Chauvin Verdict

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I Shrugged
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:19 pm

I don't have an opinion on the verdict itself, but I imagine there were pressures felt.

I am sure the same dynamics were at work 60 years ago if a black man was charged with rape or something in Mississippi. Namely, the jurors would be afraid of the repercussions if they didn't vote the way the mob wanted them to vote.

When that is happening, we don't have rule of law. The more that we are able to hear and examine views that dissent from the establishment, the more able we are to see, if we dare to, that the US doesn't really operate under rule of law. Application of the law is highly political. And the left in particular, predisposed as they are to being authoritarian, love this because they now hold the levers of power everywhere in society.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:28 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:22 pm
pp4me wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:12 pm
In the aftermath of the verdict I'm getting the impression that a lot of people on the left, both politicians and the MSM, are actually disappointed.

So go figure.
They immediately released more reasons to riot right after. There will be riots. An excuse will emerge. The excuse is immaterial.
https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/13 ... 3530068994

Context: the photo in Lebron James' tweet is of the Columbus, OH cop that shot a 16 year-old black girl that was about to stab another girl, potentially saving the second girl's life. https://nypost.com/2021/04/21/bodycam-f ... teen-girl/ (warning, graphic video)

https://twitter.com/ValerieJarrett/stat ... 6621174786
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by pugchief » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:01 pm


He already deleted the tweet. If you can paraphrase, that would help
flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:28 pm
Context: the photo in Lebron James' tweet is of the Columbus, OH cop that shot a 16 year-old black girl that was about to stab another girl, potentially saving the second girl's life. https://nypost.com/2021/04/21/bodycam-f ... teen-girl/ (warning, graphic video)

https://twitter.com/ValerieJarrett/stat ... 6621174786
So Jarrett apparently thinks the cop should just let the two black girls kill each other? :o
See, the problem is no matter what happens, the left is outraged. You can't f*ing win. >:(
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by pp4me » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:01 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:28 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:22 pm
pp4me wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:12 pm
In the aftermath of the verdict I'm getting the impression that a lot of people on the left, both politicians and the MSM, are actually disappointed.

So go figure.
They immediately released more reasons to riot right after. There will be riots. An excuse will emerge. The excuse is immaterial.
https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/13 ... 3530068994

Context: the photo in Lebron James' tweet is of the Columbus, OH cop that shot a 16 year-old black girl that was about to stab another girl, potentially saving the second girl's life. https://nypost.com/2021/04/21/bodycam-f ... teen-girl/ (warning, graphic video)

https://twitter.com/ValerieJarrett/stat ... 6621174786
This is why I think we are moving as a country in a direction that will not end well if we continue on the same path. Things could change, they often do, but I think it is prudent to prepare for the worst. I think HB had this in mind with the PP so we are all doing well for ourselves to follow his advice.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:11 pm

pugchief wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:01 pm

He already deleted the tweet. If you can paraphrase, that would help
Had a photo of the cop with the caption “YOU’RE NEXT (hourglass emoji) #ACCOUNTABILITY”

Still comes up for me but maybe it’s cached or something.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by tomfoolery » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:28 pm

How come every time black people stand up for their rights in a peaceful protest it’s deemed a riot? Can anyone here tell me the answer without white supremacist-splaining?
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by tomfoolery » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:29 pm

pugchief wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:01 pm

So Jarrett apparently thinks the cop should just let the two black girls kill each other? :o
See, the problem is no matter what happens, the left is outraged. You can't f*ing win. >:(
Such a tragedy. The girl was just a child. Imagine how her family and community must feel and I grieve and hurt along with them.

Just another reminder of the disproportionate police violence faced by black and Latino Americans.

I read this girl was in foster care, making her particularly vulnerable. Tragic given the hopeful step forward we as a nation took by convicting Derek Chauvin.

I blame Trump for dismantling Teacher's Unions, because we need strong unions to attract the best possible candidates for teacher positions and help at-risk children like the victim here.

Also something about climate crisis.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by glennds » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:47 pm

pp4me wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:21 pm

In regards to reasonable doubt, if the Dream Team could convince a jury that there was reasonable doubt in the O.J. Simpson case then surely some good defense lawyers could have done it in this one.

This case actually gave me a flashback to that one. Same level of interest and suspense at the end wondering what the verdict would be and if it would result in riots. And then there were all the black people rejoicing after the verdict in both cases. Despite different verdicts, the outcomes were somewhat similar to me.
This would have been an excellent point if there had been video of O.J. killing Nicole and yet the dream team still got him acquitted.

Maybe the better example to make your point would be the superlawyers who got the four officers acquitted in the Rodney King beating where there WAS video.
I mean, they surrounded him and mercilessly beat the f*** out of him, like an animal, all caught on video. And they still got acquitted.
Following your logic, if it was okay then, why isn't it okay now?
Last edited by glennds on Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by tomfoolery » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:52 pm

glennds wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:47 pm
pp4me wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:21 pm

In regards to reasonable doubt, if the Dream Team could convince a jury that there was reasonable doubt in the O.J. Simpson case then surely some good defense lawyers could have done it in this one.

This case actually gave me a flashback to that one. Same level of interest and suspense at the end wondering what the verdict would be and if it would result in riots. And then there were all the black people rejoicing after the verdict in both cases. Despite different verdicts, the outcomes were somewhat similar to me.
This would have been an excellent point if there had been video of O.J. killing Nicole and yet the dream team still got him acquitted.

Maybe the better example to make your point would be the superlawyers who got the four officers acquitted in the Rodney King beating where there WAS video.
I mean, they surrounded him and mercilessly beat the f*** out of him, like an animal, all caught on video. And they still got acquitted.
To your point, if it was okay then, why isn't it okay now?
Oh please, OJ Simpson is whiter than me, and I turn beat red in the sun after a few minutes thanks to my Irish heritage. We’re talking about how blacks get poorly treated in our criminal justice system not wealthy mostly-white blacks like OJ.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by Maddy » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:29 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:15 pm
And since unfair trials of young black men are about 99x more likely than the unfair trial of a cop, per your very own description, I look forward to seeing you continually share their advocate for their well-being on this forum, as well as ridicule the non-leftist police/criminal-justice forces in our system as uniquely dangerous.
What I expect to continue to do is to advocate for a principled system of justice. I don't give a damn who the defendant is.

You really don't get it, do you?
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by pugchief » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:32 pm

It turns out that LeBron's tweet was deleted ::)

LeBron James is a buffoon. For years, he has used his power and incomplete information to tell his worshippers the country is evil. Today, he used that power, that platform, to spread a lie and put a police officer in danger.

LeBron tweeted to his 50 million followers a full photo of the police officer* who fatally shot Ma’Khia Bryan in Ohio, saying the officer is “next.” By “next,” he means a prison sentence for perhaps the rest of his life, a la Derek Chauvin. What LeBron fails to mention, or probably does not even know, is that the officer shot Bryan to save the life of the girl she was about to stab and kill. The officer did his job.

LeBron James has now deleted the tweet calling for the cop to be arrested for shooting the woman armed with a knife, but don’t worry. The internet is forever.

I blurred out the officer’s face on purpose. https://pic.twitter.com/dbv5dPrZ87
— David Hookstead (@dhookstead) April 21, 2021

Did you even watch the video, bud? He shot a woman armed with a knife trying to kill an unarmed person! Here’s his perspective. This is even more shameful than you shutting up and dribbling for your boy Chairman Xi in China. https://t.co/qruKtwPji0 https://pic.twitter.com/0nRa8wPecS

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) April 21, 2021

Though the officer saved a life, LeBron tweets out the full image of him to ensure no matter what events follow, this man will have a target on his back. Because of LeBron, the officer will never be able to walk in public safely again. You might ask, “What if he isn’t charged?” LeBron is one of the most influential individuals in the world. No matter what, millions of his fans will believe what he says. It takes just one, and LeBron just convinced millions with a lie.

This is shameful. The NBA should address this, but it won’t. Like LeBron, the NBA and all its minions in the media are cowards.

UPDATE: LeBron has deleted the tweet. Maybe he should’ve read the story before commenting?

*No need to report the officer’s name.
source
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by pp4me » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:22 pm

glennds wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:47 pm
pp4me wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:21 pm

In regards to reasonable doubt, if the Dream Team could convince a jury that there was reasonable doubt in the O.J. Simpson case then surely some good defense lawyers could have done it in this one.

This case actually gave me a flashback to that one. Same level of interest and suspense at the end wondering what the verdict would be and if it would result in riots. And then there were all the black people rejoicing after the verdict in both cases. Despite different verdicts, the outcomes were somewhat similar to me.
This would have been an excellent point if there had been video of O.J. killing Nicole and yet the dream team still got him acquitted.
I think the trail of O.J's blood leading right up to his door, blood on his car, the bloody glove et.al was more powerful evidence than the Youtube video which is open to interpretation. If you want to say that a video of O.J. cutting up Nicole and Ron Goodman is the same as the video in this case then that's your right. It's a free country but I disagree.
glennds wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:47 pm

Maybe the better example to make your point would be the superlawyers who got the four officers acquitted in the Rodney King beating where there WAS video.

I mean, they surrounded him and mercilessly beat the f*** out of him, like an animal, all caught on video. And they still got acquitted.
Following your logic, if it was okay then, why isn't it okay now?
In both cases, the situation was escalated not by the police, but by the man resisting arrest, as are most of these stories. I don't think the constitution guarantees a right to anybody to violently resist arrest by the police without fear of consequences when there is evidence that a crime has been committed or there is an outstanding warrant. Actually, it's the duty of the police to arrest such people. They would probably get fired if they didn't do it.

As far as I can recall, some of the policemen in the Rodney King case were tried and found guilty on civil rights charges which would have almost certainly been the case with Chauvin if he had been acquitted.
Last edited by pp4me on Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by SomeDude » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:28 pm

Maddy wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:29 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:15 pm
And since unfair trials of young black men are about 99x more likely than the unfair trial of a cop, per your very own description, I look forward to seeing you continually share their advocate for their well-being on this forum, as well as ridicule the non-leftist police/criminal-justice forces in our system as uniquely dangerous.
What I expect to continue to do is to advocate for a principled system of justice. I don't give a damn who the defendant is.

You really don't get it, do you?
He's trolling you. It will get sillier and sillier if you feed it. Now we're at the point where he will call you a hypocrite if you don't take an interest in every public case and learn about it and be consistent in your outrage etc.

This is a trolling tactic. When trolls arguments fall apart or are exposed they just switch to some other nonsense, usually personal about the person who exposed their logical inconsistencies or other weakness in their fake position.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by vnatale » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:29 pm

pp4me wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:22 pm

glennds wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:47 pm

pp4me wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:21 pm


In regards to reasonable doubt, if the Dream Team could convince a jury that there was reasonable doubt in the O.J. Simpson case then surely some good defense lawyers could have done it in this one.

This case actually gave me a flashback to that one. Same level of interest and suspense at the end wondering what the verdict would be and if it would result in riots. And then there were all the black people rejoicing after the verdict in both cases. Despite different verdicts, the outcomes were somewhat similar to me.


This would have been an excellent point if there had been video of O.J. killing Nicole and yet the dream team still got him acquitted.


I think the trail of O.J's blood leading right up to his door, blood on his car, the bloody glove et.al was more powerful evidence than the Youtube video which is open to interpretation. If you want to say that a video of O.J. cutting up Nicole and Ron Goodman is the same as the video in this case then that's your right. It's a free country but I disagree.

glennds wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:47 pm


Maybe the better example to make your point would be the superlawyers who got the four officers acquitted in the Rodney King beating where there WAS video.

I mean, they surrounded him and mercilessly beat the f*** out of him, like an animal, all caught on video. And they still got acquitted.
Following your logic, if it was okay then, why isn't it okay now?


In both cases, the situation was escalated not by the police, but by the man resisting arrest, as are most of these stories. I don't think the constitution guarantees a right to anybody to violently resist arrest by the police without fear of consequences when there is evidence that a crime has been committed or there is an outstanding warrant. Actually, it's the duty of the police to arrest such people. They would probably get fired if they didn't do it.

As far as I can recall, some of the policemen in the Rodney King case were tried and found guilty on civil rights charges which would have almost certainly been the case with Chauvin if he had been acquitted.


You must have missed this from a month ago?

Vinny


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-flo ... 7-million/

Minneapolis approves "historic" $27 million settlement with George Floyd's family
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by glennds » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:50 pm

pp4me wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:22 pm
glennds wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:47 pm
pp4me wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:21 pm

In regards to reasonable doubt, if the Dream Team could convince a jury that there was reasonable doubt in the O.J. Simpson case then surely some good defense lawyers could have done it in this one.

This case actually gave me a flashback to that one. Same level of interest and suspense at the end wondering what the verdict would be and if it would result in riots. And then there were all the black people rejoicing after the verdict in both cases. Despite different verdicts, the outcomes were somewhat similar to me.
This would have been an excellent point if there had been video of O.J. killing Nicole and yet the dream team still got him acquitted.
I think the trail of O.J's blood leading right up to his door, blood on his car, the bloody glove et.al was more powerful evidence than the Youtube video which is open to interpretation. If you want to say that a video of O.J. cutting up Nicole and Ron Goodman is the same as the video in this case then that's your right. It's a free country but I disagree.
glennds wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:47 pm

Maybe the better example to make your point would be the superlawyers who got the four officers acquitted in the Rodney King beating where there WAS video.

I mean, they surrounded him and mercilessly beat the f*** out of him, like an animal, all caught on video. And they still got acquitted.
Following your logic, if it was okay then, why isn't it okay now?
In both cases, the situation was escalated not by the police, but by the man resisting arrest, as are most of these stories. I don't think the constitution guarantees a right to anybody to violently resist arrest by the police without fear of consequences when there is evidence that a crime has been committed or there is an outstanding warrant. Actually, it's the duty of the police to arrest such people. They would probably get fired if they didn't do it.

As far as I can recall, some of the policemen in the Rodney King case were tried and found guilty on civil rights charges which would have almost certainly been the case with Chauvin if he had been acquitted.
I suppose what I was attempting to say was that the O.J. case was a singular murder case, albeit involving a famous person. Nobody can say it was emblematic of a larger societal issue whether that issue is race anchored, or whether the issue has to do with police tactics and powers without regard to race.
Suggesting the Rodney King case as a comparison point was because it shares those very same characteristics with the Chauvin case. The act being caught on video was yet another similarity, and raised the implicit question about what we don't see police doing because no video captured it. If there had been no video, I'm not sure most of us would have ever heard of either George Floyd or Rodney King.

I just fail to see where O.J. fits in as a comparison, but if you do, hey, like you say it's a free country.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by Maddy » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:13 am

What a self-important prick, telling me who I have to "advocate for" and who I have to "ridicule" in order to qualify as a defender of individual liberties.

This thread couldn't make more clear that, as with the proposition "All Lives Matter," the proposition that ALL are entitled to due process is, to the Left, a heresy. This is why principle itself is fundamentally a problem for progressives. Their system of thought requires the flexibility to choose, arbitrarily, what rules will apply to whom.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by sophie » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:57 am

In addition to Maddy's excellent points about how critically important it is to keep judicial proceedings fair to everyone (not just selectively favored groups or people), I've been thinking about the long-term ramifications of this conviction.

If I were a police officer, I'd be terrified of what might happen every time I got a call involving a potentially violent black suspect.

The natural response is going to be to just let it go. Don't do anything. Let the violent black suspect go. In my city, they can't be held anyway as we now have effectively a "catch and release" policy for violent criminals.

Can no one understand how that is going to play out?? Obviously, crime is going to go through the roof, first and foremost in black neighborhoods but also trickling out into other, more stable areas. I remember a "Fred on Everything" column after the Ferguson shootings several years back, suggesting more or less the same thing: if black neighborhoods don't want policing, then fine. Don't send police there and everyone will be happy. Just limit police to neighborhoods who do appreciate the police and want to remain safe (like mine). Cheaper for the cities since there will be less work to do and fewer people to process through the criminal justice system.

So win-win, right? Yes of course - the left will be happy, violent criminals will be happy, cities who get to save money will be happy, and the police will be happy. Except of course for the victims of violent crime in those black neighborhoods...who, oddly enough, are mostly black themselves. They have the most to lose in this game, but of course no one is really concerned about them. As long as they reliably vote Democratic, there's no reason to alter course.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by Maddy » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:13 am

I wonder whether Chauvin will remain alive long enough to even see his appeal. This was, effectively, a death sentence without possibility of appeal.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:24 am

Maddy wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:13 am
What a self-important prick, telling me who I have to "advocate for" and who I have to "ridicule" in order to qualify as a defender of individual liberties.

This thread couldn't make more clear that, as with the proposition "All Lives Matter," the proposition that ALL are entitled to due process is, to the Left, a heresy. This is why principle itself is fundamentally a problem for progressives. Their system of thought requires the flexibility to choose, arbitrarily, what rules will apply to whom.
I have the Jacobin on ignore. Life is good.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:26 am

Maddy wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:13 am
I wonder whether Chauvin will remain alive long enough to even see his appeal. This was, effectively, a death sentence.
Well that's a different matter altogether. You can't not convict or imprison a policeman, prosecutor, or judge just because of the prison dangers.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by Maddy » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:29 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:26 am
Maddy wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:13 am
I wonder whether Chauvin will remain alive long enough to even see his appeal. This was, effectively, a death sentence.
Well that's a different matter altogether. You can't not convict or imprison a policeman, prosecutor, or judge just because of the prison dangers.
No, but it highlights the gravity of the consequences when due process protections are ignored for purposes of political expediency.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by glennds » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:01 am

Maddy wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:13 am
I wonder whether Chauvin will remain alive long enough to even see his appeal. This was, effectively, a death sentence without possibility of appeal.
I heard some news commentary the other day about his safety, and it was reported that the state plans to keep him in protective custody at Minnesota's only maximum security prison until sentencing. He will be in a single cell, segregated from the general population. They went on to say that eventually he would be transferred to a high security Federal penitentiary of the type that can supposedly assure safety within the general population.
His safety is definitely a concern, but I don't think I'd go so far as to call it a certain death sentence.

I've also read a post from someone who claims to be an ex-con who says Chauvin will actually be safer in prison than anywhere because the white supremacy gangs within the prison system will extend him protection owing to his hero status. Paradox of paradoxes.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by sophie » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:07 am

I wonder what police force members think of the conviction.

It's possible that a martyr has just been created. A "there but for the grace of God go I" situation.

There's a reason why police have enjoyed relative immunity up to now. They are put into dangerous situations on a regular basis, and bad things sometimes happen as a result. Frankly we should be grateful that there are people willing to face these situations for our benefit, for not a whole lot of pay. If the message is now that another level of personal risk has just been added to the risks they've already taken on, there will come a point where no one is going to be willing to take that on.

There's a simple way for black (and non-black) people to protect themselves against being shot by police: don't tangle with police in the first place! Not committing crimes would be helpful also. But that's apparently asking a lot.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:27 am

Then there is the case of Amadou Diallo. Minding his own business, trying to get into his apartment building in the Bronx in the middle of the night. No weapon. Killed by crazy cops looking for a rape suspect. They fired 41 shots, hit him 19 times. Thought his wallet was a gun. Officers were acquitted.

There is a lot wrong with policing. If I was a black person, especially in a big city, I'd probably be very nervous around police.
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Re: Chauvin Verdict

Post by Maddy » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:04 pm

I agree with Sophie: You can't have an honest discussion about the subject without recognizing the part played by black culture--namely, its embracing of the badge of victimhood and its normalization of the criminal lifestyle. There's prejudice--and then there's reputation--and the latter factors appreciably into how both society and police officers respond to situations.
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