Is Trump doing a good job?

[doodle]

I'm curious where the fundamental difference in perspective lies when two people evaluate Trump. How can two supposedly rational human beings with similar cultural backgrounds have such a amazing wide difference of opinion regarding the presidency of Trump? That to me is so strange. Im not comparing him to Hitler , but there seem to be similarities in the way he had extremely fervent supporters as well as people who saw him as the Antichrist. How can one individual be seen in such different lights?

[doodle]

Honestly, this discussion provides further evidence to me that humans are incapable of living in a diverse society. We are still too tribal and group oriented and incapable of objective analysis to get along effectively in diverse groups. Maybe there are some beneficial balancing effects that come from diversity that I'm overlooking however...but it sure comes at the expense of a very contentious atmosphere

[doodle]

For example, it is completely obvious that Trump displays nascent fascist tendencies. I can not for the life of me understand how this is not completely obvious to anyone that is paying attention. I guess we could argue the benefits and drawbacks of fascism, but to literally say they can't see the stripes on the zebra to me is mind boggling.

[doodle]

I'm curious where the fundamental difference in perspective lies when two people evaluate Trump. How can two supposedly rational human beings with similar cultural backgrounds have such a amazing wide difference of opinion regarding the presidency of Trump? That to me is so strange. Im not comparing him to Hitler , but there seem to be similarities in the way he had extremely fervent supporters as well as people who saw him as the Antichrist. How can one individual be seen in such different lights?

...propaganda...
to much media and no critical thinking

the left eats up propaganda and thinks he is "like Hitler" "fascist"
the right eats up pandering and believes republican politicians when they claim to have rational values.

trump breaks the mold an follows through on promises, it generates enthusiasm among a lot of republicans and independents who fundamentally understand that politics = lies and he is doing something different..

Simon,

How do you marry what you just wrote to the fact that Trump lies more than any other politician? Unless of course you believe there is no objective truth anymore...

[Cortopassi]

Hypocrisy everywhere.

"Trump campaign asks supporters to sign coronavirus waiver ahead of rally"

[doodle]

Also, do you disagree that he displays fascist tendencies?

...propaganda..
trump exaggerates, and shoots his mouth off, and oversimplifies to the point of making statements that are impossible to pin down his meaning (and easily twisted) -- lies more than any other politician ?? have you ever heard Nancy or Hilary or 97% of our elected officials speak?

i see no fascist tenancies, but then i cut the cord on mainstream media years ago, so i only subject my self to the nonsense they spout on rare occasions for amusement..

[Xan]

Hypocrisy everywhere.

"Trump campaign asks supporters to sign coronavirus waiver ahead of rally"

I'm also not sure where the hypocracy is here. But what's scary is the new precedent being set (not by this one event, but in general). It has never, ever been considered the default that you are guaranteed to not contract an infectious disease at an event. There has never before been a right to not get sick. If all this brouhaha establishes such a right, with liability falling on organizers of anything and everything, then the consequences will be devastating and outrageous.

[Cortopassi]

Hypocrisy everywhere.

"Trump campaign asks supporters to sign coronavirus waiver ahead of rally"

Sorry, but what is the hypocrisy you are referring to?

Going from basically the virus is going to disappear, to never wearing a mask, but now requiring rally attendees to sign a waiver, to pulling West Point cadets back from home and quarantining for two weeks and wearing masks, so he can have a TV visual, And who for sure won’t be wearing a mask.

If it’s not hypocrisy, it is do as I say not as as I do. Or at least do as my experts say, but I don’t really listen to them. But I don’t want to get sued, so here sign this. If you die, not my fault.

[Cortopassi]

Hypocrisy everywhere.

"Trump campaign asks supporters to sign coronavirus waiver ahead of rally"

I'm also not sure where the hypocracy is here. But what's scary is the new precedent being set (not by this one event, but in general). It has never, ever been considered the default that you are guaranteed to not contract an infectious disease at an event. There has never before been a right to not get sick. If all this brouhaha establishes such a right, with liability falling on organizers of anything and everything, then the consequences will be devastating and outrageous.

Totally agree. If you are going to the rally, in this environment, you personally should be accountable if you get the virus, and not be allowed to sue anyone regardless. There should be no piece of paper even needed.

[vnatale]

Hypocrisy everywhere.

"Trump campaign asks supporters to sign coronavirus waiver ahead of rally"

Sorry, but what is the hypocrisy you are referring to?

Going from basically the virus is going to disappear, to never wearing a mask, but now requiring rally attendees to sign a waiver, to pulling West Point cadets back from home and quarantining for two weeks and wearing masks, so he can have a TV visual, And who for sure won’t be wearing a mask.

If it’s not hypocrisy, it is do as I say not as as I do. Or at least do as my experts say, but I don’t really listen to them. But I don’t want to get sued, so here sign this. If you die, not my fault.

Did any of you watch the West Point Ceremony today? I watched / listened to most of it. I was impressed that Trump seemingly stood for what seemed like an hour and one-half straight as each cadet got his or her name read as they approached the stage. They were maintaining their six foot distances from one another but then I saw some of them hugging one another after the hats were thrown in the air.

Trump's speech was not bad, grading by his standards.

Vinny

[doodle]

I don't think Trump is mentally deficient ...I think he has personality defects that make him an ineffective leader....volatile, capricious, self absorbed, narcissistic, thin skinned, a penchant for blame instead of taking responsibility, and a seeming lack of empathy. He is also a divisive and angry person which doesn't set a good tone for the country.

[boglerdude]

But hes a libertarian who's going to restore sound money

[shekels]

But hes a libertarian who's going to restore sound money

Sound Money,
Look where sound money got J.F.K.

[jhogue]

I like what Trump does better than I like what he says.

As for Biden, I can't stand what he says or what he does.

[doodle]

I like what Trump does better than I like what he says.

As for Biden, I can't stand what he says or what he does.

What a politician does is much more important than what he says.
This is partly because they say a lot of things that they don't do.
Trump is considerably less guilty in this regard than typical politicians; he has actually tried to keep quite a few of his promises.

It's not what he does, it's how he does it. As I said, I agree with a lot of his broad policy, but his style of implementation is so divisive and destructive that it is a net negative. Trump is undermining our ability to have calm rational debate and it is whipping both sides of political spectrum in hysteria. That is much more dangerous to the health of our nation than any particular issue you might agree with. He is cancerous to dialogue...and we need sane factually based rational dialogue if we hope to solve our issues as a nation.

[doodle]

To start, his bullying...calling people losers, pencilnecks, mocking them, drawing attention to their height or weight..making false accusations against people or statements about how they should be locked up without any regard for die process... go back and rewatch the Republican primaries from 2016. Basically, he behaves like a guest on Jerry Springer show.

[Libertarian666]

To start, his bullying...calling people losers, pencilnecks, mocking them, drawing attention to their height or weight..making false accusations against people or statements about how they should be locked up without any regard for die process... go back and rewatch the Republican primaries from 2016. Basically, he behaves like a guest on Jerry Springer show.

He wasn't President in 2016. Got anything from his actual Presidency?

[Cortopassi]

To start, his bullying...calling people losers, pencilnecks, mocking them, drawing attention to their height or weight..making false accusations against people or statements about how they should be locked up without any regard for die process... go back and rewatch the Republican primaries from 2016. Basically, he behaves like a guest on Jerry Springer show.

He wasn't President in 2016. Got anything from his actual Presidency?

You're kidding, right, tech?

One of a million sites cataloging Trump’s mocking, bullying, belittling tweets.

https://www.indy100.com/article/trump-t ... an-9211061

I know you’ll say those people attacked first. Well, how about dead John McCain? Still goes after him!

How about the very fine people on both sides in Charlottesville?

I do not like the man. And you give him a pass on basically everything. That’s fine, we can disagree.

I still stand by my opinion that making rally attendees sign a waiver is hypocritical. It is sad that wearing a mask has become political. One effing statement from him, along the lines of his taking hydroxycloroquine, What Do You Have To Lose,,,by wearing a mask? Won’t do it. Why the eff not?

Will be interesting to see the percent of rally goers wearing a mask. I bet it becomes even more political, and you will see virtually none wearing. Just stupid, even if it helps a little bit.

[Ad Orientem]

John Bolton: Donald Trump asked Theresa May if Britain had nuclear weapons, said invading Venezuela would be 'cool' and it was 'really part of the U.S.,' and thought Finland was in Russia

Source...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ussia.html

[Cortopassi]

To start, his bullying...calling people losers, pencilnecks, mocking them, drawing attention to their height or weight..making false accusations against people or statements about how they should be locked up without any regard for die process... go back and rewatch the Republican primaries from 2016. Basically, he behaves like a guest on Jerry Springer show.

He wasn't President in 2016. Got anything from his actual Presidency?

You're kidding, right, tech?

One of a million sites cataloging Trump’s mocking, bullying, belittling tweets.

https://www.indy100.com/article/trump-t ... an-9211061

I know you’ll say those people attacked first. Well, how about dead John McCain? Still goes after him!

John McCain helped the "Russian collusion" hoax out quite a bit. If someone had tried to destroy your life by spreading lies about you to the FBI, would you be charitable toward him even after his death? I wouldn't.

How about the very fine people on both sides in Charlottesville?

That is also a hoax. Here's what he actually said:

---------
“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

After another question at that press conference, Trump became even more explicit:

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 39815.html
---------

I'll assume that you are a victim of this hoax rather than intentionally spreading it while knowing it is a hoax. Therefore you should be grateful to be disabused of this incorrect belief.
Right?

I'll give those to you, no problem!

Can you comment on my other portion, about the masks?

"I still stand by my opinion that making rally attendees sign a waiver is hypocritical. It is sad that wearing a mask has become political. One effing statement from him, along the lines of his taking hydroxycloroquine, What Do You Have To Lose,,,by wearing a mask? Won’t do it. Why the eff not?"

I still don't get the mask thing. It really almost seems to be more of a macho thing. Look at these guys. From all over the country I assume, for the signing, no separation, no masks. I don't get it.

If there is a bad second wave, that one, tech, is all on Trump. You can say, well the WHO/CDC first said masks don't do anything, but they changed. Trump did not. If they stop one cough, one sneeze, one piece of spittle from infecting someone else, it did the job. What am I not getting about Trump and masks?

Saturday will be fun to watch, for sure.

[Ad Orientem]

John Bolton: Donald Trump asked Theresa May if Britain had nuclear weapons, said invading Venezuela would be 'cool' and it was 'really part of the U.S.,' and thought Finland was in Russia

Source...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ussia.html

I'm shocked that someone with a known bad temper who was fired from his job would criticize his prior boss.
And of course someone like that always tells the truth!

The problem is that this is not an outlier. Trump has by far the highest turnover in senior staff of any president and a lot of them are saying the same or similar things. I am not a fan of Bolton at all. But I don't for one second think he is making things up. The man maybe a hardcore neo-imperialist warmonger, but he is not a liar. He has mountains of notes and memoranda that he took and kept to back his claims up. It's also telling that the DOJ is trying to shut down the publication of the book on grounds of divulging classified information, not that his claims are false.

[stuper1]

I don't think the DOJ can shut down a publication for having false claims. We have this thing called the First Amendment. It's a pretty high bar to get over.

Bolton will say anything that will advance militarism. If he's against Trump, that's a very good sign that Trump is doing something right.

[flyingpylon]

I don't think the DOJ can shut down a publication for having false claims. We have this thing called the First Amendment. It's a pretty high bar to get over.

Bolton will say anything that will advance militarism. If he's against Trump, that's a very good sign that Trump is doing something right.

Exactly. And it's not just Bolton. The generals who are attacking Trump (which by the way is illegal even for retired officers) are probably also animated by the same motives.

It’s The Swamp protecting its way of life.

[doodle]

John Bolton: Donald Trump asked Theresa May if Britain had nuclear weapons, said invading Venezuela would be 'cool' and it was 'really part of the U.S.,' and thought Finland was in Russia

Source...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ussia.html

I'm shocked that someone with a known bad temper who was fired from his job would criticize his prior boss.
And of course someone like that always tells the truth!

The problem is that this is not an outlier. Trump has by far the highest turnover in senior staff of any president and a lot of them are saying the same or similar things. I am not a fan of Bolton at all. But I don't for one second think he is making things up. The man maybe a hardcore neo-imperialist warmonger, but he is not a liar. He has mountains of notes and memoranda that he took and kept to back his claims up. It's also telling that the DOJ is trying to shut down the publication of the book on grounds of divulging classified information, not that his claims are false.

Exactly! It's not just one senior official, it is literally dozens of them. Including Michael Cohen and people that worked for him in a non governmental capacity prior to taking office. His entire career is full of lawsuits. As I said , I worked with honest contractors who he literally told to take a hike after they spent months working on his projects. The man is a f*#*#*# scumbag. How much more evidence do you need? It's like he's the OJ Simpson for angry white men. But I guess it like he said, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters,” ...that's not a fake quote, he actually wrote that shit...why would you think that anything else that John Bolton, or the thousand of other people suing him are saying is outlandish? Trump is literally the Messiah for angry disgruntled outraged people everywhere....and there is plenty of anger. It's like his outbursts provide some catatonic vicarious release for grumpy people everywhere who have had a wife cheat on them, or a boss take advantage of them, or their friends stop calling them. Trump will take your anger, give it voice and set you free. The Messiah has returned...and he is not black or white...he is orange !

[doodle]

AdOrientem,

Does Trump change your opinions as a Monarchist? I can only imagine how capricious and unhinged a leader like Trump would be if given complete free reign to rule in whatever fashion he saw fit. We certainly wouldn't be discussing John Bolton or any of his senior advisors dissent if Trump were to be appointed by God...(although it seems like that would please many on this forum)..they would have long since been fed to the sharks before we even heard a peep.