vnatale wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:47 pm
I am in the midst of reading the first of two books on Chappaquiddick that I will be reading.
At the time it happened Kennedy never fully disclosed all that went on. The media was on him relentlessly for this.
Was this an example of some political establishment colluding with the media in this? Or, was it some scrutiny that he justly deserved?
Vinny
That was a long time ago when the media was still doing real journalism, although I don't remember them being that relentless.
Don't see how leaving a woman to drown in a car and trying to cover it up compares with something reportedly said about soldiers who died in WW1.
Maybe you could compare it to the Swift-boating of John Kerry but there again it was the actions of John Kerry observed by fellow swift boaters and not just a report that he said something bad.
As someone commented above, I think it's doubtful that this incident will sway many votes but I suspect that wasn't the primary purpose. I'm guessing it was part of a strategy to turn the military against Trump for whatever is planned after the election if the Dems don't win.
• In May 2020, the White House ended National Guard deployments one day before they could claim benefits
• The Trump admin seized 5 million masks intended for VA hospitals. Kushner distributes these masks to private entities for a fee, who then sells the masks to the government
• Trump fired the captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt after he warned superiors that COVID19 was spreading among his crew. The virus subsequently spread amongst the crew.
• After Iran's retaliatory strike, 109 US troops suffered brain injuries. Trump dismissed these as "headaches"
• On July 20, 2017, in room 2E924 of the Pentagon, Trump told a room full of Generals, "You’re a bunch of dopes and babies"
• Pardoned multiple war criminals, which stomped on long standing military values, discipline, and command. Trump has no military experience (May&Nov, 2019)
• Trump mocked Lt. Col. Vindman for his rank and uniform. He threatened said purple heart officer, resulting in the Army providing him protection
• Trump’s Chief of Staff workedin secretto deny comprehensive health coverage to Vietnam Vets who suffered from Agent Orange.
• There is a facility in Tijuana for US veterans that Trump deported. Wounded war vet, Sen Duckworth (D) marked Veterans Day 2019 by visiting this facility
• Russia took control of the main U.S. military facility in Syria abandoned on Trump’s orders. Russia now owns the airstrip we built
• On Oct 7, 2019, Trump abruptly withdrew support from America's allies in Syria after a phone call with Turkey's president (Erdogan). Turkey subsequently bombed US Special Forces.
• Trump sent thousands of American troops to defend the oil assets of the country that perpetrated 9/11
• In Sept 2019, he made an Air Force cargo crew, flying from the U.S. to Kuwait stop in Scotland (where there's no U.S. base) to refuel at a commercial airport (where it costs more), so they could stay overnight at a Trump property (which isn't close to the airport). Trump’s golf courses are losing money, so he's forcing the military to pay for 5-star nights there.
• In Sept, 2019, Pentagon pulled funds for military schools, military housing funds, and daycare to pay for Trump's border wall.
• In Aug, 2019, emails revealed that three of Trump's Mar-a-Lago pals, who are now running Veterans Affairs, are rampant with meddling. "They had no experience in veterans affairs (none of them even served in the military) nor underwent any kind of approval process to serve as de facto managers. Yet, with Trump’s approval, they directed actions and criticized operations without any oversight. They wasted valuable staff time in hundreds of pages of communications and meetings, emails show. Emails reveal disdainful attitudes within the department to the trio’s meddling."
• Veterans graves will be "dug up" for the border wall, after Trump instructed aides to seize private property. Trump tolofficials he would pardon them if they break the law by illegally seizing property.
• Children of deployed US troops are no longer guaranteed citizenship. This includes US troops posted abroad for years at a time (August 28, 2019)
• On Aug 2, 2019, Trump requisitioned military retirement funds towards border wall
• On July 31, 2019, Trump ordered the Navy rescind medals to prosecutors who were prosecuted war criminals
• Trump denied a U.S. Marine of 6 years entry into the United States for his citizenship interview (Reported July 17, 2019)
• Trump made the U.S. Navy Blue Angels violate ethics rules by having them fly at his July 4th political campaign event (July 4, 2019)
• Trump demanded US military chiefs stand next to him at 4th of July parade (reported July 2, 2019)
• In June, 2019, Trump sent troops to the border to paint the fence for a better "aesthetic appearance"
• Trump used his D-Day interview at a cemetery commemorating fallen US soldiers to attack a Vietnam veteran (June 6, 2019)
• Trump started his D-Day commemoration speech by attacking a private citizen (Bette Midler, of all people) (reported on June 4th, 2019)
• Trump made his 2nd wife, Marla Maples, sign a prenup that would have cut off all child support if Tiffany joined the military (reported June 4th, 2019)
• On May 27, 2019, Trump turned away US military from his Memorial Day speech because they were from the destroyer USS John S. McCain
• Trump ordered the USS John McCain out of sight during his visit to Japan (May 15, 2019). The ship's name was subsequently covered. (May 27, 2019)
• Trump purged 200,000 vets' healthcare applications (due to known administrative errors within VA’s enrollment system) (reported on May 13, 2019)
• Trump deported a spouse of fallen Army soldier killed in Afghanistan, leaving their daughter parentless (April 16, 2019)
• On March 20, 2019, Trump complained that a deceased war hero didn't thank him for his funeral
• Between 12/22/2018, and 1/25/2019, Trump refused to sign his party's funding bill, which shut down the government, forcing the Coast Guard to go without pay, which made service members rely on food pantries. However, his appointees got a $10,000 pay raise.
• He banned service members from serving based on gender identity (1/22/2019)
• He denied female troops access to birth control to limit sexual activity (on-going. Published Jan 18, 2019)
• He tried to deport a marine vet who is a U.S.-born citizen (Jan 16, 2019)
• When a man was caught swindling veterans pensions for high-interest “cash advances," Trump's Consumer Financial Protection Bureau fined him $1 (Jan 26, 2019)
• He called a retired general a 'dog' with a 'big, dumb mouth' (Jan 1, 2019)
• He increased privatization of the VA, leading to longer waits and higher taxpayer cost (2018)
• He finally visited troops 2 years after taking office, but only after 154 vacation days at his properties (Dec 26, 2018)
• He revealed a covert Seal Team 5 deployment, including names and faces, on Twitter during his visit to Iraq (Dec 26, 2018)
• Trump lied to deployed troops that he gave them a 10% raise (12/26/2018). He tried giving the military a raise that was lower than the standard living adjustment. Congress told him that idea wasn't going to work. Then after giving them the raise that Congress made him, he lied about it pretending that it was larger than Obama's. It wasn't.
• He fired service members living with HIV just before the 2018 holidays
• He tried to slash disability and unemployment benefits for Veterans to $0, and eliminate the unemployability extrascheduler rating (Dec 17, 2018)
• He called troops on Thanksgiving and told them he's most thankful for himself (Thanksgiving, 2018)
• He urged Florida to not count deployed military votes (Nov 12, 2018)
• He canceled an Arlington Cemetery visit on Veterans Day due to light rain (Nov 12, 2018)
• While in Europe commemorating the end of WWI, he didn't attend the ceremony at a US cemetery due to the rain -- other world leaders went anyway (Nov 10, 2018)
• He used troops as a political prop by sending them on a phantom mission to the border and made them miss Thanksgiving with their families (Oct-Dec, 2018)
• He stopped using troops as a political prop immediately after the election. However, the troops remained in muddy camps on the border (Nov 7, 2018)
• Trump changed the GI Bill through his Forever GI Act, causing the VA to miss veteran benefits, including housing allowances. This caused many vets to run out of food and rent. (reported October 7, 2018)
• Trump doubled the rejection rate for veterans requesting family deportation protections (July 5, 2018)
• Trump deported active-duty spouses (11,800 military families face this problem as of April 2018)
• He forgot a fallen soldier's name (below) during a call to his pregnant widow, then attacked her the next day (Oct 23-24, 2017)
• He sent commandos into an ambush due to a lack of intel, and sends contractors to pick them up, resulting in a commando being left behind, tortured, and executed. (Trump approved the mission because Bannon told him Obama didn't have the guts to do it) (Oct 4, 2017)
• He blocked a veteran group on Twitter (June 2017)
• He ordered the discharge of active-duty immigrant troops with good records (2017-present)
• He deported veterans (2017-present)
• He said he knows more about ISIS than American generals (Oct 2016)
• On Oct 3, 2016, Trump said vets get PTSD because they aren't strong (note: yes, he said it's 'because they aren't strong.' He didn't say it's 'because they're weak.' This distinction is important because of Snopes)
• Trump accepted a Purple Heart from a fan at one of his rallies and said: “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.” (Aug 2, 2016)
• Trump attacks Gold Star families: Myeshia Johnson (gold star widow), Khan family (gold star parents) etc. (2016-present)
• Trump sent funds raised from a Jan 2016 veterans benefit to the Donald J Trump Foundation instead of veterans charities (the foundation has since been ordered shut because of fraud) (Jan, 2016)
• Trump said he has "more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military" because he went to a military-style academy (2015 biography)
• Trump said he doesn't consider POWs heroes because they were caught. He said he prefers people who were not caught (July 18, 2015)
• Trump said having unprotected sex was his own personal Vietnam (1998)
• For a decade, Trump sought to kick veterans off of Fifth Avenue because he found them unsightly nuisances outside of Trump Tower. 1991
• Trump dodged the draft 5 times by having a doctor diagnose him with bone spurs.
• No Trump in America has ever served in the military; this spans 5 generations, and every branch of the family tree. In fact, the reason his grandfather immigrated to America was to avoid military service
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Reminds me of this old SNL skit where Clinton thanked the majority of Americans who voted overwhelming for him and then he slowly whittles down to the fact that he won like 1 guy who actually voted for him!
"I know that half of you didn't vote. But of the half of the half that did, I appreciate the overwhelming support."
MangoMan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:49 am
I don't understand that graphic of the US map, Vinny. Can you provide a link for some context, or some type of explanation? Thanks
There were few states in which the majority of eligible voters did vote and one of the candidates won the majority of those votes.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Whether or not the story is true....seriously, who cares? People are too busy packing up and moving out of cities beset with riots, crime, and overzealous COVID restrictions. The real news, *I* would think, is Bill DeBlasio saying he could solve all these problems if only he were allowed to impose high taxes on "the wealthy" - however he defines that - in order to distribute it to his favorite minorities. Actually I have no idea who he would distribute it to. His friends in City Hall are probably a safer bet.
If you compare something Trump maybe said years ago that was not in the best of taste to something bad enough to make you leave your home, I'd say the latter would be more important to most people. Plus, people already KNOW that Trump says stuff that's not in the best of taste. Another spate of news articles about that isn't going to shock anyone who hasn't been living under a rock for the past 3.5 years.
WiseOne wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:07 pm
Whether or not the story is true....seriously, who cares? People are too busy packing up and moving out of cities beset with riots, crime, and overzealous COVID restrictions. The real news, *I* would think, is Bill DeBlasio saying he could solve all these problems if only he were allowed to impose high taxes on "the wealthy" - however he defines that - in order to distribute it to his favorite minorities. Actually I have no idea who he would distribute it to. His friends in City Hall are probably a safer bet.
If you compare something Trump maybe said years ago that was not in the best of taste to something bad enough to make you leave your home, I'd say the latter would be more important to most people. Plus, people already KNOW that Trump says stuff that's not in the best of taste. Another spate of news articles about that isn't going to shock anyone who hasn't been living under a rock for the past 3.5 years.
I speak of course of the man who in 2001 changed his name to “Bill De Blasio” and who is now mayor of New York City. A modern-day red-diaper baby whose parents were both communists (like him); who left college to help the Nicaraguan communists in the ’80s (proving that he must have been influenced at some point by the Jesuits); who joined the “Nicaraguan Solidarity Movement” that sought to destroy capitalism and replace it with socialism; who honeymooned in Cuba (Bernie Sanders already had done the Russia honeymoon thing); and worked for both Clintons.
The people who elected this numbskull communist as their mayor are now packing up moving vans by the thousands and moving to YOUR city and YOUR state. Good luck with that.
I speak of course of the man who in 2001 changed his name to “Bill De Blasio” and who is now mayor of New York City. A modern-day red-diaper baby whose parents were both communists (like him); who left college to help the Nicaraguan communists in the ’80s (proving that he must have been influenced at some point by the Jesuits); who joined the “Nicaraguan Solidarity Movement” that sought to destroy capitalism and replace it with socialism; who honeymooned in Cuba (Bernie Sanders already had done the Russia honeymoon thing); and worked for both Clintons.
The people who elected this numbskull communist as their mayor are now packing up moving vans by the thousands and moving to YOUR city and YOUR state. Good luck with that.
But, but, but, I thought we are buying lots and lots of shiny new aircraft and carriers and bombs? And bullets....guess we were low on bullets too. Bet those are shiny!
Trump is a non-leader. He is a caricature. It's like not being able to stop watching a bad movie because it is so bad. Tell me please, what purpose does this serve?
All of us peons in the country have to live by these distancing and mask rules, rightly or wrongly. For every vote he thinks he'll get from this, I guarantee there is at least one counter vote from a parent who can't send their kids to in person school because we haven't gotten this under control. And he effing flaunts it every chance he gets.
“You ever see the gyms with the circles?” he said, an apparent reference to a Biden event held in a school gymnasium with attendees observing social distancing guidelines.
I think the counterpoint is that there are probably just as many Americans who think the other side has way overreacted and it's hard to argue the data is not bearing that out now. The tragedy of this whole thing is how it could have been very different if it wouldn't have been politicized by both parties. Cuomo and Trump I think both get Fs for politicizing it initially...and they both surely did.
You do have to give the man one thing, he knows how to tap into strong undercurrents.
Kbg wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:24 am
I think the counterpoint is that there are probably just as many Americans who think the other side has way overreacted and it's hard to argue the data is not bearing that out now. The tragedy of this whole thing is how it could have been very different if it wouldn't have been politicized by both parties. Cuomo and Trump I think both get Fs for politicizing it initially...and they both surely did.
You do have to give the man one thing, he knows how to tap into strong undercurrents.
I know this is totally politicized, but who is "the other side?"
I understand technically who that is, a lot of people, but the official line from the government at almost all levels, is wear a mask when appropriate (or mandated), and social distance, right?
And he gives that position the finger every chance he gets. He's like this anti-government candidate, not in office yet, but he IS the government? Isn't this a huge contradiction, or hypocrisy, or irony, some other word like that?
I mean what is going through a Trump supporter's head at a rally? Woo Hoo, this is great, we don't need no stinking masks!!! Rah Rah!
And then they go home, because they have to work from home, because they can't go in the office yet (or don't have a job anymore), and their kids are their with them because they can't go to school yet.
So then they are sitting there, what, stewing because everyone is against Trump and he's right, this virus ain't nothin', why are we doing all this mask and distancing stuff?
But there is no lightbulb that goes off, he IS the government! He's not an outsider anymore! I guess not.
The other side is the Democratic party who has not been driven by the science either. (Personally I'll give any government official a pass for not having it figured out in March or April but not after that. It's completely irrational to think that any government or individual has anything complex all figured out on day 1 of a crisis.)
The mask example totally makes my point, because the issue was politicized wearing masks has become politicized...not wearing them is a form of protest. I agree not a helpful form of protest during a pandemic but nonetheless that's what is going on.
And of course he's the anti-government candidate. No big surprise there. He's been that since 2015. I personally happen to think that our best politicians know how to put the politics/political views aside and lead when they have to. Trump I think is incapable of doing that.
However, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out the mainstream press has been using their reporting on COVID as a weapon. The daily story lines are utterly predictable at this point.
I am grateful for the state I live in. The dominant political culture is moderate right/Republican and the governor and state health leaders have done an outstanding job in my view of balancing the need to have a robust economy and keep the population safe. We have both excellent employment and COVID stats. The main challenge right now is dealing with college related outbreaks and the approach is moderate and sensible...if you got it or are exposed, 14 day quarantine, do classes remotely, come back to classroom instruction when you are out of quarantine. There's been no serious thought of not going to college. Same applies to elementary, middle and high school public education.
I really disagree with people who's default setting is government is bad...what matters is good government
Last edited by Kbg on Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
There are plenty of people on the "other side", Cortopassi. Yes there are many who are deathly afraid of contracting COVID because of the steady drumbeat in the news about increasing cases and trumpeted single case reports of people who have died. But as time goes on, this effect is wearing off. People are noticing that the high caseload is not translating to hospitalizations or deaths - as is well described in this video describing what's happening as a "casedemic":
People are also smart enough to observe that months of mass gatherings in the form of BLM protests/riots have not had any effect on cases. That's been especially clear in NYC. I did wince at the sight of the RNC convention with a packed audience most of whom were not wearing masks, but in fact it's an excellent test. Let's see how many cases/illnesses arise from that event. If so, they should be evident by now.
While this wearing down effect is going on, people are also seeing up close and personal the results of COVID lockdowns: kids kept out of school, businesses closed, barriers to leaving your house. Many are questioning whether the cost of this is worth it. Then there's the protests, riots, increased crime, and decreased quality of life in the cities. I posted in another thread about how two of my relatives, who have been solid Democratic voters for decades are afraid of what the Democrats are now promoting and are of the opinion that Trump has been a net good, and they plan to vote for him in November. I never said a word and in fact they don't even know what my views are. They volunteered this out of the blue.
WiseOne wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:06 am
There are plenty of people on the "other side", Cortopassi. Yes there are many who are deathly afraid of contracting COVID because of the steady drumbeat in the news about increasing cases and trumpeted single case reports of people who have died. But as time goes on, this effect is wearing off. People are noticing that the high caseload is not translating to hospitalizations or deaths - as is well described in this video describing what's happening as a "casedemic":
I watched and agree the goalposts and talking has shifted to cases vs. deaths. It is so frustrating, but you just CAN'T bring that up at any level, because you WILL get your head chewed off by some people who are still terrified. We still get daily updates on the news of IL latest cases and death, and deaths lately have been in single digits for the state, in a state where the average deaths/day last year were about 300.
There are more people who have shifted to the overblown side, but those aren't the people in control.
But after reading the Simon article, with this line sticking out at the end:
"If they acted like it is a crisis then I might believe it is a crisis. Americans are catching on that now this may be more of a big con than the public health crisis we are being told it is."
I just don't think it is going to disappear on Nov 3rd if Biden wins, like some of my more conspiracy minded friends think. I was watching CNN a bit last light (I like Cuomo -- gasp!) and he already had moved on from Trump's handling to complaining on Biden -- what are his plans if he wins? How will he deal with this?
I am also worried about what are seemingly becoming permanent level changes to schools, workplaces, stores, etc. When this burns out or we have a vaccine, are we not going back to 30 kids in a classroom? Drop all the plexiglas that's everywhere? I'm scared we aren't.
MangoMan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:07 am
Personally, I hope I never have to shake hands with anyone ever again.
I *love* shaking hands when meeting someone.
As for # of kids, that was just a statement. 20 is more reasonable, but my concern is more centered on will desks be placed back to normal distances? Will people be able to stand tightly in any kind of lines for anything without freaking? For food, sporting events, etc.
Speaking of, I just listened to Joel Salatin on JRE, and he was talking the gross things he does to keep his immune system in working order ("I haven't had any kind of illness in 20 years"), like drinking 'clean' (his words) water out of the beef watering trough that they'd been slobbering in, sticking his hands in the compost pile, and eating a bit of dirt with his asparagus that he just harvested out of his garden.
I'll admit I probably eat more dirt than the average American, the backyard garden being to blame, of course.
Cortopassi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:21 am
As for # of kids, that was just a statement. 20 is more reasonable, but my concern is more centered on will desks be placed back to normal distances? Will people be able to stand tightly in any kind of lines for anything without freaking? For food, sporting events, etc.
I think people will put it out of mind once the media onslaught abates. Or maybe, as more and more people get fed up and stop clicking on those stories, they'll hit some critical mass and switch to some other type of programming, and then the rest of the people will move past it.
As in, teachers put desks far apart and talk about social distancing at school, but since none of the kids (or the teacher) knows anyone who's died from it, and they don't hear from the media about how someone died from it on the other side of the country last week, they'll just... stop.
Using data on the reopening decisions of 835 public school districts in the United States, we find that school districts in locations with stronger teachers’ unions are less likely to reopen in person even after we control semi-parametrically for differences in local demographic characteristics. These results are robust to four measures of union strength, various potential confounding characteristics, and a further disaggregation to the county level. We also do not find evidence to suggest that measures of COVID-19 risk are correlated with school reopening decisions.link
