Is Trump doing a good job?

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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:29 am

I’m going to untangle a few quotes here, as they’re getting kind of hard to match with the author.
(dual.)We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.
(Soph.)
Why does everyone think that migrating a group like the Hmong or the Kurds (or Syrians or Guatemalans for that matter) to the US is a good thing? It is a surefire way to wipe out a culture permanently, which I don't view as a good thing. Neither is uprooting an entire population from the land they've lived in for centuries.

WiseOne, I was just asking Simonjester if that was one of the things he had in mind.
Do you think Hmong culture has been “wiped out permanently”? From what I know about them (casual interview with someone who lived with them and studied them), they have been quite slow to assimilate. Which invites its own criticisms- but they’re alive.
WiseOne wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 am
Yes, I'm sure that my being against uprooting an entire population and transplanting them to the US would have me labeled as a "racist" in a heartbeat. It's ridiculous how that narrative is trotted out for just about everything immigration-related.

Another way that the idea of population transplants rubs me the wrong way: there's a hidden undercurrent of Western Superiority Syndrome in it. i.e. of course the Kurds would be better off in the US because their culture and the land they live in now are not up to our high standards. If anything, THAT attitude should be labeled as racist.
My own 2¢ for what it’s worth: I’m not advocating kidnapping the Kurds, or any population, and forcibly moving them to the States, wholesale. I would be in favor of fast-tracking immigration for those Kurds who want it. They’ve earned it. I know someone who lied about being a refugee to get “asylum” in the U.S. from China. I’d rather have the Kurds. No interview required.

It would be nice to have Kurdistan, and at one point, I thought it was going to be carved out of Iraq. Hey, it would be nice to have an independent Palestine. The chance for either is looking slim.

As you defined it, transplanting an *entire* ethnic group does or can appear racist if the idea behind it is that Western culture is superior, with our Burger King and our Kim Kardashian. Personally, I was thinking more along the lines of, they won’t be slaughtered by Erdogan’s armed forces while we dream about Kurdistan.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by jacksonm2 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:43 am

dualstow wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:11 am
jacksonm2 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:22 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm
Or, maybe Trump has a thing for dictators and strongmen. There are things I like about the Trump administrations’ actions and by tech’s own definition of TDS, that disqualifies me. Putin, Kim, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and Erdogan. He loves the despots.
Most Filipinos I know, and I'm married to one of them, would not appreciate seeing Duterte lumped in with that group of despots. To them, he is the Donald Trump of the Philippines.
Seriously? No offense to the wife or any of his supporters, but his policy of open season on suspected drug dealers means that people are murdering their rivals in the streets, whether or not they are actual drug dealers. In the meantime, his son is dealing drugs. For many reasons, Duterte is the definition of a despot.
Well, maybe the Wyatt Earp of the Philippines would be a better comparison than Donald Trump. My wife's hometown was run by drug lords, one of which was the mayor. He was killed a couple of years ago when Duterte sent in the troops. We saw a lot of it in progress via smartphone camera when it happened. It was like the gunfight at the OK corral. Was just there in August and it's still the Wild West but nobody is mourning the death of the mayor.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:15 pm

I'm sure they aren't.

Some more Trump items.

Pardoned officers convicted of war crimes, including murder.
All three cases had been championed by conservative lawmakers and media personalities as an overreaction to the chaos and confusion of wartime decisions. But critics have warned the moves could send the message that troops need not worry about following rules of engagement when fighting enemies abroad.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pent ... mes-cases/

Trump admits to misusing charity
and agreed to pay $2 million in damages. ...acknowledged using Trump Foundation funds on his businesses and to buy an autographed Tim Tebow football helmet and a $10,000 portrait of himself that was hung at his Doral, Fla., golf resort. The foundation raised $2.8M at a supposed veterans fundraiser in 2016, which Trump illegally diverted to his campaign. ...
That's from my print copy of The Week, but here's a link to the same story.
https://theweek.com/speedreads/877129/t ... judge-says
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:54 pm

dualstow wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:15 pm
Pardoned officers convicted of war crimes, including murder.
All three cases had been championed by conservative lawmakers and media personalities as an overreaction to the chaos and confusion of wartime decisions. But critics have warned the moves could send the message that troops need not worry about following rules of engagement when fighting enemies abroad.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pent ... mes-cases/
I guessed 2/3 of the names mentioned before clicking! Batting .666!
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:31 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:48 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:49 am

vnatale wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:44 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:47 am

dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm

Simonjester wrote:
i agree we should help them ..but..
there is more than one way to support the kurds. Boots on the ground may be the go to solution for those with a vested interest in the perma-war state, just not necessarily the best solution for Americans or the Kurds.

We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.

Or, maybe Trump has a thing for dictators and strongmen. There are things I like about the Trump administrations’ actions and by tech’s own definition of TDS, that disqualifies me. Putin, Kim, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and Erdogan. He loves the despots.
I hope we get something out of this move.


Note: I'm not a psychiatrist, so this is not medical advice.

There are different stages of TDS. We are still in the early days of research on this plague affecting society, but here's a rough guideline for diagnosing a patient:

Stage 1: Thinks Trump is bad and Trump supporters are deluded but not necessarily evil. Has absorbed some but not all of the propaganda about Trump's being racist, liking dictators, and the like. If shown some achievement that the patient would agree with if it were the work of someone other than Trump, e.g., VA reform, tax reform, or prison reform such as the First Step Act, agrees that it is a good achievement. The patient will improve his opinion of Trump slightly after this.

Stage 2: Knows Trump is evil and a threat to society, but probably not as bad as Hitler, whereas Trump supporters are dumb hicks like on Hee-Haw. Spouts some Democrat talking points easily but doesn't have all the current ones memorized. If shown an achievement as above, denigrates it as being not of any importance, or says Obama is responsible for it.

Stage 3: Trump is not only evil, but as bad as Hitler, and his supporters are Nazi sympathizers. Knows all of the current talking points and will bring them up on any topic that is even tangentially related to politics. If shown an achievement as above, says it is positively horrific even though the patient would have thought it was wonderful if someone else had done it.

Stage 4: Trump is worse than Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini combined, and his supporters are a combination of Nazis and KKK members. Keeps up with intraday changes to talking points and cannot discuss any topic without bringing up Trump and blaming him. Trump has turned the US into a dystopian horror for which the only possible remedy is the extermination of him and his followers.

Hope that helps.


Was ALL of this YOUR original writings? If so then if I was a political science professor and you were my student, I'd have to give you a grade of no less than A+.

Vinny


Yes, that was all my original writing. Thanks!


Your talent in doing that certainly dwarfs mine. If my hypothetical was reversed (you--the professor --assigning me--the student--the assignment to create the definition) I would have frozen in fear. Creativity in writing is NOT anywhere near a talent for me.

Vinny


I appreciate the compliment. I should mention that I have an advantage in having written hundreds of thousands of words for publication over the last several decades.


That would explain your overall excellent writing style. However, isn't creativity one of those talents you are either born with or not? Like being born athletic or not? In both cases you can somewhat work at being better at them but you'll just never achieve what someone can who was gifted with the talent. That is not to denigrate any hard work you put into cultivating your obvious talent. A lot of people never sufficiently develop their talents.

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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Libertarian666 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:00 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:31 pm

I appreciate the compliment. I should mention that I have an advantage in having written hundreds of thousands of words for publication over the last several decades.
That would explain your overall excellent writing style. However, isn't creativity one of those talents you are either born with or not? Like being born athletic or not? In both cases you can somewhat work at being better at them but you'll just never achieve what someone can who was gifted with the talent. That is not to denigrate any hard work you put into cultivating your obvious talent. A lot of people never sufficiently develop their talents.

Vinny
Obviously different people have different amounts of creativity but that doesn't mean that people can't improve it at least to some extent. It is definitely possible to learn problem-solving techniques, which can help one develop more creative solutions to problems. Is that the same as increasing creativity itself? I'm not sure it matters.

And of course it takes work to develop talent to the maximum extent. It's a shame that this work is lost when a talented person dies. I've spent probably around 100k hours on programming and related tasks such as writing about programming. I wish I could pass my knowledge along to others in its entirety, but of course that's impossible with current technology.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:58 am

dualstow wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:29 am
I’m going to untangle a few quotes here, as they’re getting kind of hard to match with the author.
(dual.)We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.
(Soph.)
Why does everyone think that migrating a group like the Hmong or the Kurds (or Syrians or Guatemalans for that matter) to the US is a good thing? It is a surefire way to wipe out a culture permanently, which I don't view as a good thing. Neither is uprooting an entire population from the land they've lived in for centuries.

WiseOne, I was just asking Simonjester if that was one of the things he had in mind.
Do you think Hmong culture has been “wiped out permanently”? From what I know about them (casual interview with someone who lived with them and studied them), they have been quite slow to assimilate. Which invites its own criticisms- but they’re alive.
WiseOne wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 am
Yes, I'm sure that my being against uprooting an entire population and transplanting them to the US would have me labeled as a "racist" in a heartbeat. It's ridiculous how that narrative is trotted out for just about everything immigration-related.

Another way that the idea of population transplants rubs me the wrong way: there's a hidden undercurrent of Western Superiority Syndrome in it. i.e. of course the Kurds would be better off in the US because their culture and the land they live in now are not up to our high standards. If anything, THAT attitude should be labeled as racist.
My own 2¢ for what it’s worth: I’m not advocating kidnapping the Kurds, or any population, and forcibly moving them to the States, wholesale. I would be in favor of fast-tracking immigration for those Kurds who want it. They’ve earned it. I know someone who lied about being a refugee to get “asylum” in the U.S. from China. I’d rather have the Kurds. No interview required.
Makes sense. The Kurds would definitely qualify for refugee status, as it was originally meant to be used. Honestly, that status should only be used when there has been official (ie Congressional) recognition of an appropriate situation in a specific location/population. Not just a free for all where anyone can come in by saying the magic word.

I was reacting mainly to suggestions that the solution to the Kurds' current problems is to move them here. That implies either directly going there expressly to encourage and facilitate migration, or even forcibly removing them from their homes. That, I am not in favor of.

As far as the Hmong...they certainly were facing an equivalent or worse situation. However, if they've all been moved here their culture and language are doomed. It may take a few generations, but it's inevitable.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:54 am

I agree with you as far as the ones in the U.S. go.
But, just going by Wikipedia -- not a perfect source, of course -- they still mostly live in Asia.
If you look at the religious persecution section, the ones still in Asia are still worse off. Christians and Animists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmong_peo ... ersecution
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:23 am

Ah you're right...bad example then, sorry. The Hmong mostly migrated to nearby Asian countries (Laos, Vietnam). Presumably they have a better chance of preserving their culture there.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by MarketIfTouched » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:30 pm

Looking for common ground...

We haven't entered any wars since the president took office.

Troop deployment in hot spots overseas seem to be reduced at least somewhat. Threats to the US seem to be lessened, again at least to some degree.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:34 pm

MarketIfTouched wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:30 pm
Looking for common ground...

We haven't entered any wars since the president took office.

Troop deployment in hot spots overseas seem to be reduced at least somewhat. Threats to the US seem to be lessened, again at least to some degree.
I WILL recognize that and give him credit for that. He is seemingly fulfilling his campaign promise on this one. And, I still maintain he's not still not even close to doing 1/10 the damage to this country and the world that Obama's predecessor did to both.

Vinny
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:22 am

vnatale wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:34 pm
MarketIfTouched wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:30 pm
Looking for common ground...

We haven't entered any wars since the president took office.

Troop deployment in hot spots overseas seem to be reduced at least somewhat. Threats to the US seem to be lessened, again at least to some degree.
I WILL recognize that and give him credit for that. He is seemingly fulfilling his campaign promise on this one. And, I still maintain he's not still not even close to doing 1/10 the damage to this country and the world that Obama's predecessor did to both.

Vinny
Agreed on all counts.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:45 pm

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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:56 am

Regardless of the guy's sources, the sentence preceding the quote that Libertarian666 posted perfectly states where I've been coming from:
Leave aside your anger over Trump’s Tweets and his overall persona. That’s just noise. (I try to mostly ignore noise when I analyze a decision.) So here’s the big question voters will have to answer: what’s actually worse in the country today than it was when Trump took over in 2016?
And speaking of noise, this WSJ article made an extremely interesting observation:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-imp ... 1576266959
The president clinched congressional Democratic support for his new North American trade deal, won backing for the creation of the U.S. Space Force and reached a limited trade deal with China.

But he also watched as Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee voted Friday to move ahead with their push to make him just the third president in U.S. history to be impeached, an effort that could energize voters in both parties, though odds are strong that Mr. Trump will be acquitted in the Senate.
My emphasis. On a positive note, it's nice to credit at least some of the Democrats in congress for knowing good policy when they see it. I just wish they'd be able to step back and rise above the noise created by (I suspect) a vocal, crazed minority who are doing exactly what Trump is doing with his tweets: engaging in outrageous behavior in order to grab headlines and score political points.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:35 am

MangoMan wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:18 am
dualstow wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:45 pm
^source: https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/all- ... f-mail-95/ ^

Interesting guy. :-)
You read him, too?
...
I merely googled the quote you supplied. When I see a quote without a link, I'm like your friendly neighborhood link bot. Can't help but go looking for the source. I like the quote.
When I first saw the name, I thought he was the "sheeeeeeeit" guy from The Wire, but that's Clay Davis.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:59 am

Joel Mathis asks,
Why is the U.S. still so intertwined with Saudi Arabia's government? America has been the world's top oil producer since 2013, and we no longer depend on the Saudis' oil. As a supposed ally, the Saudis are little better than our enemy Iran...
- from 'The Week'
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:02 pm

Any thoughts on Iran? On the assassination of Major-General Soleimani.
My not-very-nuanced basics:

FOR-
He’s been up to a lot of bad business that led to hundreds of American deaths
He was planning more of the same

AGAINST-
We’ve been watching him for a long time, and despite the damage done the consensus has always been, Not worth the retaliation
No authorization from Congress
———-
What can we add to the list?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:08 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:02 pm
Any thoughts on Iran? On the assassination of Major-General Soleimani.
My not-very-nuanced basics:

FOR-
He’s been up to a lot of bad business that led to hundreds of American deaths
He was planning more of the same

AGAINST-
We’ve been watching him for a long time, and despite the damage done the consensus has always been, Not worth the retaliation
No authorization from Congress
———-
What can we add to the list?
Key one you cite is: "No authorization from Congress".

Just continued abdication from Congress in letting the president (of either party) to solely make this decision.

Vinny
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Tyler » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:51 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:08 pm
Just continued abdication from Congress in letting the president (of either party) to solely make this decision.
This.

"The 542 drone strikes that Obama authorized killed an estimated 3,797 people, including 324 civilians. As he reportedly told senior aides in 2011: 'Turns out I’m really good at killing people. Didn’t know that was gonna be a strong suit of mine.'"
https://www.cfr.org/blog/obamas-final-drone-strike-data

One can certainly make an argument that no president should have these powers, but IMO anyone who suddenly harps about congressional approval only after Trump is in charge is nothing more than a partisan hack.

My take is that one way or another Soleimani deserved to die. Read social media, and most Iranians are actually cheering his death because they were terrified of the guy. Now whether it was the right geopolitical move for the US to make that happen, I have no earthly idea.
Last edited by Tyler on Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:44 pm

Tyler wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:51 pm
My take is that one way or another Soleimani deserved to die.
I think we can all agree on that. O0 Well, all of us except for a few protesters in Toronto.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:34 am

Tyler wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:51 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:08 pm
Just continued abdication from Congress in letting the president (of either party) to solely make this decision.
One can certainly make an argument that no president should have these powers, but IMO anyone who suddenly harps about congressional approval only after Trump is in charge is nothing more than a partisan hack.
It wasn't just Obama. The US started down this path in the early 1950s with the Korean war - excuse me, "police action". This is simply another political football to throw at Trump. If Obama did this he'd be hailed to the skies. Oh right he DID do this, didn't he? When he sent a special force to go after Osama bin Laden inside Pakistan, without Pakistan's permission or even knowledge?

That said - I think Congress should have the responsibility for authorizing any kind of military action on foreign soil that can result in injury or deaths. They've abdicated that responsibility and it's pretty clear they don't want it back.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by shekels » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:46 am

Military Target without massive civilian casualties.
They are going after the Head of the snake.


https://wtop.com/government/2020/01/pom ... s-in-iran/
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:58 am

shekels wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:46 am
Military Target without massive civilian casualties.
They are going after the Head of the snake.


https://wtop.com/government/2020/01/pom ... s-in-iran/
You’re quoting the Saudi request to Israel found in wikileaks, aren’t you? O0
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:51 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:02 pm
Any thoughts on Iran? On the assassination of Major-General Soleimani.
From what I can tell, the embassy was attacked and nearly breached by Iranian-backed militia. This is the guy who was the tip of the spear "backing" them. He's also been there for a long time as the head of Qud's Force, and probably was instrumental in the proliferation of EFPs. I think the only people grieving are former Hollywood muckety mucks.
No authorization from Congress
IMO the authorization from Congress that matters is having troops in Iraq AT ALL. If they're there, does Congress really need to be authorizing every operation? What if we just killed him coincidentally while he was fighting against us? That's really the only thing that might go bad is "Iranian retaliation" but I mean... c'mon. Is it really a slap in the face, or an escalation, when we kill a soldier, in a combat zone, while he is conducting his own military operations?

Either leave the theater all together, or take this stuff in stride.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:54 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:51 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:02 pm
Any thoughts on Iran? On the assassination of Major-General Soleimani.
From what I can tell, the embassy was attacked and nearly breached by Iranian-backed militia. This is the guy who was the tip of the spear "backing" them. He's also been there for a long time as the head of Qud's Force, and probably was instrumental in the proliferation of EFPs. I think the only people grieving are former Hollywood muckety mucks.
No authorization from Congress
IMO the authorization from Congress that matters is having troops in Iraq AT ALL. If they're there, does Congress really need to be authorizing every operation? What if we just killed him coincidentally while he was fighting against us? That's really the only thing that might go bad is "Iranian retaliation" but I mean... c'mon. Is it really a slap in the face, or an escalation, when we kill a soldier, in a combat zone, while he is conducting his own military operations?

Either leave the theater all together, or take this stuff in stride.
Your comments make WAY too much sense. You are now being tracked ........ ;)
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