Is Trump doing a good job?

[shekels]

But hes a libertarian who's going to restore sound money

Sound Money,
Look where sound money got J.F.K.

[jhogue]

I like what Trump does better than I like what he says.

As for Biden, I can't stand what he says or what he does.

[doodle]

I like what Trump does better than I like what he says.

As for Biden, I can't stand what he says or what he does.

What a politician does is much more important than what he says.
This is partly because they say a lot of things that they don't do.
Trump is considerably less guilty in this regard than typical politicians; he has actually tried to keep quite a few of his promises.

It's not what he does, it's how he does it. As I said, I agree with a lot of his broad policy, but his style of implementation is so divisive and destructive that it is a net negative. Trump is undermining our ability to have calm rational debate and it is whipping both sides of political spectrum in hysteria. That is much more dangerous to the health of our nation than any particular issue you might agree with. He is cancerous to dialogue...and we need sane factually based rational dialogue if we hope to solve our issues as a nation.

[doodle]

To start, his bullying...calling people losers, pencilnecks, mocking them, drawing attention to their height or weight..making false accusations against people or statements about how they should be locked up without any regard for die process... go back and rewatch the Republican primaries from 2016. Basically, he behaves like a guest on Jerry Springer show.

[Libertarian666]

To start, his bullying...calling people losers, pencilnecks, mocking them, drawing attention to their height or weight..making false accusations against people or statements about how they should be locked up without any regard for die process... go back and rewatch the Republican primaries from 2016. Basically, he behaves like a guest on Jerry Springer show.

He wasn't President in 2016. Got anything from his actual Presidency?

[Cortopassi]

To start, his bullying...calling people losers, pencilnecks, mocking them, drawing attention to their height or weight..making false accusations against people or statements about how they should be locked up without any regard for die process... go back and rewatch the Republican primaries from 2016. Basically, he behaves like a guest on Jerry Springer show.

He wasn't President in 2016. Got anything from his actual Presidency?

You're kidding, right, tech?

One of a million sites cataloging Trump’s mocking, bullying, belittling tweets.

https://www.indy100.com/article/trump-t ... an-9211061

I know you’ll say those people attacked first. Well, how about dead John McCain? Still goes after him!

How about the very fine people on both sides in Charlottesville?

I do not like the man. And you give him a pass on basically everything. That’s fine, we can disagree.

I still stand by my opinion that making rally attendees sign a waiver is hypocritical. It is sad that wearing a mask has become political. One effing statement from him, along the lines of his taking hydroxycloroquine, What Do You Have To Lose,,,by wearing a mask? Won’t do it. Why the eff not?

Will be interesting to see the percent of rally goers wearing a mask. I bet it becomes even more political, and you will see virtually none wearing. Just stupid, even if it helps a little bit.

[Ad Orientem]

John Bolton: Donald Trump asked Theresa May if Britain had nuclear weapons, said invading Venezuela would be 'cool' and it was 'really part of the U.S.,' and thought Finland was in Russia

Source...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ussia.html

[Cortopassi]

To start, his bullying...calling people losers, pencilnecks, mocking them, drawing attention to their height or weight..making false accusations against people or statements about how they should be locked up without any regard for die process... go back and rewatch the Republican primaries from 2016. Basically, he behaves like a guest on Jerry Springer show.

He wasn't President in 2016. Got anything from his actual Presidency?

You're kidding, right, tech?

One of a million sites cataloging Trump’s mocking, bullying, belittling tweets.

https://www.indy100.com/article/trump-t ... an-9211061

I know you’ll say those people attacked first. Well, how about dead John McCain? Still goes after him!

John McCain helped the "Russian collusion" hoax out quite a bit. If someone had tried to destroy your life by spreading lies about you to the FBI, would you be charitable toward him even after his death? I wouldn't.

How about the very fine people on both sides in Charlottesville?

That is also a hoax. Here's what he actually said:

---------
“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

After another question at that press conference, Trump became even more explicit:

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 39815.html
---------

I'll assume that you are a victim of this hoax rather than intentionally spreading it while knowing it is a hoax. Therefore you should be grateful to be disabused of this incorrect belief.
Right?

I'll give those to you, no problem!

Can you comment on my other portion, about the masks?

"I still stand by my opinion that making rally attendees sign a waiver is hypocritical. It is sad that wearing a mask has become political. One effing statement from him, along the lines of his taking hydroxycloroquine, What Do You Have To Lose,,,by wearing a mask? Won’t do it. Why the eff not?"

I still don't get the mask thing. It really almost seems to be more of a macho thing. Look at these guys. From all over the country I assume, for the signing, no separation, no masks. I don't get it.

If there is a bad second wave, that one, tech, is all on Trump. You can say, well the WHO/CDC first said masks don't do anything, but they changed. Trump did not. If they stop one cough, one sneeze, one piece of spittle from infecting someone else, it did the job. What am I not getting about Trump and masks?

Saturday will be fun to watch, for sure.

[Ad Orientem]

John Bolton: Donald Trump asked Theresa May if Britain had nuclear weapons, said invading Venezuela would be 'cool' and it was 'really part of the U.S.,' and thought Finland was in Russia

Source...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ussia.html

I'm shocked that someone with a known bad temper who was fired from his job would criticize his prior boss.
And of course someone like that always tells the truth!

The problem is that this is not an outlier. Trump has by far the highest turnover in senior staff of any president and a lot of them are saying the same or similar things. I am not a fan of Bolton at all. But I don't for one second think he is making things up. The man maybe a hardcore neo-imperialist warmonger, but he is not a liar. He has mountains of notes and memoranda that he took and kept to back his claims up. It's also telling that the DOJ is trying to shut down the publication of the book on grounds of divulging classified information, not that his claims are false.

[stuper1]

I don't think the DOJ can shut down a publication for having false claims. We have this thing called the First Amendment. It's a pretty high bar to get over.

Bolton will say anything that will advance militarism. If he's against Trump, that's a very good sign that Trump is doing something right.

[flyingpylon]

I don't think the DOJ can shut down a publication for having false claims. We have this thing called the First Amendment. It's a pretty high bar to get over.

Bolton will say anything that will advance militarism. If he's against Trump, that's a very good sign that Trump is doing something right.

Exactly. And it's not just Bolton. The generals who are attacking Trump (which by the way is illegal even for retired officers) are probably also animated by the same motives.

It’s The Swamp protecting its way of life.

[doodle]

John Bolton: Donald Trump asked Theresa May if Britain had nuclear weapons, said invading Venezuela would be 'cool' and it was 'really part of the U.S.,' and thought Finland was in Russia

Source...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ussia.html

I'm shocked that someone with a known bad temper who was fired from his job would criticize his prior boss.
And of course someone like that always tells the truth!

The problem is that this is not an outlier. Trump has by far the highest turnover in senior staff of any president and a lot of them are saying the same or similar things. I am not a fan of Bolton at all. But I don't for one second think he is making things up. The man maybe a hardcore neo-imperialist warmonger, but he is not a liar. He has mountains of notes and memoranda that he took and kept to back his claims up. It's also telling that the DOJ is trying to shut down the publication of the book on grounds of divulging classified information, not that his claims are false.

Exactly! It's not just one senior official, it is literally dozens of them. Including Michael Cohen and people that worked for him in a non governmental capacity prior to taking office. His entire career is full of lawsuits. As I said , I worked with honest contractors who he literally told to take a hike after they spent months working on his projects. The man is a f*#*#*# scumbag. How much more evidence do you need? It's like he's the OJ Simpson for angry white men. But I guess it like he said, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters,” ...that's not a fake quote, he actually wrote that shit...why would you think that anything else that John Bolton, or the thousand of other people suing him are saying is outlandish? Trump is literally the Messiah for angry disgruntled outraged people everywhere....and there is plenty of anger. It's like his outbursts provide some catatonic vicarious release for grumpy people everywhere who have had a wife cheat on them, or a boss take advantage of them, or their friends stop calling them. Trump will take your anger, give it voice and set you free. The Messiah has returned...and he is not black or white...he is orange !

[doodle]

AdOrientem,

Does Trump change your opinions as a Monarchist? I can only imagine how capricious and unhinged a leader like Trump would be if given complete free reign to rule in whatever fashion he saw fit. We certainly wouldn't be discussing John Bolton or any of his senior advisors dissent if Trump were to be appointed by God...(although it seems like that would please many on this forum)..they would have long since been fed to the sharks before we even heard a peep.

[Cortopassi]

There is indeed a problem. You now know you have been lied to about some very significant facts.
When someone does that to me, I don't believe anything else they say.
Have you stopped believing the people who have been lying to you?

You still haven't answered about the masks.

I know we get passed crappy data. Look at the standard American diet and how that has done nothing but make us more obese and sick.

Let me put words into your mouth -- the virus is overblown and masks aren't necessary? I do not differ significantly from that position! I have evolved over the past 3 months.

But, he is the leader of the US. I would have no problem if he just comes out and says live your lives, open up and protect the vulnerable. But he's been pretty silent, letting his experts call the shots, and jab them a bit when he's not happy with them. They say wear masks, he doesn't. They say hydroxy doesn't work, he takes it. Signs documents with people surrounding him with no distancing. WTF?

A shitty leadership style for government. Might have worked in the private world where he wrote the checks and all he got was Yes Sir.

[WiseOne]

No one is going to defend Trump's impulsive, uninformed outbursts. And even though John Bolton isn't exactly an unimpeachable source (I seem to remember his being excoriated by Democrats as someone not to be trusted back when Bush made him his UN ambassador), I don't doubt that at least some of the facts he reports are true.

But, I have a hard time reconciling the picture of him being painted by the media with his accomplishments and strong work ethic. You don't manage to do what he's done if you're as mentally off the rails as he's being portrayed. In my medical research career, I've learned to be wary of "proven" facts that don't pass what I call the sniff test. It's too easy to manipulate statistics and make inaccurate leaps of logic - and it's even easier to manipulate opinion in response to a brief sound bite.

FWIW, I've investigated the source of many of the media's reports about Trump's latest Twitter outbursts. About 20% of them are fair critiques. Mostly it's the ones where he lashes out at someone, like the Iranian guy who lost a child in the military who spoke at the Democratic convention, the John McCain incident. The other 80% are blatant and probably intentional misrepresentations. I highly recommend doing that before you come to any conclusions. It's not that hard to go to his Twitter feed and read the tweet in question, takes just a few seconds.

[Cortopassi]

I just went through a Zoom meeting for marching band last night. The kids are still prohibited from practicing, even though we can easily be social distanced, and for much of the practicing can be masked. Football? Half Time? Competitions? All in limbo, likely not to happen.

Yet protests and the upcoming Trump rally can happen with basically a shrug. All a load of bullshit. Double, triple, quadruple standards, inconsistent standards, etc. This is getting really old.

He's not off the rails. He's just mentally wired different from most of us. Some people like that. I have learned to hate it. I want a smart, humble, compassionate president. He might be smart in certain respects, but he is certainly not the other two.

Yes, dammit, at this point I want Jimmy Carter.

[Mountaineer]

I just went through a Zoom meeting for marching band last night. The kids are still prohibited from practicing, even though we can easily be social distanced, and for much of the practicing can be masked. Football? Half Time? Competitions? All in limbo, likely not to happen.

Yet protests and the upcoming Trump rally can happen with basically a shrug. All a load of bullshit. Double, triple, quadruple standards, inconsistent standards, etc. This is getting really old.

He's not off the rails. He's just mentally wired different from most of us. Some people like that. I have learned to hate it. I want a smart, humble, compassionate president. He might be smart in certain respects, but he is certainly not the other two.

Yes, dammit, at this point I want Jimmy Carter.

I'd rather just have the honey roasted peanuts that Carter enabled, maybe even some Iranian flatbread with a healthy dose of garlic and poppy seeds. And watch Top Gun. Or a Halmark movie. Or Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Or Platoon, or Gone With the Wind, or Full Metal Jacket, or Ben Hur. This reality TV-like stuff that constantly shows us our sin, and the sins of others (which is far easier to swallow rather than peer into the mirror at ourselves and realize we are the problem), is for the unrepentant, the numb of mind, those with TDS or BDS, and the utopian desires of many. I think I'll have a beer now. It's 5 o'clock somewhere.

[Cortopassi]

I just demonstrated that you personally have bought a completely false narrative about his statements about Charlottesville.
And that is far from the only example. There are literally dozens of times that the media have taken something he said and made it sound terrible, where if you read or listen to what he actually said you would realize they are deceiving you.

I hope that helps.

The fact that there have to be gyrations at all to convince people Trump wasn't actually talking about the neo-Nazis is a problem by itself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -truthers/

Yes, Washington Post, but why wouldn't someone believe them vs. Breitbart or Real Clear Politics?

He may have meant it the way he said it, but we really don't know and since it wasn't crystal clear, it is his own choice of words that caused the issue.

[vnatale]

Speaking of masks....

Yesterday I went to a Defund Police rally in the town next to me. I went for a few reasons. One was an opportunity to take pictures of people outdoors. Had not really done that since last October. The other was to listen to what was said.

There were a lot less people there than I'd anticipated from reading about the sizes of a prior rally there and another that had taken place in my town.

I'd estimate there were about 150 of us on the town common.

EVERY single person was wearing a mask. Some people lowered them when they were speaking on the microphone (which I did not see getting sanitized as it was getting passed around). Others kept their masks fully on while speaking through the microphone.

Some people were fairly close to one another while most seemed to be practicing some form of physical distancing? Me? I certainly did not stay six feet away from anyone but was maintaining a three foot distance. Somewhat similar to being in a grocery store.

Shortly after the meeting started I realized that the woman who had been standing 3 feet ahead of me was the town's mayor! I was just seeing the back side of her and knew it was her once she went up to talk on the microphone and first stated who she was.

I did not once hear anyone cough or sneeze.

I was anticipating that there would be a fair amount of Afro-Americans there. Instead, I'd say there were no more than 5% (tops) with the 95% balance being white. I guess that should not be surprising given that it was stated at the rally that our county is only 1% Afro-American. If true that would mean there are only 300 total in the county.

And, would further mean that I know not a small percentage of them given that our basketball group is 40% minority, with most of that minority being Afro-Americans. One night one of them (who until that time I did not know was Afro-American (he's half)) yelled out to me, "Vinny! Why do you get all the Afro-Americans on your team??!!" One possible response is that because of the extreme ballast I bring to any basketball team it needs a lot of other talent to counteract my effect on the team!

One last description of the crowd is that I'd say it was far more on the younger side than it was on the older side.

Finally, getting back to the mask. It was fairly warm out for this rally that started at 4 PM and was to go to 6 PM. But by about 5 PM I was getting quite annoyed by the hot air being generated by my nose and being kept confined in that area. That led me to continually be lifting up the bottom of my mask with my right hand so as to allow the emerging breathes to escape through the bottom opening I'd created rather than continuing to be confined and annoying me. Was doing that all against all the rules of Masks 101?

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

Let me put words into your mouth -- the virus is overblown and masks aren't necessary? I do not differ significantly from that position! I have evolved over the past 3 months.

Please elaborate: Are you saying that you don't now think masks are necessary? Why not? And what has changed your mind over the last 3 months?

My opinion:
--The virus is bad, but as with some years of flu that hit young more sometimes and old others, this one seems to hit older people with underlying conditions more. So far, in total numbers, (please correct me if I am wrong) this virus is about as bad as a pretty bad flu year. And considering the flu has vaccines every year, you could probably extend that to say it might not even be as bad as a bad flu year would be if a vaccine didn't blunt some of that flu. ***If I offend anyone and you think I'm talking out of my ass here, sorry.
--Given that, for whatever reason, we decided to overblow the response. Instead of safeguarding those most at risk, we locked everyone down. That is going to be shown to have been a mistake.
--Barring all that, I have no problem wearing a mask. If it makes others more comfortable, it is a small price to pay. I am not being trampled on by the state, and having my freedoms removed one by one by being asked to wear a mask. Those who equate this with prying my gun out of my cold dead hands are overblowing that aspect.
--As a side benefit, no one in my family has been sick since before March. That is really atypical. So the masks must be doing something.

I think what has mainly made me evolve is the BS shifting of the goalposts by government officials. Setting numbers for groups and spacing that seem generally pulled out of asses. Seeing the breathless reporting on the states where cases are increasing but not a peep about IL for example, where we've crushed it down. Saying we have to get to an "effective" treatment or vaccine to fully open again (what is effective? Pretty nebulous)

The engineer in me finds all this shifting and ass pulling of numbers very disturbing. We wanted to flatten the curve. We did. Now open the eff back up.

I went from scared, to scared for my parents, to depressed, to pissed that my kids had their spring semesters screwed to super pissed it is still possibly affecting fall semesters.

As for Trump, I would be more inclined to be positive about his position on masks if he came out and gave some solid reasons (which as least somewhat exist) on why masks aren't really that effective. And I would reference this terribly long Denninger piece: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239530

[Cortopassi]

I would like to ask any mask wearers who wear the masks around with their nose exposed -- what's the point of that? I see it all the time in stores. If you're going to bother with a mask cover your nose too!

[Mountaineer]

I would like to ask any mask wearers who wear the masks around with their nose exposed -- what's the point of that? I see it all the time in stores. If you're going to bother with a mask cover your nose too!

.


Maybe you can have some of these printed and pass them out to the exposed nosers.

.

IMG_0505.jpeg (60.91 KiB) Viewed 5121 times

[doodle]

Let me put words into your mouth -- the virus is overblown and masks aren't necessary? I do not differ significantly from that position! I have evolved over the past 3 months.

Please elaborate: Are you saying that you don't now think masks are necessary? Why not? And what has changed your mind over the last 3 months?

My opinion:
--The virus is bad, but as with some years of flu that hit young more sometimes and old others, this one seems to hit older people with underlying conditions more. So far, in total numbers, (please correct me if I am wrong) this virus is about as bad as a pretty bad flu year. And considering the flu has vaccines every year, you could probably extend that to say it might not even be as bad as a bad flu year would be if a vaccine didn't blunt some of that flu. ***If I offend anyone and you think I'm talking out of my ass here, sorry.
--Given that, for whatever reason, we decided to overblow the response. Instead of safeguarding those most at risk, we locked everyone down. That is going to be shown to have been a mistake.
--Barring all that, I have no problem wearing a mask. If it makes others more comfortable, it is a small price to pay. I am not being trampled on by the state, and having my freedoms removed one by one by being asked to wear a mask. Those who equate this with prying my gun out of my cold dead hands are overblowing that aspect.
--As a side benefit, no one in my family has been sick since before March. That is really atypical. So the masks must be doing something.

I think what has mainly made me evolve is the BS shifting of the goalposts by government officials. Setting numbers for groups and spacing that seem generally pulled out of asses. Seeing the breathless reporting on the states where cases are increasing but not a peep about IL for example, where we've crushed it down. Saying we have to get to an "effective" treatment or vaccine to fully open again (what is effective? Pretty nebulous)

The engineer in me finds all this shifting and ass pulling of numbers very disturbing. We wanted to flatten the curve. We did. Now open the eff back up.

I went from scared, to scared for my parents, to depressed, to pissed that my kids had their spring semesters screwed to super pissed it is still possibly affecting fall semesters.

As for Trump, I would be more inclined to be positive about his position on masks if he came out and gave some solid reasons (which as least somewhat exist) on why masks aren't really that effective. And I would reference this terribly long Denninger piece: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239530

Isn't this virus at least one or two orders of magnitude more infectious than common flu and isn't at least a couple of orders of magnitude more deadly? From what I've heard from some people who've caught it, it's been a much more arduous recovery.

[Cortopassi]

Let me put words into your mouth -- the virus is overblown and masks aren't necessary? I do not differ significantly from that position! I have evolved over the past 3 months.

Please elaborate: Are you saying that you don't now think masks are necessary? Why not? And what has changed your mind over the last 3 months?

My opinion:
--The virus is bad, but as with some years of flu that hit young more sometimes and old others, this one seems to hit older people with underlying conditions more. So far, in total numbers, (please correct me if I am wrong) this virus is about as bad as a pretty bad flu year. And considering the flu has vaccines every year, you could probably extend that to say it might not even be as bad as a bad flu year would be if a vaccine didn't blunt some of that flu. ***If I offend anyone and you think I'm talking out of my ass here, sorry.
--Given that, for whatever reason, we decided to overblow the response. Instead of safeguarding those most at risk, we locked everyone down. That is going to be shown to have been a mistake.
--Barring all that, I have no problem wearing a mask. If it makes others more comfortable, it is a small price to pay. I am not being trampled on by the state, and having my freedoms removed one by one by being asked to wear a mask. Those who equate this with prying my gun out of my cold dead hands are overblowing that aspect.
--As a side benefit, no one in my family has been sick since before March. That is really atypical. So the masks must be doing something.

I think what has mainly made me evolve is the BS shifting of the goalposts by government officials. Setting numbers for groups and spacing that seem generally pulled out of asses. Seeing the breathless reporting on the states where cases are increasing but not a peep about IL for example, where we've crushed it down. Saying we have to get to an "effective" treatment or vaccine to fully open again (what is effective? Pretty nebulous)

The engineer in me finds all this shifting and ass pulling of numbers very disturbing. We wanted to flatten the curve. We did. Now open the eff back up.

I went from scared, to scared for my parents, to depressed, to pissed that my kids had their spring semesters screwed to super pissed it is still possibly affecting fall semesters.

As for Trump, I would be more inclined to be positive about his position on masks if he came out and gave some solid reasons (which as least somewhat exist) on why masks aren't really that effective. And I would reference this terribly long Denninger piece: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239530

Isn't this virus at least one or two orders of magnitude more infectious than common flu and isn't at least a couple of orders of magnitude more deadly? From what I've heard from some people who've caught it, it's been a much more arduous recovery.

doodle, I don't want to downplay the severity. I want to question the response of lockdowns. See the graph below. For the 1957 and 1968 flu seasons, if you normalize to current population, the 1957 one would have killed about 230,000 people and the 1968 one about 159,000. I don't pretend to know the history, but I assume we did not lock down the economy during those times.

If there is a next time, or a second wave, the vulnerable population needs to be taken care of, but I cannot for a minute imagine the country and states will stand for another lockdown to the level we did/are in. If we didn't destroy enough small businesses already, we surely will if we do this again.

[doodle]

I agree, the lockdowns were probably a mistake and things could have been handled better by focusing efforts on vulnerable population. However, I don't think one can just look at all these past pandemic flu strains and say this one would have been on par with them without also knowing how deadly and infectious each one was. Perhaps without any measures taken this would have killed over half a million Americans...tough to say without engaging the science. The CDC and the rest of the world seemed to think it was dangerous enough to warrant our response .