Is Trump doing a good job?

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Xan
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Xan » Fri May 29, 2020 12:06 pm

No one is condoning the looting? Colin Kaepernick for one, and until expressly disclaimed, Nike and everybody else who's been carrying his water are endorsing the looting.

Don't see anything wrong with "when the looting starts, the shooting starts".

I've read a lot of articles about suburban women being turned off by Trump's style and that he's going to lose because of it. I'm guessing these voters will want somebody who prevents rioting and looting in the street rather than encouraging it. We'll see what happens.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by stuper1 » Fri May 29, 2020 12:20 pm

So much in life comes down to personal responsibility. Trump understands this. The left doesn't and that seems to include Twitter and the rest of social media.

If you want to label personal responsibility as white privilege, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe look in the mirror and ask who are the real racists. I'd love it if the media never used racial adjectives again. Just say that Human A did whatever to Human B. We don't need to know what color their skin is. All we need to know is what their actions were. We don't need the media trying to read their minds either.

However, if the media is going to use racial adjectives, they should do it every time. Currently, they only do it when a white person does something bad to a black person, not when the reverse happens.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 12:24 pm

And what do you think is going to happen when a couple rednecks take the president's tweet as permission to start shooting? You are going to see a race war erupt that will make 1991 in LA look like nothing. You want to ramp up the hatred and tension in this country even more, start have civilians and police shooting more black people.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 12:26 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:20 pm
So much in life comes down to personal responsibility. Trump understands this. The left doesn't and that seems to include Twitter and the rest of social media.

If you want to label personal responsibility as white privilege, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe look in the mirror and ask who are the real racists. I'd love it if the media never used racial adjectives again. Just say that Human A did whatever to Human B. We don't need to know what color their skin is. All we need to know is what their actions were. We don't need the media trying to read their minds either.

However, if the media is going to use racial adjectives, they should do it every time. Currently, they only do it when a white person does something bad to a black person, not when the reverse happens.
I don't disagree that personal responsibility matters, but you evidently have not worked around enough black people to hear the stories of what they have to endure. I have worked with many professionals who are routinely profiled for walking in the wrong neighborhoods, driving down the street, or just standing around in the wrong location.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 12:28 pm

Living in a diverse society comes at the cost of many more issues with social cohesiveness. This is a problem the Democrats ignore...diversity has upsides, but also many downsides. Either way, the president is making matters worse.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by stuper1 » Fri May 29, 2020 1:16 pm

Black professionals have to endure this kind of treatment because a large percentage of crime is done by black people. It's that simple. Even black cops treat black people with more care than they treat white people. If you want to call that racism, then fine, call it racism, but it's not going to stop. It's just cops being smart about protecting themselves. It will stop when black people as a collective whole make themselves appear to be no more threatening than white people. They are the ones who need to make that happen. I don't think that rioting and burning down buildings is helping their cause.

Believe me, if Clinton had been elected, or if Biden or another Democrat gets elected, the racial divide won't get any better than it has been under Trump. If you think Trump is making things worse, then one of those folks will make him look like a piker. If anyone knows how to use divide-and-conquer racial politics to their advantage, it's Democrats.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Tortoise » Fri May 29, 2020 1:41 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:06 pm
Don't see anything wrong with "when the looting starts, the shooting starts".
Agreed. My first impression upon reading Trump's tweet in context was that it's a warning akin to "Settle down, everyone, or you're going to hurt yourselves" rather than an attempt to incite violence. Could he have used better wording? Probably. But that's not the same thing as intending to incite violence.

We can all agree that Trump doesn't mince words. If he really wanted to incite violence, it would be painfully obvious in his tweet's wording. There would be no room for linguistic debate.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 2:16 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 1:41 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:06 pm
Don't see anything wrong with "when the looting starts, the shooting starts".
Agreed. My first impression upon reading Trump's tweet in context was that it's a warning akin to "Settle down, everyone, or you're going to hurt yourselves" rather than an attempt to incite violence. Could he have used better wording? Probably. But that's not the same thing as intending to incite violence.

We can all agree that Trump doesn't mince words. If he really wanted to incite violence, it would be painfully obvious in his tweet's wording. There would be no room for linguistic debate.
Totally disagree. His words are incendiary...like dropping gasoline on a fire. Communication matters...otherwise we could just grunt and bang each other over the head. Trump has no communicative skills. Besides, this George Floyd fellow bounced a check....the guy in the Whitehouse has defaulted on millions...if not billions of debt. I have worked with construction workers who flat up told me he refused to pay them for work they did. Honest guys these, I worked with them for years. Trump is a con man, and I'm shocked how few people are totally ok with him representing them.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Tyler » Fri May 29, 2020 2:33 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 1:41 pm
Agreed. My first impression upon reading Trump's tweet in context was that it's a warning akin to "Settle down, everyone, or you're going to hurt yourselves" rather than an attempt to incite violence. Could he have used better wording? Probably. But that's not the same thing as intending to incite violence.

Here's Trump's explanation in his own words:
"Looting leads to shooting, and that’s why a man was shot and killed in Minneapolis on Wednesday night - or look at what just happened in Louisville with 7 people shot. I don’t want this to happen, and that’s what the expression put out last night means. It was spoken as a fact, not as a statement. It’s very simple, nobody should have any problem with this other than the haters, and those looking to cause trouble on social media. Honor the memory of George Floyd!"
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 3932894208
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 2:42 pm

And that's maybe why he shouldn't communicate sensitive messages regarding situations like this over a platform like Twitter. These subjects require more than 150 characters. The man doesn't have the presence to lead us through this in any sort of unified way. His strategy is to scapegoat and pit people against one another. This is not effective leadership.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by stuper1 » Fri May 29, 2020 2:43 pm

doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 2:16 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 1:41 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:06 pm
Don't see anything wrong with "when the looting starts, the shooting starts".
Agreed. My first impression upon reading Trump's tweet in context was that it's a warning akin to "Settle down, everyone, or you're going to hurt yourselves" rather than an attempt to incite violence. Could he have used better wording? Probably. But that's not the same thing as intending to incite violence.

We can all agree that Trump doesn't mince words. If he really wanted to incite violence, it would be painfully obvious in his tweet's wording. There would be no room for linguistic debate.
Totally disagree. His words are incendiary...like dropping gasoline on a fire. Communication matters...otherwise we could just grunt and bang each other over the head. Trump has no communicative skills. Besides, this George Floyd fellow bounced a check....the guy in the Whitehouse has defaulted on millions...if not billions of debt. I have worked with construction workers who flat up told me he refused to pay them for work they did. Honest guys these, I worked with them for years. Trump is a con man, and I'm shocked how few people are totally ok with him representing them.
You don't think Clinton and Biden are con-artists?

Give us an honest, polite, conservative politician, and I'm sure we'd be happy to vote for him or her. As it is, we pick the lesser of evils. You can have a big-government con-artist (Clinton or Biden) or a possibly slightly-smaller-government con-artist (Trump).
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 2:56 pm

How does small government jibe with continued expansion of federal budget?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri May 29, 2020 3:04 pm

I'm not a fan of big government or big government budgets.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by stuper1 » Fri May 29, 2020 3:08 pm

doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 2:56 pm
How does small government jibe with continued expansion of federal budget?
So I should have voted for Clinton?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 3:16 pm

Well, the last four years has seen continued trillion dollars deficits...on top of expansionary business cycle. That and the ultra low rates are driving a lot of misallocation of capital...(I think Krieg might have posted the doordash article regarding that).

Trump deserves a lot of criticism. This isn't a Democrat vs Republican debate...this is a shitty leadership needs to be called out debate. Trump is an awful president...I don't care what your political persuasion is. From a policy standpoint some of his ideas aren't bad, it's the execution that's abysmal. You could write the greatest music in the world but if you can't play an instrument you shouldn't be on stage.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri May 29, 2020 3:25 pm

How would you say Trump is responsible for the budget deficit?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 3:25 pm

Is it not possible to objectively qualify characteristics of a shitty leader?

Would whining, scapegoating, being thin skinned, little self control or self awareness, narcissistic, penchant for exaggeration and lying, inflated sense of self, lacking compassion, and short tempered be characteristics of an effective leader?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 3:27 pm

Trump tax plan coupled with signing spending bills.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Tortoise » Fri May 29, 2020 3:30 pm

doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:16 pm
You could write the greatest music in the world but if you can't play an instrument you shouldn't be on stage.
Trump does toot his own horn pretty well.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 3:36 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:30 pm
doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:16 pm
You could write the greatest music in the world but if you can't play an instrument you shouldn't be on stage.
Trump does toot his own horn pretty well.
Kazoo I'd say...
Except when things go wrong, in which case it's everyone else's fault.

Again, I'm no Democrat. There is so much about the Democratic party I cannot stand. And I do think Bill Clinton was a rapist and Hillary was aware and complicit perhaps. I think they are shady people. But that doesn't mean that Trump is ok. You cannot justify one person's overall ineptitude by pointing at another persons shortcomings. We are talking about the president here...this shouldn't be a race to the bottom. Whatever you think bout Clinton is irrelevant. Trump is a crappy president...vote for him if you want because you have no other choice, but he should be called out daily for how crappy a leader he is. Suffering in silence is what people did in communist countries....
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Tortoise » Fri May 29, 2020 4:09 pm

doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:36 pm
You cannot justify one person's overall ineptitude by pointing at another persons shortcomings.
Isn't that what literally every politician has done for all of recorded history?
doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:36 pm
[Trump] should be called out daily for how crappy a leader he is.
He may not be a great leader, but he's definitely succeeded in shaking up parts of the system. That's exactly what a lot of Americans wanted after decades of predictably being forced to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich in every party line-toeing presidential election.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Smith1776 » Fri May 29, 2020 4:14 pm

I remember when Trump was campaigning he said that he would tackle the debt with unequivocal action. He said that if we allowed the debt to hit $22 trillion "we're going to be like Greece."

*Looks at U.S. debt*

:P
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 4:28 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 4:09 pm
doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:36 pm
You cannot justify one person's overall ineptitude by pointing at another persons shortcomings.
Isn't that what literally every politician has done for all of recorded history?

Are you a politician?
doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:36 pm
[Trump] should be called out daily for how crappy a leader he is.
He may not be a great leader, but he's definitely succeeded in shaking up parts of the system. That's exactly what a lot of Americans wanted after decades of predictably being forced to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich in every party line-toeing presidential election.
Like attempting to dismantle the system of checks and balances? Like broadening the system of executive priveledge?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by pp4me » Fri May 29, 2020 4:58 pm

doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 4:28 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 4:09 pm
doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:36 pm
You cannot justify one person's overall ineptitude by pointing at another persons shortcomings.
Isn't that what literally every politician has done for all of recorded history?

Are you a politician?
doodle wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 3:36 pm
[Trump] should be called out daily for how crappy a leader he is.
He may not be a great leader, but he's definitely succeeded in shaking up parts of the system. That's exactly what a lot of Americans wanted after decades of predictably being forced to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich in every party line-toeing presidential election.
Like attempting to dismantle the system of checks and balances? Like broadening the system of executive priveledge?
You should probably be more specific than "dismantling the system of checks and balances" and "broadening the system of executive privilege" if you are trying to warn us about what a second term for Trump would be like as opposed to Biden because those are pretty meaningless and vague statements, just like calling Trump a "racist", "mysogonist", "homophobe" etc. etc.

Your fellow liberals and democrats (just assuming that refers to you though you can correct me if I'm wrong), do provide specifics, much to their credit, which I really do appreciate. Reparations for slavery, open borders, no enforcement of immigration laws, shutdown ICE, shut down the oil pipeline permanently, shut down all coal mining and fracking, provide health care for illegal immigrants, a possible return to forced busing for integration (assuming Kamala Harris is the VP choice). I could go on and on and on but you probably get the point.

So what are the specific things you think Trump will do in a second administration that should cause us to vote against him as opposed to voting for Joe Biden and company? If you think all of those things I listed above are good ideas that you support, please go ahead and say so.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by doodle » Fri May 29, 2020 5:22 pm

Have you read what I wrote? Where did I write that I support Democratic party policies? I'm not engaging in a two party political debate. The title of the thread is "Is trump doing a good job" . The answer to that question is no. He has some good policy ideas....but his implementation is abysmal. He is an intolerable thin skinned blowhard troll. How is it not completely evident how poorly he does as a leader? His method is to pit people against one another in turn corroding any potential for bipartisan cooperation on big issues.
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