Is Trump doing a good job?

[dualstow]

Is it Stratfor?

[Kbg]

Moda,

I just think you have a default setting for everything regardless of facts. I gave you the key for how to figure out what reality is when it comes to casualties caused by whom. Draw a line south of Najaf and the odds are very high the person was killed by a Shia militia or most likely Shia placed roadside bomb. Do your own analysis and actually try going with facts vs spin.

There is probably no one on this board who would like to see the US out of the Middle East more than me. I think we have WAY overstayed our useful purpose and welcome there.

However, I believe you quite naive and or hopelessly biased if you think Iran has an ounce of goodwill toward us and is some benign if only the US wouldn’t have picked on us country. They are not our friends and we shouldn’t be theirs...notwithstanding I think a major war would be stupid on all sides. We may not be able to fix something the way we would like to but we can break something better than anyone.

[Smith1776]

Yeah, the news footage of massive crowds chanting "death to America" should be telling enough.

[vnatale]

I try not be cynical but in that part of the world internationally and internally, there aren't "sides" that anyone adheres to. The culture, necessarily so, is all about figuring out who is the strongest now, how can that fact help "me" now. And you can bet your life on the fact that as soon as the power equation changes everyone is going to adapt to the new read/reality of things.

Is this completely different from many people in France joining the French resistance on the day the United States was liberating France?

Vinny

[Kbg]

I try not be cynical but in that part of the world internationally and internally, there aren't "sides" that anyone adheres to. The culture, necessarily so, is all about figuring out who is the strongest now, how can that fact help "me" now. And you can bet your life on the fact that as soon as the power equation changes everyone is going to adapt to the new read/reality of things.

Is this completely different from many people in France joining the French resistance on the day the United States was liberating France?

Vinny

As noted, necessarily so. If we lived in similar circumstances I'm sure we would all be doing the same thing. I don't think I previously criticized this behavior at all. I did point out we should have no illusions as to the dynamic going on and assume we have real "friends." We have elements that will or will not align their interests with ours for a period of time. And equally, we have elements that will actively oppose for a period of time (and both could switch and likely would switch if the situation changes significantly).

[dualstow]

Yeah, the news footage of massive crowds chanting "death to America" should be telling enough.

a.f. branco

88826D9F-2733-45D6-A8DD-18B66D21DF8F.jpeg (560.79 KiB) Viewed 6134 times

( from here )

[Smith1776]

Yeah, the news footage of massive crowds chanting "death to America" should be telling enough.

88826D9F-2733-45D6-A8DD-18B66D21DF8F.jpeg

( from here )

Er, yeah, well, maybe they're just chanting louder now?

[dualstow]

Finally, we unified a country.

[moda0306]

Moda,

I just think you have a default setting for everything regardless of facts. I gave you the key for how to figure out what reality is when it comes to casualties caused by whom. Draw a line south of Najaf and the odds are very high the person was killed by a Shia militia or most likely Shia placed roadside bomb. Do your own analysis and actually try going with facts vs spin.

There is probably no one on this board who would like to see the US out of the Middle East more than me. I think we have WAY overstayed our useful purpose and welcome there.

However, I believe you quite naive and or hopelessly biased if you think Iran has an ounce of goodwill toward us and is some benign if only the US wouldn’t have picked on us country. They are not our friends and we shouldn’t be theirs...notwithstanding I think a major war would be stupid on all sides. We may not be able to fix something the way we would like to but we can break something better than anyone.

Wow I didn’t know you wanted me to extrapolate so much from your post. I’ve already lead with the fact that some folks are pointing out that most Shia related deaths aren’t Soleimani-supported but instead Mahdi forces with no connection to Iran. Now this could be incorrect, but it’d be easier to simply address that point than pointing me to a list of where every soldier has died and assuming anyone would make the ridiculous extrapolation that they can confirm Iran involvement from that.

Further, if you’re so much I agreement with me that we’ve “outstayed our welcome” to put it mildly, than why are we even talking about this tit-for-tat who-wronged-who bullshit at the expense of additional innocent lives and potential war escalation? This discussion should be about almost nothing more than why and how we should get the f’k out of that region. Not why we were justified in (insert last counterstrike here). If we want to settle every score with every bad guy we’ll be there for eternity...

And either I’m not being clear or you’re completely misinterpreting my general position so let me clarify. I don’t trust ANY government, or it’s actors, to act as true “allies” of one another nor “good” in general, especially in the arena of war powers.

There are plenty of good people in Iran and in the U.S., but it gives me no illusions as to the nature of what governments, especially the secretive/violent wings of them, really are. They’re gangs, protection rackets, etc. They’re usually terrible stewards of the well-being of their people, and neither Iran nor the US are exempt from that charge... hence why I want us the fuck out of they region and ridicule the folks trying to make excuses for US hawkery towards Iran.

[WiseOne]

I do have a source for stuff like this but it is part of a closed group I belong to. The source is available to the public at a pretty high cost but I get it for free with the expectation that those who are part of the freebie group make comments/point out errors or if there is disagreement with an assessment or fact. A form of crowd sourcing if you will. Actually, I don't really follow current events as so much of what one reads is utter crap made for selling news. I pretty much despise US news venues of any kind because they are just awful.

However, it is pretty tough to shut out the world and I have enough nose and experience in these types of things that I know when something is serious vs. hyped up news designed to sell commercials. Following events was pretty much my profession for a long time and it isn't something that interests me enough anymore to use my personal spare time on it. If I think something is serious I start to pay attention, but if you will note by what I wrote above I mainly look for the facts of what happened. As evidenced, by several comments in this thread people tend to lead with their opinions and then try to frame what happened inside of their pre-decided opinion/world view.

Kbg, that is interesting. I don't have time or energy to do what you're doing, but I very much appreciate those who are diligently chasing down the facts (just wish some journalists would take an interest in that approach). It's true that we are generally left to our own devices, trying to infer from biased, selective, and often just plain erroneous reporting, so we have little choice but to lead with our opinions. If you can present findings from your closed group regularly that would be fabulous - thanks!

I have been following Reason magazine as one of the best of a set of bad options, but I am often discouraged to see that their headlines and article titles consist of an opinion, signaling that what follows is likely biased.

[Kbg]

Moda,

Fair enough. I'm not a government hater though. They are protection rackets, that's kinda the point. Personally I like being able to go about my daily business without an AK-47 constantly in tow and I'm willing to exchange some of my earnings and even some of my freedom for that protection.

One thing I'm sure of, hard core libertarians have never lived in what they desire and if you peel back their arguments one finds a ton of rosy assumptions about human behavior that have little basis in historical fact/experience.

Humans are a pretty tough crowd when they want to be.

[moda0306]

Moda,

Fair enough. I'm not a government hater though. They are protection rackets, that's kinda the point. Personally I like being able to go about my daily business without an AK-47 constantly in tow and I'm willing to exchange some of my earnings and even some of my freedom for that protection.

One thing I'm sure of, hard core libertarians have never lived in what they desire and if you peel back their arguments one finds a ton of rosy assumptions about human behavior that have little basis in historical fact/experience.

Humans are a pretty tough crowd when they want to be.

Kbg,

I agree with your last point. Which is why I call myself “anarcho-curious,” as I wouldn’t have the confidence to push the red anarchy button.

If I had to reign in the racket, I’d bring it back to defending our homeland only. And eliminating the ability for our government to remove anyone of their life or liberty without due process but for a time of stated and temporary war-time powers.

Edit: As a temporary caveat to the current racket, as it’s obviously a protection scheme not for American lives but for Western capital interests, I’d say whatever our military spending is during non-full-scale war should essentially be paid for Pay-Go like a security service via a wealth and corporate income tax.

That would shrink the racket considerably in no time n

[Kbg]

We are very close on your second para.

While sentimentally I totally agree with you on defend the homeland only, the world is globalized and oceans are no longer the barrier they once were.

I’d love to see the Legislative Branch worry more about its prerogatives vs. the other branches and simply do what the constitution says it should...declare war with a vote and have the Supreme Court sustain that. The Pres needs a little flexibility to deal with the small stuff and react quickly. In my view something like Iraq and Afghanistan should be in the declared war bucket. Too bad a Democratic Congress and President blew this norm in the 1950s...no small irony there.

[Kriegsspiel]

Horton seemed much more reasonable and non-crazy than I assumed he would be. I think he is mistaken about EFPs, and I think he trusts Iran about the nuclear deal and the "golden deal" he was talking about, and some other things, but I'm just an untrusting fuck.

[stuper1]

I hate the global, greedy empire that America has become. I wish it weren't so. I think the advent of nuclear weapons has a lot to do with it. At this point, almost any nation could probably build their own nukes given a little time and space. True or not (and to me it seems more true than not based on a negative view of human nature), the military-industrial complex can say to American decision makers that unless America plays the part as the world's policeman, then more nations will get nukes and the chances of local or large-scale nuclear holocaust will increase significantly. You could say that somebody like the United Nations should play that role, but America isn't going to trust something this important to anyone else. It's sad but the genie is out of the bottle; no way to put him back in. Eventual one-world government seems like the end-game to me, but that's presumably hundreds of years down the line. The elites have already accepted this, which is maybe why globalism and unchecked immigration of anyone who wants to move anywhere seem to be the new religion.

[Smith1776]

Very stable genius.

[Kbg]

I hate the global, greedy empire that America has become.

Defend, what is your rationale/evidence for this statement?

No need to point out we like to be the controlling agent in large international mechanisms, economic, political, military etc...I agree with that.

However, I will also point out that the entire world with the exception of maybe a 15-20 year span has had the opportunity to chose an alternative (Former Soviet Union/Communism and now China)...and yet most do not.

Why?

[shekels]

Yeah, the news footage of massive crowds chanting "death to America" should be telling enough.

Just One Womans opinion.
https://twitter.com/davereaboi/status/1 ... 0335911936

[stuper1]

I hate the global, greedy empire that America has become.

Defend, what is your rationale/evidence for this statement?

No need to point out we like to be the controlling agent in large international mechanisms, economic, political, military etc...I agree with that.

However, I will also point out that the entire world with the exception of maybe a 15-20 year span has had the opportunity to chose an alternative (Former Soviet Union/Communism and now China)...and yet most do not.

Why?

What is my evidence for stating that I hate what America has become? Hate is just an emotion. I'm not sure how I could give you evidence that I hate something. I'll try posting a selfie the next time I have steam coming out of my ears when I hear something on the news which is obviously just more agitprop designed to make us live in fear of the next bogeyman and justify higher and higher military expenditures.

What I was trying to say originally is that I don't like being complicit, simply by being born in America, to blowing up children and wedding parties, etc. with drones in the name of "freedom". I would much rather that America could just sit back and take care of itself and not feel that it has to be the world's policeman. However, those days are gone never to return.

[dualstow]

@stuper

Are you complicit, though? Not really. Not any more than a Chinese newspaper vendor is complicit in the Uygur camps, an Israeli citizen is complicit in a soldier shooting a Palestinian outside of defense, an average Saudi citizen in 9/11.

[stuper1]

Oh good, I feel better already.

[Kbg]

Watch some ISIS snuff videos, guaranteed you will feel much better about America. Make sure you find the unedited ones for the full effect.

[stuper1]

That's actually a good perspective, although I'll pass on the snuff videos. I can't even watch the original Star Wars because I don't like watching all those Storm Troopers die. That's how much of a wuss I am.

Human nature is a terrible thing. I guess America feels that if it doesn't act as the world's policeman, then very bad things will happen. However, the blowback from acting as the world's policeman causes it to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. The military-industrial complex doesn't care as long as they are making boatloads of money. That's one thing that really irks me is my tax money going to make some CEO rich off of blowing people up.

[dualstow]

Oh good, I feel better already.

I didn't say any of those things were cheerful or even justified. I said you're not complicit.

I can't even watch the original Star Wars because I don't like watching all those Storm Troopers die.

Never mind. We didn't have this conversation.

[Smith1776]

Oh good, I feel better already.

I didn't say any of those things were cheerful or even justified. I said you're not complicit.

I can't even watch the original Star Wars because I don't like watching all those Storm Troopers die.

Never mind. We didn't have this conversation.

It's funny, I had that same thought when I was watching Star Wars recently.

Do those nameless and faceless soldiers have family? Kinda sad to think.