Trump as tragicomedy

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technovelist
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby technovelist » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:40 pm

stuper1 wrote:Right, and all this Trump-Russia hysteria is just more of the same racket, along with trying to bring down a duly elected president as you mentioned. It would seem to me that the military-industrial complex doesn't think Trump will be sufficiently hawkish to enable them to meet their growth targets.


That's just the surface. Underneath they are frightened that he is going to dismantle the deep state.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby Maddy » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:19 pm

technovelist wrote:
stuper1 wrote:Right, and all this Trump-Russia hysteria is just more of the same racket, along with trying to bring down a duly elected president as you mentioned. It would seem to me that the military-industrial complex doesn't think Trump will be sufficiently hawkish to enable them to meet their growth targets.


That's just the surface. Underneath they are frightened that he is going to dismantle the deep state.


I agree. If you go back through the last half-century of history, a clear pattern emerges. In one form or another, some boogy-man gets trotted out on cue with the purpose of distracting the masses and of instilling such fear, uncertainty, and/or disdain for the manufactured enemy that the people will line up in support of whatever course of action the oligarchy is proposing to protect them--whether it be war, martial law, bank bail-outs, or something else.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby technovelist » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:23 pm

Maddy wrote:
technovelist wrote:
stuper1 wrote:Right, and all this Trump-Russia hysteria is just more of the same racket, along with trying to bring down a duly elected president as you mentioned. It would seem to me that the military-industrial complex doesn't think Trump will be sufficiently hawkish to enable them to meet their growth targets.


That's just the surface. Underneath they are frightened that he is going to dismantle the deep state.


I agree. If you go back through the last half-century of history, a clear pattern emerges. In one form or another, some boogy-man gets trotted out on cue with the purpose of distracting the masses and of instilling such fear, uncertainty, and/or disdain for the manufactured enemy that the people will line up in support of whatever course of action the oligarchy is proposing to protect them--whether it be war, martial law, bank bail-outs, or something else.

Fixed it for you. :D
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby l82start » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:31 pm

Maddy wrote:
technovelist wrote:
stuper1 wrote:Right, and all this Trump-Russia hysteria is just more of the same racket, along with trying to bring down a duly elected president as you mentioned. It would seem to me that the military-industrial complex doesn't think Trump will be sufficiently hawkish to enable them to meet their growth targets.


That's just the surface. Underneath they are frightened that he is going to dismantle the deep state.


I agree. If you go back through the last half-century of history, a clear pattern emerges. In one form or another, some boogy-man gets trotted out on cue (N Korea) with the purpose of distracting the masses and of instilling such fear, uncertainty, and/or disdain for the manufactured enemy that the people will line up in support of whatever course of action the oligarchy is proposing to protect them--whether it be war, martial law, bank bail-outs, or something else.
the trump hawkishness toward N Korea gives me reason to doubt the MIC deep state is really worried about trump. the regulatory deep state and the political establishment corruption/pervert deep state seem to have more to worry about... and thats a good thing even if it doesn't strike at the heart of this countries deep state problems..
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby technovelist » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:40 pm

l82start wrote:
Maddy wrote:
technovelist wrote:
That's just the surface. Underneath they are frightened that he is going to dismantle the deep state.


I agree. If you go back through the last half-century of history, a clear pattern emerges. In one form or another, some boogy-man gets trotted out on cue (N Korea) with the purpose of distracting the masses and of instilling such fear, uncertainty, and/or disdain for the manufactured enemy that the people will line up in support of whatever course of action the oligarchy is proposing to protect them--whether it be war, martial law, bank bail-outs, or something else.
the trump hawkishness toward N Korea gives me reason to doubt the MIC deep state is really worried about trump. the regulatory deep state and the political establishment corruption/pervert deep state seem to have more to worry about... and thats a good thing even if it doesn't strike at the heart of this countries deep state problems..


North Korea seems to be a special case.

In general, I don't believe anything that the government tells me about other countries threatening us.

But this seems to be the real deal.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby stuper1 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:21 pm

North Korea may be the real deal, and I don't blame Trump for being hawkish toward Kim Jong Un, but seriously, do we really think that KJU is going to nuke one American city and give up his stranglehold on power in NK?

He probably just wants to have a bargaining chip so he doesn't get offed like Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi. Who can blame him for that? Of course, he deserves a lot of blame for starving his own people, but unless we plan to go in and supposedly establish democracy there, there's not a whole lot we can do about that. Look how well that plan worked out in Iraq.

In my humble opinion, the biggest acute threat to US security by far is that Islamic terrorists get ahold of a nuclear weapon and detonate it in a large US city. I hope and pray that our people are much more focused on trying to stop that than worrying about Russia or North Korea attacking us. We should definitely be working with Russia to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists, because Russia has the same concern.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby ochotona » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:31 pm

stuper1 wrote:In my humble opinion, the biggest acute threat to US security by far is that Islamic terrorists get ahold of a nuclear weapon and detonate it in a large US city. I hope and pray that our people are much more focused on trying to stop that than worrying about Russia or North Korea attacking us. We should definitely be working with Russia to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists, because Russia has the same concern.


Islamic terrorists would be buying it from North Korea, very likely. In exchange for a pallet loaded with gold.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby l82start » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:21 pm

ochotona wrote:
stuper1 wrote:In my humble opinion, the biggest acute threat to US security by far is that Islamic terrorists get ahold of a nuclear weapon and detonate it in a large US city. I hope and pray that our people are much more focused on trying to stop that than worrying about Russia or North Korea attacking us. We should definitely be working with Russia to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists, because Russia has the same concern.


Islamic terrorists would be buying it from North Korea, very likely. In exchange for a pallet loaded with gold.

or from N Korea by way of Iran for a pallet load of cash that they got from ...somewhere...
I think it's wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.

"Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby Kriegsspiel » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:00 am

stuper1 wrote:
Kriegsspiel wrote:
stuper1 wrote:The whole idea that Russia is a credible threat to the U.S. is laughable on its face, and thus it seems obvious to me that it's just another bogeyman manufactured by the establishment media on behalf of the military-industrial complex.


In capability, or intent?

Seems like a curious statement, regardless.


Both. What is their annual budget for military spending versus ours? Of course, they still have nuclear weapons, and so do we. Mutually Assured Destruction still applies.


A lot of US military spending is wasted (Smedley would agree, I think), whereas the Russian budget is more constrained and wisely spent. The Russians have good electronic warfare capabilities, and good psyops and information operations. They also have a lot of organized crime and computer geeks. Software, like bombs, can damage nuclear plants, electrical grids, corporations, government agencies. Basically, warfare probably won't look like it has in the past. So that's why I think it's naive to think Russia has laughable capabilities.

Regarding intent, are we seriously afraid that Putin is going to invade America? It's just laughable.

Of course, they are tinkering around the edges to try to get an advantage militarily and/or economically, but we do the same to them, and every other major country in the world does it too, even to their allies.


LOL, yes. They wouldn't charge into our teeth like retards. Russia is not capable of invading and occupying the US like they did with Crimea, and they certainly don't want to. If their intent is to damage the US, there are tactics with much lower risk and higher upside to employ. I think this is what you meant by "tinkering around the edges," but where our opinions differ is that I think the "tinkering" stuff has become powerful enough to be a viable tactic in its own right. Talking, again, about psyops, hacking/sabotage, special operations.

We might just be talking past each other in what our definitions of "threats" are.

The Cold War is over. We aren't fighting the specter of worldwide Communism anymore, although even that was mainly just a pretense.


It seems like you are still thinking like a Cold Warrior, wrt budgets, nuclear weapons.

We actually have a lot in common culturally with Russia. There is no reason for us to be in conflict with them.


Americans had a lot in common with Germany and Italy in the 1940s too ;D I think we'd both agree that the US and Russia have common enemies (Islamists) that we could work together against.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby stuper1 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:29 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:Americans had a lot in common with Germany and Italy in the 1940s too ;D


There was no need for a war with Germany and Italy in the 1940s either. War is a racket.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby technovelist » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:53 am

stuper1 wrote:
Kriegsspiel wrote:Americans had a lot in common with Germany and Italy in the 1940s too ;D


There was no need for a war with Germany and Italy in the 1940s either. War is a racket.


Correct.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Postby dualstow » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:39 am

kriegsspiel wrote:LOL, yes. They wouldn't charge into our teeth like retards. Russia is not capable of invading and occupying the US like they did with Crimea

So no Red Dawn? O0
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