you about mainstream media reporting??? Are you sure this isn't what's influencing you? In this case, many people are saying Trump's own words are damning, but are they really????? When they are being interpreted with this degree of latitude?Xan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:38 pmI interpret his statement as saying Floyd's death was not in vain, that we'll make progress going forward as a result.WiseOne wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:10 pm What do you guys think of the latest Trump tweet that's not only made the news but also our weekly medical staff meeting, for whatever reason.
I couldn't find the actual text of the tweet, only the wide-ranging condemnation of it, but I finally managed to grab it from his twitter feed:
The first sentence sounds like a pretty clear concept that almost no one will disagree with. The second sentence is what riled everyone up. He was apparently referring to the economic comeback according to the press, i.e. George Floyd is cheering the upswing in the Dow. Except that this tweet was made one hour before the tweets relating to the economic news so I'm not 100% clear on that.Equal justice under the law must mean that every American receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement regardless of race…Hopefully #GeorgeFloyd is looking down right now & saying this is a great thing that's happening for our country…in terms of equality"
If that is the case, I assume that Trump, in his mind, was thinking that a recovered economy is helpful in general to blacks and other poor minorities because it makes it easier for them to find jobs. That is, in fact, true. It's just his crappy invocation of George Floyd (as the current poster child for poor minorities) that got him in trouble here.
Anyway I hope a good illustration of why I'm not so bothered by this stuff. I'm not the style over substance type.
I'm going to bet that Lori Lightfoot's reign as mayor will result in conditions worsening in Chicago, including in the poor neighborhoods, not getting better.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:22 am I probably used the wrong word.
I should change the wording to I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Republicans talk about being fiscally conservative, but only when their party isn't in power. Socially, I am generally liberal, and take issue with many conservative positions socially.
I will speak to Chicago, where I grew up. Just watched the local show on PBS call Chicago Tonight the Week in Review. There was looting all over the city, esp. the south and west sides, predominantly black. They even closed Targets in the suburbs, by me, as a safety measure. It was not good, and will not help the situation going forward.
The current mayor is Lori Lightfoot, a black lesbian lady. (from that point of view imagine such a person being elected 40 years ago. Progress!) Prior to that was Rahm Emmanuel, and pretty much a few decades of Daleys with a couple misc mayors in between. I have to give her credit, she speaks her mind and doesn't take shit. It remains to be seen whether her being black helps improve that portion of the city going forward.
"We all have the same rights under the law" Sure. Let yourself believe that. In a perfect world, maybe. Not in practice. Unless all these black men as BSing everyone, they do not get treated equally, especially by police.
"If you think Life is being unfair and your "civil rights" are being abused, it may be where you live." I agree. I don't know why some of these bad areas aren't ghost towns and why people can't or are reluctant to leave.
1. I am 100% fiscally conservative. Somewhat socially liberal. Definitely don't accept the full liberal orthodoxy in this area.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:22 am I probably used the wrong word.
I should change the wording to I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Republicans talk about being fiscally conservative, but only when their party isn't in power. Socially, I am generally liberal, and take issue with many conservative positions socially.
I will speak to Chicago, where I grew up. Just watched the local show on PBS call Chicago Tonight the Week in Review. There was looting all over the city, esp. the south and west sides, predominantly black. They even closed Targets in the suburbs, by me, as a safety measure. It was not good, and will not help the situation going forward.
The current mayor is Lori Lightfoot, a black lesbian lady. (from that point of view imagine such a person being elected 40 years ago. Progress!) Prior to that was Rahm Emmanuel, and pretty much a few decades of Daleys with a couple misc mayors in between. I have to give her credit, she speaks her mind and doesn't take shit. It remains to be seen whether her being black helps improve that portion of the city going forward.
"We all have the same rights under the law" Sure. Let yourself believe that. In a perfect world, maybe. Not in practice. Unless all these black men as BSing everyone, they do not get treated equally, especially by police.
"If you think Life is being unfair and your "civil rights" are being abused, it may be where you live." I agree. I don't know why some of these bad areas aren't ghost towns and why people can't or are reluctant to leave.
Cortopassi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:22 am I probably used the wrong word.
"We all have the same rights under the law" Sure. Let yourself believe that. In a perfect world, maybe. Not in practice. Unless all these black men as BSing everyone, they do not get treated equally, especially by police.
"If you think Life is being unfair and your "civil rights" are being abused, it may be where you live." I agree. I don't know why some of these bad areas aren't ghost towns and why people can't or are reluctant to leave.
Here you can find maps from 2016 election.
Seems like a fair criticism.I Shrugged wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:16 pm Couple of comments.
Trump is a poor extemporaneous speaker.
He has good, maybe excellent problem solving and decision making instincts but can't explain things very well.
I've been doing a bit of reading lately, and it was pretty wild to me how many similarities there are between 2020 and the peri-World War I years. Would you have guessed that suffragettes in Britain prior to WW I were bombing buildings and committing a ton of arson? I'd never heard about this little piece of history. And it was just like you said, the activists' violence was not effective; they changed the laws later on as their entire society was transformed by the war. Some of them assisted draft dodgers and remained pacifists, but some totally changed once the war started and became pretty big nationalists.You can't shout or protest your way to better race relations. In fact I think that sets back the progress. Not even mentioning riots and looting. Now, all of those actions can change laws. Policing will change as a result of all of the unrest. As to how to improve relations, I think MLK and Gandhi had the right ideas.
For extra credit:
Let's realize that a lot of the violence has been instigated by the radical left, the types who want to overthrow the government, etc. They are always looking for a vehicle to hijack, and this one has been what they dream of. My point being, they've set back race relations and don't care. For them, worsening race relations is probably a net positive. Black people are often pawns in other peoples' chess games. I think it's happening now.