Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

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dualstow
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by dualstow » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:45 am

The new yacht is just a by-product. It's not cool, but Russia's antics are news.
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by stuper1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:48 am

That Russia tried to influence the US election may have been news for about 30 days after November of 2016. That it remains news today in April of 2018 is because of the yachts for CEOs.
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by dualstow » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:14 pm

stuper1 wrote:That Russia tried to influence the US election may have been news for about 30 days after November of 2016. That it remains news today in April of 2018 is because of the yachts for CEOs.
I agree, partially. The other half is because Trump is a polarizing figure. He knows how to stay in the news, good or bad. Those who hate him, hate him with a passion. Russian influence is one part of that, and as long as an official investigation continues, that is most definitely news. It is covered by plenty of outlets with no money, and who will make no money.

That said, I admit that if Mueller dropped everything today, I wouldn't really care.
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by stuper1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:35 pm

dualstow wrote:It is covered by plenty of outlets with no money, and who will make no money.
I don't understand this point. How does a news outlet stay in business if it makes no money. As I understand it, the news media in this country is controlled by just a few major companies, all of whom make their money based on advertising from Big Business of which a large part is the Military Industrial Complex. It's all about the dollars, of course. Always has been, always will be. It makes me sick when it ends up with the US "liberating" another far-off country, with huge concomitant civilian casualties, when it's really just about making more money for the MIC. We don't have to be the world's policeman. It seems to be a job for which we volunteered.
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by dualstow » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:11 pm

stuper1 wrote:It makes me sick when it ends up with the US "liberating" another far-off country, with huge concomitant civilian casualties, when it's really just about making more money for the MIC. We don't have to be the world's policeman. It seems to be a job for which we volunteered.
You sound like Harry Browne. O0 Your point is valid, and I'm torn on the issue myself. There are many misadventures of which I'm not proud, and at the same time I really dislike the idea of us becoming isolationist.

I think the whole military-industrial complex gets too much "airplay." We live in an imperfect world. I don't mean to sound defeatist. We already have to contend with countries run by autocrats and thus very little red tape. We're doing okay with our shaky little democracy and our system of checks and balances.

Perhaps our role in the world will be diminished whether we stay on this course or whether we, by some miracle, become a more moral, non-interventionist, ideal society & nation. China will become the world police and a good part of the rest of the world will say that the United States wasn't so bad, in retrospect. But why didn't they save us?

dualstow wrote:It is covered by plenty of outlets with no money, and who will make no money.
stuper1 wrote:I don't understand this point. How does a news outlet stay in business if it makes no money. As I understand it, the news media in this country is controlled by just a few major companies,
Well, the television and radio channels are, but the Internet has afforded us alternatives.
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by stuper1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:37 pm

dualstow wrote:I think the whole military-industrial complex gets too much "airplay."
Follow the money, baby, follow the money. Who benefits when we shoot off 100 missiles at Syria? How many millions of dollars of profit to the missile maker does that one salvo represent? And by many accounts, that salvo basically accomplished nothing. Not that I wish it had accomplished anything. I just wish it hadn't been made in the first place. Let the Syrians figure out how to run their country. What business is it of ours? We should just dial back the foreign interventions from the present 8 to about a 2. But it won't happen, because the MIC won't allow it, and they control the purse strings to our representatives.

And then there's the whole "invade the world, invite the world" issue. We get involved in foreign affairs too much, and then we feel like we have to take in all the refugees, etc. Of course, Big Business likes that too, because it provides more "growth" opportunities, which is what business needs, basically cheap labor and lots of consumers.
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by dualstow » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 pm

The top three countries of origin are Mexico, India and China.
Immigrants are important, but you’re right. I do wish we could be more selective. Friendlier tham Trump, but more discriminating than Merkel.
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:29 pm

stuper1 wrote: It makes me sick when it ends up with the US "liberating" another far-off country, with huge concomitant civilian casualties, when it's really just about making more money for the MIC. We don't have to be the world's policeman. It seems to be a job for which we volunteered.
One of the best quips from CPL Person, in Generation Kill, when they're driving through a devastated landscape littered with smoking corpses.

"Yup, they're pretty much liberated around here."
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by Desert » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:01 pm

sophie wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that the goal of the investigation is to find something - anything - to use to start impeachment proceedings. That's what was done in the Clinton administration and the Dems are just repaying the favor. The GOP should blame itself for having set that unfortunate precedent.

The Russians are merely a convenient scapegoat. I also find it hard to believe that they did anything that hasn't been going on everywhere for decades. Given the number of countries where the US played some pretty heavy handed interference (ranging from diplomatic games to $$ to outright invasion) in the last 50 years, it's more than a little hypocritical to complain about Russia hacking one friggin' poorly protected server. Amazing how suddenly no one remembers Oliver North/Guatemala, Panama/Noriega, Vietnam, the Shah of Iran, and countless other examples that were WAY more egregious than anything that might have happened in 2016.
Mueller is a Republican.
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by Desert » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:02 pm

stuper1 wrote:That Russia tried to influence the US election may have been news for about 30 days after November of 2016. That it remains news today in April of 2018 is because of the yachts for CEOs.
Why would a foreign country's influence on our election be something to ignore after 30 days?
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by stuper1 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:47 pm

Because it's unremarkable, to be expected, and probably has been going on since 1776.
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Re: Making Sense of the Never-Ending, Never-Availing Trump Investigation

Post by moda0306 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:47 am

stuper1 wrote:Because it's unremarkable, to be expected, and probably has been going on since 1776.
It's hard for someone like me to become "outraged" at Russia doing these things. It's totally standard operating "World Power" procedure.

That said, this is in no way an argument that it shouldn't be investigated to wherever it leads, especially if American "leaders" were involved.

In-fact, it's the ubiquitous nature of some of the nastier aspects of human nature that make problems that are "unremarkable and to be expected" some of the most important ones to address. Some might say the movement of poor brown people into a rich white settler colony. Others might say preventing pollution. Depends on what your priorities are.
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