Coronavirus General Discussion

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I Shrugged
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by I Shrugged » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:37 pm

pp4me wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:10 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:58 pm
pugchief wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:07 am
Hal wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:46 pm
Interesting legal discussion on your rights in Australia.
How does this contrast with the USA?

https://www.reignitedemocracyaustralia. ... y-nikolic/

PS: Reinforces HB's advice to keep some assets abroad.....
What good is having assets abroad if you can't leave the country?
It’s a lot harder for them to be taken from you by court order or confiscation.

Plus you can leave surreptitiously, maybe.
I assume you mean the U.S. government but what about the Australian government?

If they are taking these extreme totalitarian measures during a pandemic how can you be so sure about what they will do in a financial crisis?
Diversification is the order of the day. I wouldn’t want it all in Australia.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:03 am

https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-ana ... ectionId=4

Aspirin Use Is Associated With Decreased Mechanical Ventilation, Intensive Care Unit Admission, and In-Hospital Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019

So add Aspirin to the list of low cost therapeutics to be demonized? Or, as one article put it, it's the next horse de-wormer.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:22 pm

pp4me wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:03 am
https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-ana ... ectionId=4

Aspirin Use Is Associated With Decreased Mechanical Ventilation, Intensive Care Unit Admission, and In-Hospital Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019

So add Aspirin to the list of low cost therapeutics to be demonized? Or, as one article put it, it's the next horse de-wormer.
You have it backward? Did you read the conclusion?

"Aspirin use may be associated with improved outcomes in hospitalized COVID-19 patients. However, a sufficiently powered randomized controlled trial is needed to assess whether a causal relationship exists between aspirin use and reduced lung injury and mortality in COVID-19 patients."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:19 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:22 pm
pp4me wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:03 am
https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-ana ... ectionId=4

Aspirin Use Is Associated With Decreased Mechanical Ventilation, Intensive Care Unit Admission, and In-Hospital Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019

So add Aspirin to the list of low cost therapeutics to be demonized? Or, as one article put it, it's the next horse de-wormer.
You have it backward? Did you read the conclusion?

"Aspirin use may be associated with improved outcomes in hospitalized COVID-19 patients. However, a sufficiently powered randomized controlled trial is needed to assess whether a causal relationship exists between aspirin use and reduced lung injury and mortality in COVID-19 patients."
What do I have backward?

I doubt that we are ever going to see a randomized controlled trial for Aspirin. Who would pay for it and how would you even conduct it?

Makes sense to me that Aspirin would be beneficial though, due to the anti-inflammatory and blood thinning effect. If I thought I had contracted Covid I think I would pop a few. I believe I read somewhere that someone having a stroke or a heart attack can have better outcomes by taking Aspirin early, So if you get into the cytokine storm or heart inflammation phase of COVID seems like it might help to me.
Last edited by pp4me on Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cortopassi
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:39 pm

I read your "demonized" as meaning the study showed a negative result to taking aspirin. It did not. It said it might be positive, but more studies were needed.

You are free to take aspirin if you think it will help, and if coagulation/clots are an issue with Covid, it should.

But I don't know what else you'd expect this small study result to say? Possible positive effect, larger study needed. Seems pretty positive to me.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:46 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:39 pm
I read your "demonized" as meaning the study showed a negative result to taking aspirin. It did not. It said it might be positive, but more studies were needed.

You are free to take aspirin if you think it will help, and if coagulation/clots are an issue with Covid, it should.

But I don't know what else you'd expect this small study result to say? Possible positive effect, larger study needed. Seems pretty positive to me.
By "demonized" I meant the way HCQ and ivermectin were demonized by the media, mostly because Trump took it. I don't know whether he took Aspirin or not. Not much to make with Aspirin either, so the drug companies won't like it too much if it works as well as whatever they are
creating does, although they can probably come up with a very special aspirin in a nice package that costs several hundred dollars for a pill.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Desert » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:00 pm

Trump's doc released the following:
Following PCR-confirmation of the President’s diagnosis, as a precautionary measure he received a single 8 gram dose of Regeneron’s polyclonal antibody cocktail. He completed the infusion without incident. In addition to the polyclonal antibodies, the President has been taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and a daily aspirin.
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbre ... 34a3ea5ddb

No mention of hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin, and I don't recall hearing anyone demonize aspirin after this.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:07 pm

I won't dispute there's likely money involved in the thinking.

And I won't dispute that Trump pushing those two originally probably led to resistance to studying them more.

But...given where we are today....I find it fascinating that people will shun a (can we agree and say -- proven?) vaccine in favor of something else that "might" help to some lesser degree than the vaccine.

Happy to shoot this back and forth. To me it is pretty obvious what choice I would make.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:16 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:07 pm
I won't dispute there's likely money involved in the thinking.

And I won't dispute that Trump pushing those two originally probably led to resistance to studying them more.

But...given where we are today....I find it fascinating that people will shun a (can we agree and say -- proven?) vaccine in favor of something else that "might" help to some lesser degree than the vaccine.

Happy to shoot this back and forth. To me it is pretty obvious what choice I would make.
O shoot, shoot, shoot! Obvious for me too. 😉. Besides, aspirin gives me heavy nose bleeds.
Everyone WILL live forever. The question is, will you be joyful and singing every moment for all eternity, or weeping, gnashing your teeth, and tormented every moment in the unquenchable fire for all eternity?. 😇 or 🤬
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by whatchamacallit » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:56 pm

Good video on ivermectin

Supposedly nih recommends but FDA doesn't

https://youtu.be/2F-Ml9gHnqA
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by whatchamacallit » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:13 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:07 pm
I won't dispute there's likely money involved in the thinking.

And I won't dispute that Trump pushing those two originally probably led to resistance to studying them more.

But...given where we are today....I find it fascinating that people will shun a (can we agree and say -- proven?) vaccine in favor of something else that "might" help to some lesser degree than the vaccine.

Happy to shoot this back and forth. To me it is pretty obvious what choice I would make.
I would personally recommend at least one dose of vaccine if you are over 30.

My biggest gripe right now is the mandates of course.

Being younger and studying how vaccine creates more antibodies when you are younger I saw no need for two. Should be my personal choice. It worked out as expected.

So now I wouldn't be good enough in some circles with my single dose and natural infection. Even though I am really better off than someone with 3 shots.

Then you have younger people with natural immunity already. For me personally, the risk would feel greater to get the vaccine after already having infection. You pretty much know you are getting an at least minor adverse reaction if you were already infected.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:27 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:07 pm
I won't dispute there's likely money involved in the thinking.

And I won't dispute that Trump pushing those two originally probably led to resistance to studying them more.

But...given where we are today....I find it fascinating that people will shun a (can we agree and say -- proven?) vaccine in favor of something else that "might" help to some lesser degree than the vaccine.

Happy to shoot this back and forth. To me it is pretty obvious what choice I would make.
I've been "fully vaccinated" since March, at least until the definition of that changes to three shots.

It's becoming more and more apparent that this doesn't prevent you from getting COVID however. The lack of any therapeutic is what causes people to look for something that might work but it always gets shot down. My nose doesn't bleed from taking an Aspirin but it can irritate my stomach so I
don't take it regularly like I used to when it was recommended. I will definitely take some if I get COVID unless they take it off the shelves (actually
I think I still have a bottle in the medicine cabinet - wonder if it loses effectiveness over time).
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:04 am

pp4me wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:27 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:07 pm
I won't dispute there's likely money involved in the thinking.

And I won't dispute that Trump pushing those two originally probably led to resistance to studying them more.

But...given where we are today....I find it fascinating that people will shun a (can we agree and say -- proven?) vaccine in favor of something else that "might" help to some lesser degree than the vaccine.

Happy to shoot this back and forth. To me it is pretty obvious what choice I would make.
I've been "fully vaccinated" since March, at least until the definition of that changes to three shots.

It's becoming more and more apparent that this doesn't prevent you from getting COVID however. The lack of any therapeutic is what causes people to look for something that might work but it always gets shot down. My nose doesn't bleed from taking an Aspirin but it can irritate my stomach so I
don't take it regularly like I used to when it was recommended. I will definitely take some if I get COVID unless they take it off the shelves (actually
I think I still have a bottle in the medicine cabinet - wonder if it loses effectiveness over time).
According to a friend who is a separations chemist, salicylic acid does not break down with time and has a much longer shelf life than the expiration date on the bottle indicates. But that's prob true of of a lot of things, so do your own diligence with aspirin and the rest.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:21 pm

pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:04 am


According to a friend who is a separations chemist, salicylic acid does not break down with time and has a much longer shelf life than the expiration date on the bottle indicates. But that's prob true of of a lot of things, so do your own diligence with aspirin and the rest.


I think I have prior stated here that I never go by expiration dates on food? That I view it as a scheme for food producers to sell more food.

For me I always ignore those expiration food dates and go strictly by what I see and what I smell when I open something past its expiration date.

Back on point...

In the 80s I asked my then doctor about expiration dates for medicines, which included aspirin.

He told me it's fine to continue to use them..that that is what he does. They just lose some of their potency with time. But that is something I assume everyone reading this already knew.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:25 pm

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180956936/

"When the team opened the cans, they found perfectly preserved meals of crackers, jam, cocoa powder, meatballs and beans. The hungry explorers weren't turning down food—even 60-year old treats—and brought it all back to their camp.

"They tasted and savored every piece of their find, even the 60-year old meat."

Interesting, but I think I'll pass on eating 60+ year old food. :o

On a similar subject, I think I remember something about an Antartic expedition from a hundred or so years ago, perhaps Shackleford?, where supplies were relatively recently found that included asprin. It was still okay as I recall. I did a quick Google search but did not find anything.
Everyone WILL live forever. The question is, will you be joyful and singing every moment for all eternity, or weeping, gnashing your teeth, and tormented every moment in the unquenchable fire for all eternity?. 😇 or 🤬
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:32 pm

pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:04 am
According to a friend who is a separations chemist, salicylic acid does not break down with time and has a much longer shelf life than the expiration date on the bottle indicates. But that's prob true of of a lot of things, so do your own diligence with aspirin and the rest.
This 2012 study reported in JAMA found that most medications (12 of the 14 they examined) retained their potency even 30-40 years after their expiration dates. Aspirin was one of the few whose potency did degrade, in fact it degraded to almost zero.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamain ... le/1377417
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:06 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:32 pm
pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:04 am
According to a friend who is a separations chemist, salicylic acid does not break down with time and has a much longer shelf life than the expiration date on the bottle indicates. But that's prob true of of a lot of things, so do your own diligence with aspirin and the rest.
This 2012 study reported in JAMA found that most medications (12 of the 14 they examined) retained their potency even 30-40 years after their expiration dates. Aspirin was one of the few whose potency did degrade, in fact it degraded to almost zero.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamain ... le/1377417
You just don't know who to trust these days. Imgagine that. :D

I'm going to stick with my friend. He has nothing to gain or lose by telling me that, and he is a world renowned lecturer on separations chemistry.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 am

pp4me wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:27 am
My nose doesn't bleed from taking an Aspirin but it can irritate my stomach so Idon't take it regularly like I used to when it was recommended.
You might try switching to willow bark. Same chemical composition as aspirin (salicylic acid), but it doesn't convert to the irritating compound until it passes your stomach. Drink it as a tea, or let it steep in EtOH for a couple of weeks, then use as a tincture. This works superbly for me.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:11 pm

Aussie GoldSmithPP - 25% PMGOLD, 75% VDCO
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy » Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:39 pm

Hal wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:11 pm
Surreal...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zKmC9lVqm0
If you squint while watching that video of people bundled up in wool coats alongside the railroad tracks, you can see scenes from Nazi Germany.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:34 am

So my county has a seven day avg of 127 new cases and 0 deaths. However, this weekend I still saw the vast majority of people wearing masks even though none of the establishments required it or even had any signs up referencing masks at all. Is this because the powers that be have not said people can take them off yet? In the summer the CDC said vaxxed people could take off the masks so everyone started taking them off and at one point seeing someone in a mask here was strange. Then in August they did an about-face and told people to wear masks again and probably 70% of people around here started wearing them. I feel like at this point until the CDC says you can take them off again, people are going to just keep them on. I still see the person out jogging, walking and riding a bike alone wearing a medical mask. I cannot fathom living my life according to what a bureaucrat or govt organization tells me to do.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:52 am

jalanlong wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:34 am

So my county has a seven day avg of 127 new cases and 0 deaths. However, this weekend I still saw the vast majority of people wearing masks even though none of the establishments required it or even had any signs up referencing masks at all. Is this because the powers that be have not said people can take them off yet? In the summer the CDC said vaxxed people could take off the masks so everyone started taking them off and at one point seeing someone in a mask here was strange. Then in August they did an about-face and told people to wear masks again and probably 70% of people around here started wearing them. I feel like at this point until the CDC says you can take them off again, people are going to just keep them on. I still see the person out jogging, walking and riding a bike alone wearing a medical mask. I cannot fathom living my life according to what a bureaucrat or govt organization tells me to do.


Yesterday I was at our softball field wherein we started our softball play-offs. There were six games yesterday.

Prior to the season starting in early September we were told that we all had to wear masks while near the bench area, an edict which has never been lifted.

I took nearly 300 pictures yesterday while I was there from about 10:30 AM to 5:30 PM.

I do not recall seeing one spectator, umpire, or player wearing a mask.

Again this all took place in extremely liberal Western Massachusetts.

Somehow ALL those people missed the message that they are supposed to live their lives according to what a bureaucrat or government organization tells them to do.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:17 am

vnatale wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:52 am
jalanlong wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:34 am
So my county has a seven day avg of 127 new cases and 0 deaths. However, this weekend I still saw the vast majority of people wearing masks even though none of the establishments required it or even had any signs up referencing masks at all. Is this because the powers that be have not said people can take them off yet? In the summer the CDC said vaxxed people could take off the masks so everyone started taking them off and at one point seeing someone in a mask here was strange. Then in August they did an about-face and told people to wear masks again and probably 70% of people around here started wearing them. I feel like at this point until the CDC says you can take them off again, people are going to just keep them on. I still see the person out jogging, walking and riding a bike alone wearing a medical mask. I cannot fathom living my life according to what a bureaucrat or govt organization tells me to do.
Yesterday I was at our softball field wherein we started our softball play-offs. There were six games yesterday.

Prior to the season starting in early September we were told that we all had to wear masks while near the bench area, an edict which has never been lifted.

I took nearly 300 pictures yesterday while I was there from about 10:30 AM to 5:30 PM.

I do not recall seeing one spectator, umpire, or player wearing a mask.

Again this all took place in extremely liberal Western Massachusetts.

Somehow ALL those people missed the message that they are supposed to live their lives according to what a bureaucrat or government organization tells them to do.
Well I am not exaggerating to any extent I do not believe. After the CDC said early in the summer that vaxxed could stop wearing masks, I saw a slow uncovering of faces around me. At first people kept wearing them and seemed proud to do it. But then slowly every week I saw fewer and fewer masks, including those in my office who claimed they were going to wear them all the time going forward. The weekend in late July before the CDC said masks need to be worn again, I saw virtually zero masks out. I commented to my wife that it felt strange to see someone who WAS wearing a mask. I would say mask wearing was below 5% that weekend from my observations.

The very next week (July 27th I believe) after the CDC made the announcement that even vaxxed needed to wear masks, the masks started going back on again slowly and about 3 weeks later it was up to around 60-70% masked and it has stayed at that level ever since. Even though no place requires it (besides hospitals of course) and sporting events are packed every weekend with unmasked people, I feel like the masks are going to stay on these 60-70% until the CDC says they can come off. I cannot imagine when that would be.

I would add that my area has some specific demographics that might make those CDC warnings followed more closely. For example, there are a lot of elderly in my part of town and specifically my neighborhood. They may be more likely to follow mask reccomendations.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:15 pm

My current experience here in IL is we are still wearing masks in stores, and in schools. I have seen a few individuals without in both locations, and nobody seems to be fazed. Even my wife, who originally was a big mask (and glove) wearer pulls it off the second we step out of a store.

I am assuming/hoping that with the downturns like we see below, and with the booster, that the requirements come off in the not too distant future.

I have not seen a positive case notification from the high school for 14 days now.

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by boglerdude » Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:21 am

Content dump.

TLDR losers love communism. Thats my summary, read it all if you want to: https://spandrell.com/2017/11/14/biological-leninism/

Internet killed newspaper sales, now NY/LA Times push whatever agenda their owners want:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/co ... ificantly/

Oh, global house arrest has costs? Delayed health care checkups and mental health?:
https://old.reddit.com/r/ems/comments/q ... _patients/

Chomsky lives long enough to become the villain:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownCritic ... rn_of_the/
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