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Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:55 pm
by Xan
Kriegsspiel wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:51 pm Kinda related

http://www.startribune.com/for-tech-wea ... fresh=true
In Asimov's Foundation series, a galactic empire in decline is depicted. One of the things that seems backwards to readers is that the faction with the OLDER fleet is considered to have the advantage.

Maybe it doesn't seem so backwards anymore...

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:10 pm
by vnatale
Kriegsspiel wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:08 pm Another kinda-related article, about laptops.

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/12 ... agazine%29
I guess it takes some people a while to understand the concept of value?

I quickly learned the value concept of computers when I was at a computer show and saw that two or three year old desktops sold at a faction of the cost of brand news ones with all the latest technology. The older could always do what I needed to do on them.

Vinny

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:15 am
by dualstow
Kriegsspiel wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:51 pm Kinda related

http://www.startribune.com/for-tech-wea ... fresh=true
That was a very interesting read. I wish i liked Linux better. I do put it on relatives’ laptops for fun when I’m visiting, but I still have to have Mac on my main devices.

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:05 am
by doodle
Simonjester wrote:
Xan wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:55 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:51 pm Kinda related

http://www.startribune.com/for-tech-wea ... fresh=true
In Asimov's Foundation series, a galactic empire in decline is depicted. One of the things that seems backwards to readers is that the faction with the OLDER fleet is considered to have the advantage.

Maybe it doesn't seem so backwards anymore...
great until tier 4 government/epa regs make them illegal and they come along and punch a hole in the engine block so they cant be used.. :'(
Ultimately whether a state has vehicle inspections or not might determine where I land. After working on this thing for over a year to get it running great, Im not planning on replacing it anytime soon. Although, I have to say the EV conversion idea is really cool...still too pricy at this point but maybe one-day there will be a plug and play kit available.
Simonjester wrote:
you referring to your van? or are you building a tractor? i am currently stalled out on rebuilding a jeep for the same reason, ca smog is impossible/not allowed on modified vehicles... and the farmers/loggers/construction workers here are being put out of business by the rules...

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:31 am
by glennds
vnatale wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:10 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:08 pm Another kinda-related article, about laptops.

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/12 ... agazine%29
I guess it takes some people a while to understand the concept of value?

I quickly learned the value concept of computers when I was at a computer show and saw that two or three year old desktops sold at a faction of the cost of brand news ones with all the latest technology. The older could always do what I needed to do on them.

Vinny
At some point did new software compatibility, lack of support, and other issues force you to upgrade? That's what I have always eventually encountered.
Right now my Apple TV which has been great, needs to be upgraded if I want HBO Max.
HBO Max replaced HBO Go which my Apple TV supported.
I get HBO through my cable subscription, but now cannot stream it through my Apple TV for on demand viewing unless I upgrade to the newer Apple TV that will let me download apps.
There is a workaround, which is to load the app on my phone and Airplay to the TV, but it's cumbersome.

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:51 am
by vnatale
glennds wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:31 am
vnatale wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:10 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:08 pm Another kinda-related article, about laptops.

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/12 ... agazine%29
I guess it takes some people a while to understand the concept of value?

I quickly learned the value concept of computers when I was at a computer show and saw that two or three year old desktops sold at a faction of the cost of brand news ones with all the latest technology. The older could always do what I needed to do on them.

Vinny
At some point did new software compatibility, lack of support, and other issues force you to upgrade? That's what I have always eventually encountered.
Right now my Apple TV which has been great, needs to be upgraded if I want HBO Max.
HBO Max replaced HBO Go which my Apple TV supported.
I get HBO through my cable subscription, but now cannot stream it through my Apple TV for on demand viewing unless I upgrade to the newer Apple TV that will let me download apps.
There is a workaround, which is to load the app on my phone and Airplay to the TV, but it's cumbersome.
No. As I stated elsewhere that is the beauty of the Windows operating systems over the Apple operating systems.

Once a new Windows operating system comes out all the applications for prior operating systems do not disappear, now becoming unobtainable.

Which is why I complain so loudly about Apple's GREEDY approach.

An app runs solely on an iPad 1. Does not access the internet.

Why do all the apps that run on that iPad 1 with no problems now get pulled from everywhere when Apple upgrades its operating system?

Those apps are STILL going to run with no problems on any iPad 1.

Vinny

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:12 am
by doodle
Simonjester wrote:
doodle wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:05 am
Simonjester wrote:
Xan wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:55 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:51 pm Kinda related

http://www.startribune.com/for-tech-wea ... fresh=true
In Asimov's Foundation series, a galactic empire in decline is depicted. One of the things that seems backwards to readers is that the faction with the OLDER fleet is considered to have the advantage.

Maybe it doesn't seem so backwards anymore...
great until tier 4 government/epa regs make them illegal and they come along and punch a hole in the engine block so they cant be used.. :'(
Ultimately whether a state has vehicle inspections or not might determine where I land. After working on this thing for over a year to get it running great, Im not planning on replacing it anytime soon. Although, I have to say the EV conversion idea is really cool...still too pricy at this point but maybe one-day there will be a plug and play kit available.
you referring to your van? or are you building a tractor? i am currently stalled out on rebuilding a jeep for the same reason, ca smog is impossible/not allowed on modified vehicles... and the farmers/loggers/construction workers here are being put out of business by the rules...
Yeah my battle wagon. Also gonna need to find a piece of land that will give me the freedom to do this.... I can pick up a broke down bus or box truck for a few thousand bucks. Spray foam it and clad interior and exterior. Got me a foundation, roof, and walls for a few thousand bucks. What with construction material prices you can't touch that.
Skoolie-Bus-Conversion-Cocobean-via-smallspaces.about.com-56a889235f9b58b7d0f322cd.jpg
Skoolie-Bus-Conversion-Cocobean-via-smallspaces.about.com-56a889235f9b58b7d0f322cd.jpg (40.57 KiB) Viewed 1814 times
I wish more places would relax building regs. When the average price of a home is above 300k they can kiss my ass if they think I'm gonna pay that for a place to store my underwear and sleep. If I gotta move out to slab city, so be it but I'm not gonna spend a fortune paying off some crapshack.

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:28 am
by doodle
you referring to your van? or are you building a tractor? i am currently stalled out on rebuilding a jeep for the same reason, ca smog is impossible/not allowed on modified vehicles... and the farmers/loggers/construction workers here are being put out of business by the rules...
If you do anything in California it's better to just resign yourself to EV. There are some pretty awesome retrofit stuff you can do with that. Ive seen it with VW campers. Of course, it's a bit pricy still.

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:34 pm
by doodle
Simonjester wrote:
doodle wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:28 am
you referring to your van? or are you building a tractor? i am currently stalled out on rebuilding a jeep for the same reason, ca smog is impossible/not allowed on modified vehicles... and the farmers/loggers/construction workers here are being put out of business by the rules...
If you do anything in California it's better to just resign yourself to EV. There are some pretty awesome retrofit stuff you can do with that. Ive seen it with VW campers. Of course, it's a bit pricy still.
an EV jeep wrangler would be cool.. no such thing as a kit for it though far as i know, and i don't know that a home build is remotely feasible. ultimately i will get out of the loony state and having a swapped engine wont matter, Cummins is making a small epa "compliant in all states diesel" for swap out projects but it is not as cost effective as dropping a rebuilt 4bt in one..
What engine is that?


4bt is cool...better get some loud speakers if you want to listen to anything other than cacophonous noise driving down the highway in a rag top jeep with a 4bt lol.

The ev motor seems pretty straightforward...basically just bolts on where the flywheel would have been. Everything behind that, tranny, driveshaft, differential stays the same. Seems like it would be easier to just connect to driveshaft with a u-joint...and drop the tranny out as well....I don't know why they usually leave tranny in. The batteries are the killer though. Maybe in a few more years.

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:55 pm
by doodle
Simonjester wrote: hard top jeep but noise is an issue for sure.. rattly, loud, heavy and smelly... the upside is gas mileage, torque, hp and torque...

i have some advantages/connections so i can rebuild one, and to at least some degree have it balanced and set up for performance which will kill some of the rattle and noise..

the crate option is this https://www.cummins.com/news/2017/06/07 ... lternative

batteries and range are a big hurdle for EV !
i am leaning strongly toward a overland type build, i am not big on the 4x4 rock crawler mud-bogger style builds (cool but i like getting into remote places and prefer reliability)
Didn't even think of weight. That is a monstrous piece of iron..I'm guessing over 600 pounds...maybe 7? Amazing engine though. I wish I had one in my battle wagon..tuned right it would probably nearly double my gas mileage.

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:00 pm
by doodle
doodle wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:55 pm
Simonjester wrote: hard top jeep but noise is an issue for sure.. rattly, loud, heavy and smelly... the upside is gas mileage, torque, hp and torque...

i have some advantages/connections so i can rebuild one, and to at least some degree have it balanced and set up for performance which will kill some of the rattle and noise..

the crate option is this https://www.cummins.com/news/2017/06/07 ... lternative

batteries and range are a big hurdle for EV !
i am leaning strongly toward a overland type build, i am not big on the 4x4 rock crawler mud-bogger style builds (cool but i like getting into remote places and prefer reliability)
Didn't even think of weight. That is a monstrous piece of iron..I'm guessing over 600 pounds...maybe 7? Amazing engine though. I wish I had one in my battle wagon..tuned right it would probably nearly double my gas mileage.
You could also Ls swap that thing. A 4.8 would be plenty peppy I'd think in a little jeep, pretty cheap used, and probably yield decent gas mileage. I think somewhere around 300 lb/ft of torque in powerband but that should be more than plenty for overlanding.

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:09 pm
by doodle
Simonjester wrote:
doodle wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:55 pm
Simonjester wrote: hard top jeep but noise is an issue for sure.. rattly, loud, heavy and smelly... the upside is gas mileage, torque, hp and torque...

i have some advantages/connections so i can rebuild one, and to at least some degree have it balanced and set up for performance which will kill some of the rattle and noise..

the crate option is this https://www.cummins.com/news/2017/06/07 ... lternative

batteries and range are a big hurdle for EV !
i am leaning strongly toward a overland type build, i am not big on the 4x4 rock crawler mud-bogger style builds (cool but i like getting into remote places and prefer reliability)
Didn't even think of weight. That is a monstrous piece of iron..I'm guessing over 600 pounds...maybe 7? Amazing engine though. I wish I had one in my battle wagon..tuned right it would probably nearly double my gas mileage.
503 lb For the crate engine..
That's pretty reasonable. Just looked up 4bt that thing is pushing 800 pounds! Lol

Probably more than half your dry weight will be engine!

Re: Service economy inspires crappy design

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:14 pm
by doodle
doodle wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:09 pm
Simonjester wrote:
doodle wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:55 pm
Simonjester wrote: hard top jeep but noise is an issue for sure.. rattly, loud, heavy and smelly... the upside is gas mileage, torque, hp and torque...

i have some advantages/connections so i can rebuild one, and to at least some degree have it balanced and set up for performance which will kill some of the rattle and noise..

the crate option is this https://www.cummins.com/news/2017/06/07 ... lternative

batteries and range are a big hurdle for EV !
i am leaning strongly toward a overland type build, i am not big on the 4x4 rock crawler mud-bogger style builds (cool but i like getting into remote places and prefer reliability)
Didn't even think of weight. That is a monstrous piece of iron..I'm guessing over 600 pounds...maybe 7? Amazing engine though. I wish I had one in my battle wagon..tuned right it would probably nearly double my gas mileage.
503 lb For the crate engine..
That's pretty reasonable. Just looked up 4bt that thing is pushing 800 pounds! Lol

Probably more than half your dry weight will be engine!
Hmm just looked up weight. They heavier than I thought. I would have expected something like a miata weight.