Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

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murphy_p_t
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:31 pm

Speaking of liars, people I don't take medical guidance from, one of the high priests of covidism....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/0 ... nding-use/
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:44 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:31 pm
Speaking of liars, people I don't take medical guidance from, one of the high priests of covidism....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/0 ... nding-use/
Hundreds of other medical professionals, people who believe that Fauci did fund gain of function research and lie about it, also recommend taking the vaccine.

It sounds like you DO take advice from Fauci, that is, Fauci completely determines your course of action. You'll do the opposite of everything he says whether it's a good idea or not.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:46 pm

Lol
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:58 pm

Oh, you're referring to the medical professionals whose licenses are in jeopardy should they make recommendations outside of the covidian religion.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pugchief » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:06 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:44 pm


Hundreds of other medical professionals, people who believe that Fauci did fund gain of function research and lie about it, also recommend taking the vaccine.
Whether or not this statement is true, why is Fauci still calling the shots if he is a liar?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pp4me » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:16 pm

pugchief wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:06 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:44 pm


Hundreds of other medical professionals, people who believe that Fauci did fund gain of function research and lie about it, also recommend taking the vaccine.
Whether or not this statement is true, why is Fauci still calling the shots if he is a liar?
Isn't that part of the job description for high ranking government employees and politicians?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:19 pm

pugchief wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:06 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:44 pm


Hundreds of other medical professionals, people who believe that Fauci did fund gain of function research and lie about it, also recommend taking the vaccine.
Whether or not this statement is true, why is Fauci still calling the shots if he is a liar?
That's a great point, and he shouldn't be. The question seems to hinge on the definition of "gain-of-function". Seems that in order for him to categorically answer "no" as he did, if there's ANY debate about whether what was going on was considered "gain-of-function", he would have had to mention that in his testimony. So yes, he's probably guilty and should be fired/jailed.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pp4me » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:33 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:19 pm
pugchief wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:06 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:44 pm


Hundreds of other medical professionals, people who believe that Fauci did fund gain of function research and lie about it, also recommend taking the vaccine.
Whether or not this statement is true, why is Fauci still calling the shots if he is a liar?
That's a great point, and he shouldn't be. The question seems to hinge on the definition of "gain-of-function". Seems that in order for him to categorically answer "no" as he did, if there's ANY debate about whether what was going on was considered "gain-of-function", he would have had to mention that in his testimony. So yes, he's probably guilty and should be fired/jailed.
I'm sure Merrick Garland will get right on that as soon as he receives the referral from Senator Paul.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:57 am
"It sure looks like some mysterious something that happened around March made a big difference"

Winter lifted? More sunshine.
Drumpf was ousted so the media and science were back on the same team as the executive branch. Jan 21 might have been too obvious.

Side question.....what do late night "comedians" and SNL do now without Trump?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:00 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:56 am
murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:21 pm
Further reason for skepticism...

How was the pharma industry able to create the inoculation for Wuhan in such record time? Even though they've never developed a successful inoculation for HIV and the common cold.
What's truly remarkable is that not one, but at least four pharma companies claim to have the solution. Each one in record breaking time!

Has Alice gone to Wonderland!?!?
Murphy....the first time you correctly quoted anyone and its yourself. How is this possible?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:04 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:44 pm
murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:31 pm
Speaking of liars, people I don't take medical guidance from, one of the high priests of covidism....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/0 ... nding-use/
Hundreds of other medical professionals, people who believe that Fauci did fund gain of function research and lie about it, also recommend taking the vaccine.

It sounds like you DO take advice from Fauci, that is, Fauci completely determines your course of action. You'll do the opposite of everything he says whether it's a good idea or not.
Ahaha good point Xan. I used to buy gold whenever this commodities "analyst" would say to sell it on CNBC. Gartman was his name and he totally determined my purchases.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:04 pm

jswinner wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:54 pm
You can also say when 100% are vaccinated, 100% of those few hospitalizations will be vaccinated, and back to is it with or because of...
See this https://twitter.com/i/status/1417323212279631873
Well Tortoise, this will get you on your way. I'll help you, but if you are too lazy to do basic fact checking that's your problem not mine.

Factors for analysis
- Percent vaccinated in the eligible population set
- Percent efficacy of the vaccine
- Efficacy as determined by 0, 1, or 2 jabs
- Population set...UK, vaccine type used UK, efficacy stats UK

There you go, crank the numbers and report back. Please show your math and sources for full credit.

Data is data and if you think the entire world is fudging it, again your problem not mine.

Critical analysis requires checking sources you believe and those you don't. Rational choice assumes making factually based decisions.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:28 pm

Kbg wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:04 pm
jswinner wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:54 pm
You can also say when 100% are vaccinated, 100% of those few hospitalizations will be vaccinated, and back to is it with or because of...
See this https://twitter.com/i/status/1417323212279631873
Well Tortoise, this will get you on your way. I'll help you, but if you are too lazy to do basic fact checking that's your problem not mine.
Don't mistake how slow he is for being lazy. He's a tortoise for God's sake!

Thanks for helping us KBG. I would say of all the posters I've set on ignore, I'm more apt to peek at your posts than others because they so pleasant and useful.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:00 pm

Kbg wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:04 pm
jswinner wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:54 pm
You can also say when 100% are vaccinated, 100% of those few hospitalizations will be vaccinated, and back to is it with or because of...
See this https://twitter.com/i/status/1417323212279631873
Well Tortoise, this will get you on your way. I'll help you, but if you are too lazy to do basic fact checking that's your problem not mine.

Factors for analysis
- Percent vaccinated in the eligible population set
- Percent efficacy of the vaccine
- Efficacy as determined by 0, 1, or 2 jabs
- Population set...UK, vaccine type used UK, efficacy stats UK

There you go, crank the numbers and report back. Please show your math and sources for full credit.

Data is data and if you think the entire world is fudging it, again your problem not mine.

Critical analysis requires checking sources you believe and those you don't. Rational choice assumes making factually based decisions.

is there a corrective statement which tortoise was intentionally hiding amongst this post, as you previously suggested?

Or are you going to apologize for implying that tortoise is intentionally lying?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:02 pm

Kbg wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:35 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:31 am
Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:36 am
That could potentially cause an undercount of cases, but as Sophie has pointed out, "cases" don't necessarily mean very much. There are still two more columns in Corto's graph, hospitalizations and deaths:
I see that nobody has commented yet on the article I linked in my previous post. I'll post it again here in case anyone missed it:

Reuters: 40% of people being admitted to UK hospitals for Covid-19 are fully vaccinated

How is it possible that in the UK, 40% of Covid hospitalizations are fully vaccinated people, yet supposedly in L.A. County only 1.3% of Covid hospitalizations are fully vaccinated people? How might we explain that massive discrepancy?
Of course, you don't post the guy's corrective statement fully.

As Benjamin Franklin said...half truths are the greatest of lies.

For reference
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Tortoise » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:57 am

Kbg wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:04 pm
Well Tortoise, this will get you on your way. I'll help you, but if you are too lazy to do basic fact checking that's your problem not mine.

Factors for analysis
- Percent vaccinated in the eligible population set
- Percent efficacy of the vaccine
- Efficacy as determined by 0, 1, or 2 jabs
- Population set...UK, vaccine type used UK, efficacy stats UK

[…pontificating, evasive non-answer continues…]
I was hoping for some edification, but sadly, I actually felt myself getting dumber as I read your pompous deflection.

I simply linked to a very short Reuters article reporting a statement made by the UK’s Chief Scientific Adviser. And you replied claiming that my sharing of the article somehow makes me (via a famous quote) a liar spreading half-truths. So I asked you to explain your accusation, and instead of a specific answer, you posted the general, condescending lecture above.

I would ask you to try again, but I wouldn’t want you to overexert yourself.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I need to seek at least some edification by watching some Man in the High Castle to learn some WWII military history.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:25 am

It sure seems like there was some kind of serious misunderstanding.

I don't see anything in bad faith about what Tortoise posted. Kbg, could you either specifically explain how Tortoise did something disingenuous, or apologize for the mistake? One or the other is undoubtedly called for.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:40 am

Xan wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:25 am
It sure seems like there was some kind of serious misunderstanding.

I don't see anything in bad faith about what Tortoise posted. Kbg, could you either specifically explain how Tortoise did something disingenuous, or apologize for the mistake? One or the other is undoubtedly called for.
Grudging apology given, criticism for lack of context remains. The intent of the post was perhaps not deliberately misleading but the opinion (bias) of the poster is clear. Bias or motive should always be taken into account when reading anything, including my posts which are biased. We are all biased due to our experiences of life, simply unavoidable. If this thread is simply for entertainment purposes then I'll up my apology level to sincere. If we are here to have a serious discussion, then my expectation is that posters take a bit of time and evaluate their sources.

Generally Reuters is considered a relatively unbiased publisher of news and within their posts/articles they normally just stick to the facts of what happened, unlike almost all American news sources these days. So let's give the source a good grade. Now for the critique, 40% of hospitalizations for people WITH the vaccination??? What is going on? That seems completely off the standard news narrative. Personally, it caught my attention immediately and that's why I reacted (after doing some research).

Let's run the numbers as I suggested

UK vaccination rates are here https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833 Let's call it 88% Other sources have it in the lower 80s (Side note: throw in minors and they are mid to high 50s)
UK efficacy rate https://www.statista.com/chart/25116/ne ... nation-uk/ high 90s
But then what is this efficacy/effectiveness stuff...https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid ... -explained

Simply put...the math matters and when most of the eligible population have been vaccinated it goes without saying that more people "with" the vaccination will be hospitalized. If 100% have had the vax then 100% who will be hospitalized for any reason will be in that category.

Here is a SUPER helpful concept...http://www.differencebetween.net/langua ... -relative/

So let's put this all together in a series of nice data derived graphs

https://ourworldindata.org/local-covid-uk

The middle right hand graph is "the money" graphic

While you peruse the graphs don't forget that SUPER helpful concept of relative vs. absolute, it matters.

I really need to stay out of this thread, LOL. Speaking of bias...I have one. Ignore the words, go to the data. This is a heinously political, poorly reported on and insanely contentious issue that really shouldn't be. Everything you need to know REALLY is in the data and the sample size for statistical purposes is ginormous now. It ain't Jan-Mar of 2020 anymore when we didn't really know what we were dealing with.

Returning to the High Castle now. ;-)
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jswinner » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:50 am

Percent is mostly bad math. More in-depth from the graphic posted earlier.

https://youcanknowthings.com/2021/07/21 ... this-mean/
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:12 am

Small rant...one of the things that absolutely drives me bonkers is what I'll label vaccine inconsistency.

If someone is a hardcore anti-vaxer, I think they're nuts, poorly informed and not helpful from a public health perspective...but at the end of the day it's deeply held belief and I grudgingly accept their right to have and act on that belief. In short, I don't agree but I get it.

What is simply mind blowing to me is someone who will happily get every other vaccine recommended but not this one.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:13 am

jswinner wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:50 am

Percent is mostly bad math. More in-depth from the graphic posted earlier.

https://youcanknowthings.com/2021/07/21 ... this-mean/


OUTSTANDING!

Many thanks for providing this to us...
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:22 am

Kbg wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:40 am
Everything you need to know REALLY is in the data and the sample size for statistical purposes is ginormous now. It ain't Jan-Mar of 2020 anymore when we didn't really know what we were dealing with.
There is the main issue. There is a subset of people, on this forum and in society, that is utterly convinced this is some sort of plot, for any number of reasons.

And given that, the powers that be have the ability to influence numbers and stats across states, countries and the world to get to their goal.

So these people believe nothing, and distrust every official number. They believe everything is fake, or massaged, for generally nefarious reasons. And there will be no swaying them, for the most part.

I've long ago given up thinking there's a conspiracy behind everything. Makes life more enjoyable. Yep, I know some people would say that's taking the blue pill. Fine with me.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by sophie » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:53 am

Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:19 pm
pugchief wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:06 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:44 pm


Hundreds of other medical professionals, people who believe that Fauci did fund gain of function research and lie about it, also recommend taking the vaccine.
Whether or not this statement is true, why is Fauci still calling the shots if he is a liar?
That's a great point, and he shouldn't be. The question seems to hinge on the definition of "gain-of-function". Seems that in order for him to categorically answer "no" as he did, if there's ANY debate about whether what was going on was considered "gain-of-function", he would have had to mention that in his testimony. So yes, he's probably guilty and should be fired/jailed.
Not quite Xan...there is indeed a precise definition of GOF research. What isn't clear is whether NIH funds were used in Wuhan for gain of function research. I had taken a peek at the paper that reports of the gain of function work. The GOF work was only a portion of what was reported, and the methods section only describes the animal facilities & oversight at University of North Carolina. That leaves open the question of what exactly was done in Wuhan - and why the Wuhan investigator is on the author list. If any experimental work was done in Wuhan, it would have been the reviewer's job to ask that question, clarify exactly what was done there, and demand that the Wuhan lab be described in Methods. Both editor and reviewers dropped the ball on that - and worse, no matter where the GOF work was done, it's pretty clear it violated the NIH ban on such research which was active at the time. All that probably needs to be looked into.

So it's hard to know what Fauci's responsibility was, exactly. I do fault him for not being up front on the funding issue. All NIH had to do is provide the "statement of work" that always accompanies subcontracts. Until we see that document, and clarify exactly what the Wuhan lab did for that 2014 paper, we don't know if Fauci lied or not. If he did, of course he should be fired immediately. But don't hold your breath!
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pugchief » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:12 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:22 am
Kbg wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:40 am
Everything you need to know REALLY is in the data and the sample size for statistical purposes is ginormous now. It ain't Jan-Mar of 2020 anymore when we didn't really know what we were dealing with.
There is the main issue. There is a subset of people, on this forum and in society, that is utterly convinced this is some sort of plot, for any number of reasons.

And given that, the powers that be have the ability to influence numbers and stats across states, countries and the world to get to their goal.

So these people believe nothing, and distrust every official number. They believe everything is fake, or massaged, for generally nefarious reasons. And there will be no swaying them, for the most part.

I've long ago given up thinking there's a conspiracy behind everything. Makes life more enjoyable. Yep, I know some people would say that's taking the blue pill. Fine with me.
Corto, it's like the government of IL telling you they have a balanced budget every year. They know it's a lie, but they say it anyway. They fudge the numbers and don't count things that should be counted, so they can come up with any numbers they want. How is this CoVid stuff any different?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:58 am

pugchief wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:12 am

Corto, it's like the government of IL telling you they have a balanced budget every year. They know it's a lie, but they say it anyway. They fudge the numbers and don't count things that should be counted, so they can come up with any numbers they want. How is this CoVid stuff any different?
One state government, one national government (or maybe a few allied governments), sure I can believe there is some level of deception to make things look better (or worse) than something is.

But we are talking generally worldwide here, and moving much more into Africa now. Just like people who still believe we never landed on the moon, even though there were half a million people working the program, I believe it becomes much much harder to somehow come up with a coordinated plan to report incorrect numbers, on purpose.

The mind games that people need to play on themselves to have the data fit their view is at times quite amazing.

A simple example came to mind -- when Covid first started, and we were all scared shitless, and people were getting welded into their houses in China -- friends who now lean heavily toward it was overhyped, most people don't get sick too badly, didn't take the vaccine, etc, were back then speculating China was covering up a massively larger number of deaths.

So which is it? Is the US under-reporting, over-reporting, or doing the best they can? How about China? How about India? How about Brazil? Europe? Asia? All colluding to hype numbers in some cases, and under-hype in others? Do you have a scorecard on believability or who are in cahoots with each other?

Not trying to be a jerk.
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