Is Trump doing a good job?

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flyingpylon
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by flyingpylon » Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:48 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:47 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:03 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:53 am
Lonestar wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:45 am
Everyday there is a new Trump allegation. A new and different one each day. I'm not inferring they are true or false, but people are looking for anything to possibly discredit the president. Yesterday it was Trump's disrespect for fallen soldiers.

Today's Drudge Report has this content in an article:

"But Trump’s former national security adviser, John Bolton, said that while he hadn’t heard the remarks himself, they sounded like something the president would say.

This is a very important political issue for Trump and he’s in a difficult position at this point,” Bolton said Friday in a Bloomberg Radio interview. “I have not heard anybody say, ‘Oh, that doesn’t sound like the Donald Trump I know.’”


So now we are brainwashing the public into believing something is true because "it sounds like something someone would say". If the main stream media successfully integrates this form of journalism we are doomed to never hear the real truth about anything!
I have a different take on it.

It all revolves around having a reputation and how well you either uphold yours or tarnish it.

You I ever discover someone has lied to me then that person will NEVER get the benefit of the doubt from me in the future. In my case, I always want to be trusted so I will not tell a lie to anyone.

Trump has developed a certain reputation, which he has to live with. Therefore, in the above cases, is it any wonder he does not get the benefit of the doubt?

To put it another way, Bolton is an arch conservative. If the same allegation had been made about Obama, would Bolton have given the same response? I don't think so because there would be no basis in Obama's reputation for said anything remotely similar to what Trump has alleged to have said. How far is it a stretch to believe that Trump said what he said it the light of how well documented it is what he said about McCain?

Vinny
Your approach might work for average people, but not those willing to take on a political establishment that colludes with the media to actively promote false narratives against them.

Trump's beef with McCain was with McCain as an individual, perhaps rightfully so.
I am in the midst of reading the first of two books on Chappaquiddick that I will be reading.

At the time it happened Kennedy never fully disclosed all that went on. The media was on him relentlessly for this.

Was this an example of some political establishment colluding with the media in this? Or, was it some scrutiny that he justly deserved?

Vinny
With the caveat that I was a toddler at the time and not paying attention, I’m going to say no the two situations are not the same at all. If anything, Kennedy was part of the political establishment, not fighting it. Frankly I’m not sure how you could compare them at all.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by pp4me » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:44 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:47 pm
I am in the midst of reading the first of two books on Chappaquiddick that I will be reading.

At the time it happened Kennedy never fully disclosed all that went on. The media was on him relentlessly for this.

Was this an example of some political establishment colluding with the media in this? Or, was it some scrutiny that he justly deserved?

Vinny
That was a long time ago when the media was still doing real journalism, although I don't remember them being that relentless.

Don't see how leaving a woman to drown in a car and trying to cover it up compares with something reportedly said about soldiers who died in WW1.

Maybe you could compare it to the Swift-boating of John Kerry but there again it was the actions of John Kerry observed by fellow swift boaters and not just a report that he said something bad.

As someone commented above, I think it's doubtful that this incident will sway many votes but I suspect that wasn't the primary purpose. I'm guessing it was part of a strategy to turn the military against Trump for whatever is planned after the election if the Dems don't win.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by technovelist » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:59 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:44 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:51 am
Vinny, it doesn’t matter anymore.

If 4 star general John Kelly comes out and said I was one of the sources, and verifies he said it, it will not matter. It’s revenge, payback, he’s working for the other side, etc...all that will be the reasons Kelly brought this up now.

Even if the underlying comments are 100% true, does it, would it, change any Trump supporter minds even on this forum? Tech?

I suspect no.
"t a campaign stop in Iowa on Saturday, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump said he could shoot someone in public and still not lose any voters.

“They say I have the most loyal people — did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn’t lose any voters.” he said. “It’s like incredible.”"

Vinny
He wasn't very far wrong: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... w_why.html
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by technovelist » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:01 pm

pp4me wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:44 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:47 pm
I am in the midst of reading the first of two books on Chappaquiddick that I will be reading.

At the time it happened Kennedy never fully disclosed all that went on. The media was on him relentlessly for this.

Was this an example of some political establishment colluding with the media in this? Or, was it some scrutiny that he justly deserved?

Vinny
That was a long time ago when the media was still doing real journalism, although I don't remember them being that relentless.

Don't see how leaving a woman to drown in a car and trying to cover it up compares with something reportedly said about soldiers who died in WW1.

Maybe you could compare it to the Swift-boating of John Kerry but there again it was the actions of John Kerry observed by fellow swift boaters and not just a report that he said something bad.

As someone commented above, I think it's doubtful that this incident will sway many votes but I suspect that wasn't the primary purpose. I'm guessing it was part of a strategy to turn the military against Trump for whatever is planned after the election if the Dems don't win.
If that's the intent, I seriously doubt it will work. Those in the military know they would be in much worse shape with Biden as President.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:00 pm

TRUMP & THE MILITARY

• In May 2020, the White House ended National Guard deployments one day before they could claim benefits
• The Trump admin seized 5 million masks intended for VA hospitals. Kushner distributes these masks to private entities for a fee, who then sells the masks to the government
• Trump fired the captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt after he warned superiors that COVID19 was spreading among his crew. The virus subsequently spread amongst the crew.
• After Iran's retaliatory strike, 109 US troops suffered brain injuries. Trump dismissed these as "headaches"
• On July 20, 2017, in room 2E924 of the Pentagon, Trump told a room full of Generals, "You’re a bunch of dopes and babies"
• Pardoned multiple war criminals, which stomped on long standing military values, discipline, and command. Trump has no military experience (May&Nov, 2019)
• Trump mocked Lt. Col. Vindman for his rank and uniform. He threatened said purple heart officer, resulting in the Army providing him protection
• Trump’s Chief of Staff worked­in secret­to deny comprehensive health coverage to Vietnam Vets who suffered from Agent Orange.
• There is a facility in Tijuana for US veterans that Trump deported. Wounded war vet, Sen Duckworth (D) marked Veterans Day 2019 by visiting this facility
• Russia took control of the main U.S. military facility in Syria abandoned on Trump’s orders. Russia now owns the airstrip we built
• On Oct 7, 2019, Trump abruptly withdrew support from America's allies in Syria after a phone call with Turkey's president (Erdogan). Turkey subsequently bombed US Special Forces.
• Trump sent thousands of American troops to defend the oil assets of the country that perpetrated 9/11
• In Sept 2019, he made an Air Force cargo crew, flying from the U.S. to Kuwait stop in Scotland (where there's no U.S. base) to refuel at a commercial airport (where it costs more), so they could stay overnight at a Trump property (which isn't close to the airport). Trump’s golf courses are losing money, so he's forcing the military to pay for 5-star nights there.
• In Sept, 2019, Pentagon pulled funds for military schools, military housing funds, and daycare to pay for Trump's border wall.
• In Aug, 2019, emails revealed that three of Trump's Mar-a-Lago pals, who are now running Veterans Affairs, are rampant with meddling. "They had no experience in veterans affairs (none of them even served in the military) nor underwent any kind of approval process to serve as de facto managers. Yet, with Trump’s approval, they directed actions and criticized operations without any oversight. They wasted valuable staff time in hundreds of pages of communications and meetings, emails show. Emails reveal disdainful attitudes within the department to the trio’s meddling."
• Veterans graves will be "dug up" for the border wall, after Trump instructed aides to seize private property. Trump tolofficials he would pardon them if they break the law by illegally seizing property.
• Children of deployed US troops are no longer guaranteed citizenship. This includes US troops posted abroad for years at a time (August 28, 2019)
• On Aug 2, 2019, Trump requisitioned military retirement funds towards border wall
• On July 31, 2019, Trump ordered the Navy rescind medals to prosecutors who were prosecuted war criminals
• Trump denied a U.S. Marine of 6 years entry into the United States for his citizenship interview (Reported July 17, 2019)
• Trump made the U.S. Navy Blue Angels violate ethics rules by having them fly at his July 4th political campaign event (July 4, 2019)
• Trump demanded US military chiefs stand next to him at 4th of July parade (reported July 2, 2019)
• In June, 2019, Trump sent troops to the border to paint the fence for a better "aesthetic appearance"
• Trump used his D-Day interview at a cemetery commemorating fallen US soldiers to attack a Vietnam veteran (June 6, 2019)
• Trump started his D-Day commemoration speech by attacking a private citizen (Bette Midler, of all people) (reported on June 4th, 2019)
• Trump made his 2nd wife, Marla Maples, sign a prenup that would have cut off all child support if Tiffany joined the military (reported June 4th, 2019)
• On May 27, 2019, Trump turned away US military from his Memorial Day speech because they were from the destroyer USS John S. McCain
• Trump ordered the USS John McCain out of sight during his visit to Japan (May 15, 2019). The ship's name was subsequently covered. (May 27, 2019)
• Trump purged 200,000 vets' healthcare applications (due to known administrative errors within VA’s enrollment system) (reported on May 13, 2019)
• Trump deported a spouse of fallen Army soldier killed in Afghanistan, leaving their daughter parentless (April 16, 2019)
• On March 20, 2019, Trump complained that a deceased war hero didn't thank him for his funeral
• Between 12/22/2018, and 1/25/2019, Trump refused to sign his party's funding bill, which shut down the government, forcing the Coast Guard to go without pay, which made service members rely on food pantries. However, his appointees got a $10,000 pay raise.
• He banned service members from serving based on gender identity (1/22/2019)
• He denied female troops access to birth control to limit sexual activity (on-going. Published Jan 18, 2019)
• He tried to deport a marine vet who is a U.S.-born citizen (Jan 16, 2019)
• When a man was caught swindling veterans pensions for high-interest “cash advances," Trump's Consumer Financial Protection Bureau fined him $1 (Jan 26, 2019)
• He called a retired general a 'dog' with a 'big, dumb mouth' (Jan 1, 2019)
• He increased privatization of the VA, leading to longer waits and higher taxpayer cost (2018)
• He finally visited troops 2 years after taking office, but only after 154 vacation days at his properties (Dec 26, 2018)
• He revealed a covert Seal Team 5 deployment, including names and faces, on Twitter during his visit to Iraq (Dec 26, 2018)
• Trump lied to deployed troops that he gave them a 10% raise (12/26/2018). He tried giving the military a raise that was lower than the standard living adjustment. Congress told him that idea wasn't going to work. Then after giving them the raise that Congress made him, he lied about it pretending that it was larger than Obama's. It wasn't.
• He fired service members living with HIV just before the 2018 holidays
• He tried to slash disability and unemployment benefits for Veterans to $0, and eliminate the unemployability extrascheduler rating (Dec 17, 2018)
• He called troops on Thanksgiving and told them he's most thankful for himself (Thanksgiving, 2018)
• He urged Florida to not count deployed military votes (Nov 12, 2018)
• He canceled an Arlington Cemetery visit on Veterans Day due to light rain (Nov 12, 2018)
• While in Europe commemorating the end of WWI, he didn't attend the ceremony at a US cemetery due to the rain -- other world leaders went anyway (Nov 10, 2018)
• He used troops as a political prop by sending them on a phantom mission to the border and made them miss Thanksgiving with their families (Oct-Dec, 2018)
• He stopped using troops as a political prop immediately after the election. However, the troops remained in muddy camps on the border (Nov 7, 2018)
• Trump changed the GI Bill through his Forever GI Act, causing the VA to miss veteran benefits, including housing allowances. This caused many vets to run out of food and rent. (reported October 7, 2018)
• Trump doubled the rejection rate for veterans requesting family deportation protections (July 5, 2018)
• Trump deported active-duty spouses (11,800 military families face this problem as of April 2018)
• He forgot a fallen soldier's name (below) during a call to his pregnant widow, then attacked her the next day (Oct 23-24, 2017)
• He sent commandos into an ambush due to a lack of intel, and sends contractors to pick them up, resulting in a commando being left behind, tortured, and executed. (Trump approved the mission because Bannon told him Obama didn't have the guts to do it) (Oct 4, 2017)
• He blocked a veteran group on Twitter (June 2017)
• He ordered the discharge of active-duty immigrant troops with good records (2017-present)
• He deported veterans (2017-present)
• He said he knows more about ISIS than American generals (Oct 2016)
• On Oct 3, 2016, Trump said vets get PTSD because they aren't strong (note: yes, he said it's 'because they aren't strong.' He didn't say it's 'because they're weak.' This distinction is important because of Snopes)
• Trump accepted a Purple Heart from a fan at one of his rallies and said: “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.” (Aug 2, 2016)
• Trump attacks Gold Star families: Myeshia Johnson (gold star widow), Khan family (gold star parents) etc. (2016-present)
• Trump sent funds raised from a Jan 2016 veterans benefit to the Donald J Trump Foundation instead of veterans charities (the foundation has since been ordered shut because of fraud) (Jan, 2016)
• Trump said he has "more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military" because he went to a military-style academy (2015 biography)
• Trump said he doesn't consider POWs heroes because they were caught. He said he prefers people who were not caught (July 18, 2015)
• Trump said having unprotected sex was his own personal Vietnam (1998)
• For a decade, Trump sought to kick veterans off of Fifth Avenue because he found them unsightly nuisances outside of Trump Tower. 1991
• Trump dodged the draft 5 times by having a doctor diagnose him with bone spurs.
• No Trump in America has ever served in the military; this spans 5 generations, and every branch of the family tree. In fact, the reason his grandfather immigrated to America was to avoid military service
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Cortopassi » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:06 pm

Vinny, if you think an even longer list will change minds more, I think you’re mistaken.

;D
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by technovelist » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:28 pm

"Nearly 700 American veterans signed a letter in support of President Donald Trump after it was reported that he allegedly disparaged World War I veterans in 2018.

In the open letter, which was signed by 674 veterans, the writers said they are speaking out after “recent baseless media attacks against President Trump from anonymous sources,” referring to a piece published by The Atlantic last week.

“Anyone who knows President Trump has seen his love and reverence for our military and veterans. That is why we, veterans from every generation, are writing today to reaffirm our support for President Trump,” they added, saying that the Atlantic article is designed to “divide the nation” and “meddle in the election.”

https://www.theepochtimes.com/700-us-ve ... 89833.html
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:25 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:06 pm
Vinny, if you think an even longer list will change minds more, I think you’re mistaken.

;D

EVEN I had not been aware of many of the items on the list!

Vinny
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:21 pm

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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:48 am

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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by pugchief » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:49 am

I don't understand that graphic of the US map, Vinny. Can you provide a link for some context, or some type of explanation? Thanks
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by jalanlong » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:27 am

vnatale wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:21 pm
Capture.JPG

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live ... ica/n10912

Reminds me of this old SNL skit where Clinton thanked the majority of Americans who voted overwhelming for him and then he slowly whittles down to the fact that he won like 1 guy who actually voted for him!

"I know that half of you didn't vote. But of the half of the half that did, I appreciate the overwhelming support."
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