Is Trump doing a good job?

[stuper1]

This is an excellent point.

[Cortopassi]

I was left a few months ago. The virus has swung me center right. The riots and protesting have swung me a bit back left.

I want to ask the Trump supporters here, what were the optics supposed to be of him walking over to the church, holding some bible upside down for 30 seconds, and leaving?

If he paused, opened the Bible, and read an appropriate verse about loving thy neighbor or something, I would have though it hokey, but would have been ok with it.

However, I saw it as nothing more than a photo op that completely backfired on him. I know, you will say it did not backfire, the protesters were being cleared because curfew was coming up anyway,etc.

It completely tried to pander to his base, no?

[WiseOne]

What do you guys think of the latest Trump tweet that's not only made the news but also our weekly medical staff meeting, for whatever reason.

I couldn't find the actual text of the tweet, only the wide-ranging condemnation of it, but I finally managed to grab it from his twitter feed:

Equal justice under the law must mean that every American receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement regardless of race…Hopefully #GeorgeFloyd is looking down right now & saying this is a great thing that's happening for our country…in terms of equality"

The first sentence sounds like a pretty clear concept that almost no one will disagree with. The second sentence is what riled everyone up. He was apparently referring to the economic comeback according to the press, i.e. George Floyd is cheering the upswing in the Dow. Except that this tweet was made one hour before the tweets relating to the economic news so I'm not 100% clear on that.

If that is the case, I assume that Trump, in his mind, was thinking that a recovered economy is helpful in general to blacks and other poor minorities because it makes it easier for them to find jobs. That is, in fact, true. It's just his crappy invocation of George Floyd (as the current poster child for poor minorities) that got him in trouble here.

Anyway I hope a good illustration of why I'm not so bothered by this stuff. I'm not the style over substance type.

[shekels]

I was left a few months ago. The virus has swung me center right. The riots and protesting have swung me a bit back left.

I want to ask the Trump supporters here, what were the optics supposed to be of him walking over to the church, holding some bible upside down for 30 seconds, and leaving?

If he paused, opened the Bible, and read an appropriate verse about loving thy neighbor or something, I would have though it hokey, but would have been ok with it.

However, I saw it as nothing more than a photo op that completely backfired on him. I know, you will say it did not backfire, the protesters were being cleared because curfew was coming up anyway,etc.

It completely tried to pander to his base, no?

So what about Riots do you Like? If you swung back left.

[Xan]

What do you guys think of the latest Trump tweet that's not only made the news but also our weekly medical staff meeting, for whatever reason.

I couldn't find the actual text of the tweet, only the wide-ranging condemnation of it, but I finally managed to grab it from his twitter feed:

Equal justice under the law must mean that every American receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement regardless of race…Hopefully #GeorgeFloyd is looking down right now & saying this is a great thing that's happening for our country…in terms of equality"

The first sentence sounds like a pretty clear concept that almost no one will disagree with. The second sentence is what riled everyone up. He was apparently referring to the economic comeback according to the press, i.e. George Floyd is cheering the upswing in the Dow. Except that this tweet was made one hour before the tweets relating to the economic news so I'm not 100% clear on that.

If that is the case, I assume that Trump, in his mind, was thinking that a recovered economy is helpful in general to blacks and other poor minorities because it makes it easier for them to find jobs. That is, in fact, true. It's just his crappy invocation of George Floyd (as the current poster child for poor minorities) that got him in trouble here.

Anyway I hope a good illustration of why I'm not so bothered by this stuff. I'm not the style over substance type.

I interpret his statement as saying Floyd's death was not in vain, that we'll make progress going forward as a result.

[stuper1]

Aren't the riots and protesting happening in cities that are controlled by leftist mayors and councils? And haven't they been controlled by leftist governments for decades? If leftism has anything to offer, how come these cities aren't shining utopias by now?

Trump has nothing to do with urban policing, and he should have nothing to do with it. We don't want to live under a centralized government located thousands of miles away.

He walked out of the White House with a Bible to show that he's not a cowering wimp who's going to fall to pieces when some crazed leftists start throwing rocks. That's it. No rocket science. He knows he won't get reelected if he looks like a wimp.

[dualstow]

...
Here are the actual facts:
https://www.investors.com/politics/comm ... -the-left/

...
But like a few others here, I'm more focused on his policies than his personality or personal behavior. As far as his policies go, I'm good mostly.
We've probably already discussed it, but one thing I'm worried about is our withdrawing from the world and China subsequently filling the void. Those articles are everywhere.

I'm not sure what you mean by "withdrawing from the world". I don't want the US to be the world police. Limited immigration according to merit, fine. Tourism, fine. Otherwise it's up to US citizens and companies how they want to relate to people and companies in other countries.

Nor do I, but I really don’t want China to be the dominant nation. Maybe I’ll start a thread on it this weekend.

[Cortopassi]

I was left a few months ago.
The virus has swung me center right. This I totally get.
The riots and protesting have swung me a bit back left. This, I don't get. Please explain. If anything, the insane hypocrisy of Dem governors with the lockdowns being important, but the protests being more important made me want to scream.

I am disheartened by the lack of progress in civil rights across the board, whether for color, gender, sexuality, etc.

Seems generally these types of rights are backed more by the left.

And I don’t like that Trump barely gives a crap to healing what’s going on. The stock market is much more important to him.

Shekels, that pic of Clinton was real, but it was after he came out after actually attending church. A bit different.

[vnatale]

I was left a few months ago.
The virus has swung me center right. This I totally get.
The riots and protesting have swung me a bit back left. This, I don't get. Please explain. If anything, the insane hypocrisy of Dem governors with the lockdowns being important, but the protests being more important made me want to scream.

I am disheartened by the lack of progress in civil rights across the board, whether for color, gender, sexuality, etc.

Seems generally these types of rights are backed more by the left.

And I don’t like that Trump barely gives a crap to healing what’s going on. The stock market is much more important to him.

Shekels, that pic of Clinton was real, but it was after he came out after actually attending church. A bit different.

Clinton also knew the Bible so he'd not have made this mistake.

https://www.fox4news.com/news/donald-tr ... ity-speech

Vinny

[vnatale]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/us/p ... d=tw-share

Trump’s Approval Slips Where He Can’t Afford to Lose It: Among Evangelicals
Polls and private concerns from top social conservatives show the president’s standing with the cornerstone of his base isn’t what it used to be. A photo op with the Bible was supposed to help fix that.


President Trump at the National Prayer Breakfast in February 2019. Evangelical voters are the cornerstone of his political base.
President Trump at the National Prayer Breakfast in February 2019. Evangelical voters are the cornerstone of his political base.Credit...Doug Mills/The New York Times
Jeremy W. Peters
By Jeremy W. Peters
June 4, 2020

President Trump needs every vote he got from white evangelicals in 2016 — and then some. Hoisting a Bible in the air may not be enough.

Unnerved by his slipping poll numbers and his failure to take command of the moral and public health crises straining the country, religious conservatives have expressed concern in recent weeks to the White House and the Trump campaign about the president’s political standing.

Their rising discomfort spilled out into the open this week when the founder of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, scolded the president for taking such a belligerent tone as the country erupted in sorrow and anger over the police killing of an unarmed black man, George Floyd, in Minneapolis.

Speaking on his newscast, “The 700 Club,” the televangelist whose relationship with Mr. Trump dates to the 1990s said, “You just don’t do that, Mr. President,” and added, “We’re one race. And we need to love each other.”

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Three and a half years into the Trump presidency, Mr. Trump’s Christian conservative allies practically have a pre-written script when the time comes to defend another jaw-dropping indiscretion — bragging he was so irresistible to women that he could “grab ‘em” by their genitals; paying off a pornographic film star and a Playboy Playmate to conceal his extramarital affairs; insisting he has never asked God for forgiveness; cursing at the National Prayer Breakfast.

And for the most part, this week was not much different as Mr. Trump’s defenders on the religious right claimed they had no problem with an elaborate photo stunt in which the president had a park near the White House cleared of hundreds of peaceful protesters so he could walk across the street to a church that had been set on fire the night before and display a Bible in front of the cameras.

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“Offended? Not at all,” declared Franklin Graham, a prominent evangelical leader and the son of Rev. Billy Graham who was known as the pastor to the presidents. Writing on Facebook, Mr. Graham expressed the indignation that was common among many of the president’s supporters in religious conservative circles. “This made an important statement that what took place the night before in the burning, looting and vandalism,” he said, “had to end.”

But numerous polls have shown that like most other Americans, religious Americans increasingly disapprove of how the president is doing his job — a shift that would imperil Mr. Trump’s re-election if he is not able to reverse it.

The high marks that white evangelicals and white Catholics were giving the president earlier this year have slipped lately as the rallying effect that boosted him at the beginning of the coronavirus crisis has faded.

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Any slide with these voters — the cornerstone of his political base — is problematic. And even if voters of faith do turn out for him again in large numbers, analysts said, there may not be enough of them to help lift him to victory.

Latest Updates: George Floyd Protests Updated 15m ago
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Robert P. Jones, chief executive of the Public Religion Research Institute, noted that since 2016, the share of the American population that is white and evangelical has declined by two percentage points, to 15 percent.

In March, nearly 80 percent of white evangelicals said they approved of the job Mr. Trump was doing, PRRI found. But by the end of May, with the country convulsed by racial discord, Mr. Trump’s favorability among white evangelicals had fallen 15 percentage points to 62 percent, according to a PRRI poll released Thursday. That is consistent with declines that other surveys have picked up recently. Among white Catholics, the same poll also found that his approval has fallen by 27 points since March.

“He had an opportunity in March when people were looking to him. And then within four weeks he squandered it,” Mr. Jones said.

Even if those numbers slip more between now and Election Day, it does not necessarily spell doom for the president. In the fall of 2016, his approval rating with white evangelicals was only 61 percent. He went on to win 81 percent of them in November.

As people whose cultural and political priorities have been extremely well served by the Trump administration, many religious conservatives long ago resigned themselves to his flaws — as a president, a husband and a professed Christian. Some have come to see him as something of a divine instrument, sent by God to advance their cause.

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But with the sacred often comes the profane, which is the most awkward part of the bargain Mr. Trump struck with the religious right to cement his rise to power in the Republican Party.


ImagePat Robertson during a presidential candidate forum at Regent University in Virginia Beach in 2015.
Pat Robertson during a presidential candidate forum at Regent University in Virginia Beach in 2015.Credit...Steve Helber/Associated Press
As strange as his appeal with the faithful might seem, it is not an entirely new phenomenon. Before he entered politics, he would often receive fan mail containing Bibles and Christian books, which he kept in a room in Trump Tower that he liked to show off to visitors. He and Mr. Robertson of “The 700 Club” became friendly when Mr. Trump had a large casino business in Atlantic City and hosted a boxing match featuring Evander Holyfield, who brought along Mr. Robertson as his personal pastor.

At times, including this week, it can seem as if the determination of many on the religious right to defend the president rises with inverse proportion to how most of the rest of the nation feels.

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“Some of President Trump’s critics seem more upset about him holding a Bible at a church than they were about the vandals who nearly burned it to the ground,” Ralph Reed, the founder of the Faith & Freedom Coalition, said in a statement. (In fact, the fire was contained to a small part of the church basement.)

In an interview, Mr. Reed took issue with the criticism from some on the right like Mr. Robertson, who was Mr. Reed’s longtime mentor during their time together at the Christian Coalition. “You can’t look at the statements the president has made, the tweets he has sent out, and say that he has not expressed empathy for and revulsion at the circumstances surrounding the death of George Floyd,” Mr. Reed said.

Groups like Mr. Reed’s plan to spend tens of millions of dollars trying to identify and register new religious conservative voters while hammering a message about what they see at stake in November.

Turning their back on Mr. Trump now would likely spell defeat for the president in November, which would mean the end of a streak of legal and policy victories that conservatives have not experienced since the Reagan administration. The Supreme Court, with two Trump-appointed justices, now has an advantage that favors the right 5-4. And the president’s allies would like to see that grow in a second term so they might be able to finally realize longstanding goals like overturning Roe v. Wade and dismantling more of the regulatory apparatus that subjects businesses to government oversight.

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Victory in these battles seems within reach — as long as Mr. Trump is in the White House.

“It’s 2020, and people see it as a civilizational election on both sides,” said Frank Cannon, president of the socially conservative American Principles Project.

Lost among the backlash to Mr. Trump’s photo op at St. John’s this week was the message that many religious conservatives took from it. “Symbolically, it was more important than how he did it,” Mr. Cannon said. The next day, the president and the first lady participated in another photo op that was heavy in religious symbolism, visiting a shrine to Pope John Paul II in Washington that is owned by the conservative Catholic organization, the Knights of Columbus.

Some social conservatives had felt embattled as state and local governments closed down churches as the coronavirus spread. The raging debate over the last several weeks over whether they should be allowed to reopen has become the latest flash point in the country’s culture wars.

Despite efforts by Attorney General William P. Barr to offer legal support to churches fighting orders to remain closed, some religious conservatives felt the White House had not acted quickly enough to help and expressed their displeasure to senior administration officials, according to people aware of the conversations. Some have also raised questions with the president’s aides about whether his sinking poll numbers are a serious concern.

So when Mr. Trump marched across Lafayette Park to the scarred house of worship on Tuesday after members of the armed forces he commands swept out the demonstrators, many took that as a sign that the president was taking a defiant stand for conservative Christians.

“I think that was a moment the president was expressing, in his own way, his support for the faith community,” said Penny Nance, chief executive of Concerned Women for America. She said she wasn’t at all offended by the removal of the protesters, which involved the heavy use of force and clouds of pepper spray.

Nor did it bother her that Mr. Trump did not pray — he only raised the Bible above his head and displayed it for the cameras. “He didn’t come from our world,” Ms. Nance said. “He’s not Mike Pence.”

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Image
Protesters gathered next to St. John’s Episcopal Church outside the White House on Tuesday.
Protesters gathered next to St. John’s Episcopal Church outside the White House on Tuesday.Credit...Erin Schaff/The New York Times
But it did bother other Christian leaders, including the Episcopal bishop of Washington who oversees the church, St. John’s, who said she was outraged that Mr. Trump would use a religious gathering place as a political prop.

Noticeably absent during the president’s visit were two of the most visible religious conservatives serving in the Trump administration: Vice President Mike Pence, an evangelical Christian, and Kellyanne Conway, a Catholic who has acted as the president’s bridge to the world of activist social conservative women.

The killing of Mr. Floyd by a Minneapolis police officer has stirred up complex and often conflicting emotions among some of the president’s most stalwart supporters, who have expressed anguish over the officers’ conduct but have been less willing to acknowledge the pervasive racism that contributes to police brutality.

In 2018 when PRRI conducted a poll that asked about recent killings of black men by the police, 70 percent of white evangelicals said they were isolated incidents rather than reflective of a broader pattern.

The following year another PRRI poll asked white, evangelical Trump supporters if there was anything he could do to lose their support. Thirty-one percent of them said he could do almost anything and they still wouldn’t turn their backs on him.

Giovanni Russonello and Maggie Haberman contributed reporting.

[shekels]

I was left a few months ago.
The virus has swung me center right. This I totally get.
The riots and protesting have swung me a bit back left. This, I don't get. Please explain. If anything, the insane hypocrisy of Dem governors with the lockdowns being important, but the protests being more important made me want to scream.

I am disheartened by the lack of progress in civil rights across the board, whether for color, gender, sexuality, etc.

Seems generally these types of rights are backed more by the left.

And I don’t like that Trump barely gives a crap to healing what’s going on. The stock market is much more important to him.

Shekels, that pic of Clinton was real, but it was after he came out after actually attending church. A bit different.

A bit different, I am not sure about that. It seems they both maybe Photo Ops .
If you know what is in the persons Head/Heart then ok.

Also I might add, Picture who are the Governors /Mayors/City Officials that have been in Control of the cities that protesting is occurring.
Then ask why has it "civil right" not progressively gotten better.
My question is what are the Civil Rights you think have been lacking?
We all have the same rights under the Law.
If you think Life is being unfair and your "civil rights" are being abused, it may be where you live.

[dualstow]

I think he’s talking about other people’s civil rights, not necessarily his own.

I know that women are still often paid less than men, but I thought civil rights were pretty much granted. It’s true that Trump doesn’t seem to care about uniting our split nations, but civil rights? Which ones are missing?

[Cortopassi]

I probably used the wrong word.

I should change the wording to I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Republicans talk about being fiscally conservative, but only when their party isn't in power. Socially, I am generally liberal, and take issue with many conservative positions socially.

I will speak to Chicago, where I grew up. Just watched the local show on PBS call Chicago Tonight the Week in Review. There was looting all over the city, esp. the south and west sides, predominantly black. They even closed Targets in the suburbs, by me, as a safety measure. It was not good, and will not help the situation going forward.

The current mayor is Lori Lightfoot, a black lesbian lady. (from that point of view imagine such a person being elected 40 years ago. Progress!) Prior to that was Rahm Emmanuel, and pretty much a few decades of Daleys with a couple misc mayors in between. I have to give her credit, she speaks her mind and doesn't take shit. It remains to be seen whether her being black helps improve that portion of the city going forward.

"We all have the same rights under the law" Sure. Let yourself believe that. In a perfect world, maybe. Not in practice. Unless all these black men as BSing everyone, they do not get treated equally, especially by police.

"If you think Life is being unfair and your "civil rights" are being abused, it may be where you live." I agree. I don't know why some of these bad areas aren't ghost towns and why people can't or are reluctant to leave.

[WiseOne]

What do you guys think of the latest Trump tweet that's not only made the news but also our weekly medical staff meeting, for whatever reason.

I couldn't find the actual text of the tweet, only the wide-ranging condemnation of it, but I finally managed to grab it from his twitter feed:

Equal justice under the law must mean that every American receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement regardless of race…Hopefully #GeorgeFloyd is looking down right now & saying this is a great thing that's happening for our country…in terms of equality"

The first sentence sounds like a pretty clear concept that almost no one will disagree with. The second sentence is what riled everyone up. He was apparently referring to the economic comeback according to the press, i.e. George Floyd is cheering the upswing in the Dow. Except that this tweet was made one hour before the tweets relating to the economic news so I'm not 100% clear on that.

If that is the case, I assume that Trump, in his mind, was thinking that a recovered economy is helpful in general to blacks and other poor minorities because it makes it easier for them to find jobs. That is, in fact, true. It's just his crappy invocation of George Floyd (as the current poster child for poor minorities) that got him in trouble here.

Anyway I hope a good illustration of why I'm not so bothered by this stuff. I'm not the style over substance type.

I interpret his statement as saying Floyd's death was not in vain, that we'll make progress going forward as a result.

I agree. Doodle, Cortopassi and others: if Xan is right (and why would he not be), then what does this tell you about mainstream media reporting??? Are you sure this isn't what's influencing you? In this case, many people are saying Trump's own words are damning, but are they really????? When they are being interpreted with this degree of latitude?

Corto, I'm socially liberal as well. That used to be pretty clearly a Democrat advantage, back in the era of the "Moral Majority" and Jerry Falwell which a dark time for the Republican party, in my view. The way I see it, the Democrats and Republicans have swapped places. The Republicans are about creating the conditions for anyone to succeed regardless of race/color etc, while refraining from advocating specifically for any particular identity group. I think that is the correct approach. The Democrats on the other hand are heading in the direction of nullifying key parts of the Constitution (e.g. the first amendment) and imposing the rule of law to create a social order in which race/ethnic identities are not treated equally. I find that to be frightening. Everything that's happened recently has only reinforced my impressions.

[Libertarian666]

I probably used the wrong word.

I should change the wording to I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Republicans talk about being fiscally conservative, but only when their party isn't in power. Socially, I am generally liberal, and take issue with many conservative positions socially.

I will speak to Chicago, where I grew up. Just watched the local show on PBS call Chicago Tonight the Week in Review. There was looting all over the city, esp. the south and west sides, predominantly black. They even closed Targets in the suburbs, by me, as a safety measure. It was not good, and will not help the situation going forward.

The current mayor is Lori Lightfoot, a black lesbian lady. (from that point of view imagine such a person being elected 40 years ago. Progress!) Prior to that was Rahm Emmanuel, and pretty much a few decades of Daleys with a couple misc mayors in between. I have to give her credit, she speaks her mind and doesn't take shit. It remains to be seen whether her being black helps improve that portion of the city going forward.

"We all have the same rights under the law" Sure. Let yourself believe that. In a perfect world, maybe. Not in practice. Unless all these black men as BSing everyone, they do not get treated equally, especially by police.

"If you think Life is being unfair and your "civil rights" are being abused, it may be where you live." I agree. I don't know why some of these bad areas aren't ghost towns and why people can't or are reluctant to leave.

I'm going to bet that Lori Lightfoot's reign as mayor will result in conditions worsening in Chicago, including in the poor neighborhoods, not getting better.

My reasoning is that decades of Democrat rule of major cities have resulted in worsening conditions in the poor neighborhoods in those cities.

Maybe it's different this time.

But I see no reason to believe that.

[vnatale]

I probably used the wrong word.

I should change the wording to I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Republicans talk about being fiscally conservative, but only when their party isn't in power. Socially, I am generally liberal, and take issue with many conservative positions socially.

I will speak to Chicago, where I grew up. Just watched the local show on PBS call Chicago Tonight the Week in Review. There was looting all over the city, esp. the south and west sides, predominantly black. They even closed Targets in the suburbs, by me, as a safety measure. It was not good, and will not help the situation going forward.

The current mayor is Lori Lightfoot, a black lesbian lady. (from that point of view imagine such a person being elected 40 years ago. Progress!) Prior to that was Rahm Emmanuel, and pretty much a few decades of Daleys with a couple misc mayors in between. I have to give her credit, she speaks her mind and doesn't take shit. It remains to be seen whether her being black helps improve that portion of the city going forward.

"We all have the same rights under the law" Sure. Let yourself believe that. In a perfect world, maybe. Not in practice. Unless all these black men as BSing everyone, they do not get treated equally, especially by police.

"If you think Life is being unfair and your "civil rights" are being abused, it may be where you live." I agree. I don't know why some of these bad areas aren't ghost towns and why people can't or are reluctant to leave.

1. I am 100% fiscally conservative. Somewhat socially liberal. Definitely don't accept the full liberal orthodoxy in this area.

2. Wouldn't the answer to your question would be a complete lack of resources to leave and re-establish elsewhere? Or, if they could leave, could they get themselves somewhere that is anything better?

Vinny

[vnatale]

Capture.JPG (187.86 KiB) Viewed 5311 times

[shekels]

I probably used the wrong word.


"We all have the same rights under the law" Sure. Let yourself believe that. In a perfect world, maybe. Not in practice. Unless all these black men as BSing everyone, they do not get treated equally, especially by police.

"If you think Life is being unfair and your "civil rights" are being abused, it may be where you live." I agree. I don't know why some of these bad areas aren't ghost towns and why people can't or are reluctant to leave.

Maybe i failed to make my point.
Sure I believe people have the same rights under the Law..
If there is a Law that gives a group more rights, I would like to hear it.
The problem I think you are referring to is WHO is, or is not enforcing/encroaching on those the rights .
That boils down to people.
The police have Rules just like everyone else.
When the Rules are violated who or what are the penalties?

Example:
I know I have The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
So what does Infringed mean?

I do have a serious question if You or a Loved one are in a car that is being Vandalized.
Hit with bricks, clubs and people are trying to get into your car and you fear for your LIFE and that or your family.
Is it OK to drive away and possibly injure bystanders who are in the path.

[shekels]

Capture.JPG

If you look at voting by counties the map may look quite different.

[vnatale]

Capture.JPG

If you look at voting by counties the map may look quite different.

Look different in what way?

Vinny

[shekels]

Capture.JPG

If you look at voting by counties the map may look quite different.

Look different in what way?

Vinny

Here you can find maps from 2016 election.
This is not to say that Biden wont prevail. It is just to show what has taken place by counties/precincts
and what the media is pitching to us now.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol ... -election/

[Ad Orientem]

Capture.JPG

That map closely aligns with the polls I am seeing. That Texas and Georgia are close should be deeply alarming to team Trump.

[I Shrugged]

Couple of comments.

Trump is a poor extemporaneous speaker.
He has good, maybe excellent problem solving and decision making instincts but can't explain things very well. Think of Mayor Daley the elder. Think of how Daley would have been in the face of a relentless, hostile press, celebrities, media, mocking and all the rest. They are viciously attacking him 24/7, by the hordes. Yes, he says things that make us wince. Who wouldn't, at this point?

Damn I forgot the other one. Something that Cortopassi said. Enjoy some elevator music................

Okay, yes!
I think there has been a lot of progress in race relations. Just look back over the decades. And it will continue, but it takes time. Quite a bit of time. You can't shout or protest your way to better race relations. In fact I think that sets back the progress. Not even mentioning riots and looting. Now, all of those actions can change laws. Policing will change as a result of all of the unrest. As to how to improve relations, I think MLK and Gandhi had the right ideas.

For extra credit:
Let's realize that a lot of the violence has been instigated by the radical left, the types who want to overthrow the government, etc. They are always looking for a vehicle to hijack, and this one has been what they dream of. My point being, they've set back race relations and don't care. For them, worsening race relations is probably a net positive. Black people are often pawns in other peoples' chess games. I think it's happening now.

[Kriegsspiel]

Couple of comments.

Trump is a poor extemporaneous speaker.
He has good, maybe excellent problem solving and decision making instincts but can't explain things very well.

Seems like a fair criticism.

You can't shout or protest your way to better race relations. In fact I think that sets back the progress. Not even mentioning riots and looting. Now, all of those actions can change laws. Policing will change as a result of all of the unrest. As to how to improve relations, I think MLK and Gandhi had the right ideas.

For extra credit:
Let's realize that a lot of the violence has been instigated by the radical left, the types who want to overthrow the government, etc. They are always looking for a vehicle to hijack, and this one has been what they dream of. My point being, they've set back race relations and don't care. For them, worsening race relations is probably a net positive. Black people are often pawns in other peoples' chess games. I think it's happening now.

I've been doing a bit of reading lately, and it was pretty wild to me how many similarities there are between 2020 and the peri-World War I years. Would you have guessed that suffragettes in Britain prior to WW I were bombing buildings and committing a ton of arson? I'd never heard about this little piece of history. And it was just like you said, the activists' violence was not effective; they changed the laws later on as their entire society was transformed by the war. Some of them assisted draft dodgers and remained pacifists, but some totally changed once the war started and became pretty big nationalists.

Another thing you can see similarities in is the Bolshevik revolution in Russia. It started with popular protests and looting and police unable to get it under control, and the Bolsheviks took advantage of the unrest (as Antifa is trying to do vis-à-vis the BLM protesters), began establishing councils (soviets) for trade unions, soldiers, and police (as BLM recently accomplished in Flint). Then of course they simply took over the government from the unpopular one and then began the bloody civil war, then they started disappearing people(including the son of one of the pacifists who had optimistically moved to the USSR after the war). Recall the PV reporting on Bernie Sanders' campaign staff musing about putting conservatives in gulags.

[Kriegsspiel]

I don't think so, no.