European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
Moderator: Global Moderator
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
Why don't you fellow Germans consider the bond A1ZHSE ? Us gov 29 yr. bond.
You can buy/sell at the Frankfurt stock exchange for about 1.2% (brokerage fees, courtage etc.). Zero TER whilst holding, automatic taxation (0% if you are a German with a German brokerage, only automatic Abgeltungssteuer), no hassle...
Comdirect told me they no longer charge fees for US goverment bond payouts.
Biggest advantage, it shields your portfolio somewhat from EUR devaluation.
For stocks, I think I am gonna go for
MSCI World.
Call me biased, but I kinda lost my faith in old Europe..
You can buy/sell at the Frankfurt stock exchange for about 1.2% (brokerage fees, courtage etc.). Zero TER whilst holding, automatic taxation (0% if you are a German with a German brokerage, only automatic Abgeltungssteuer), no hassle...
Comdirect told me they no longer charge fees for US goverment bond payouts.
Biggest advantage, it shields your portfolio somewhat from EUR devaluation.
For stocks, I think I am gonna go for
MSCI World.
Call me biased, but I kinda lost my faith in old Europe..
- Harry.Browne
- Associate Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:01 am
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
You`re sure with that US Bond?Pfanni wrote: Why don't you fellow Germans consider the bond A1ZHSE ? Us gov 29 yr. bond.
Banque Federative du Credit Mutuel - BFCM-Anleihe: 2,000% bis 22.05.2024
WKN: A1ZHSE / ISIN: CH0243069280
It`s a corporate Bond
I prefer for Bonds, Euro, no currency risk, triple A Rating for German Bund
Last edited by Harry.Browne on Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Full Member
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:26 pm
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
Thanks. I am so excited about all the money that this is going to save. I figured it would be something in that range. Thanks for sharing the specifics.Harry.Browne wrote: current Price at Stock Stuttgart for EUWAX Gold
Bid = 33,63
Ask = 34,05
Spread = 1,25%
compare with xetra Gold for Example
Bid = 33,60
Ask = 33,64
Spread = 0,12%
cost p.A. = 0,36%
Break even = (1,25% - 0,12%) / 0,36% = 3,14 Years
Do you monitor the spread regularly though? Or a better question would perhaps be, is there a maximum spread they will never go over? like 2% - 3%...
Also, which long bond ETF would you recommended that does not pay dividends? (I pay about 25% tax on these.)
The three best long bond funds that reinvest the dividends are:
1. Lyxor UCITS ETF (FCP) EuroMTS 15+Y Inv. Grade (DR) EUR
https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile. ... 0010481093 (full replication.)
2. db x-trackers II iBoxx Sov. Eurozone 25+ UCITS ETF 1C
https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile. ... rom=search (synthetic replication.)
3. ComStage iBoxx EUR Liq. Sov. Div. 25+ TR UCITS ETF I
https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile. ... rom=search (synthetic replication.)
Thanks.
Last edited by ILoveMoney on Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
HarryBrowne & others: Thanks!
So I think I have all the answers I needed for stocks, gold, and cash.
Regarding bonds:
Is building a bond ladder as simple as that or did I miss anything?
(Maybe) Off Topic:
When reading the german govt web pages (deutsche-finanzagentur.de) I learned about stripping: http://www.deutsche-finanzagentur.de/in ... sanleihen/ (all the way at the bottom; english speakers can switch this web page to english at the top!)
It seems you can trade the debt separately from its interest coupons (speaking in layman's terms). Does that make any sense for the permanent portfolio? Since the permanent portfolio is for capital growth, not passive (interest & dividend) income, it might make sense to buy a bond that does not pay interest, no?
So, is this comparable to "ausschüttend" vs. "thesaurierend" in fonds terms, but only for bonds? If yes, does the stripped bond have higher appreciation that the one that pays interest? Also, what would be the ISINs for the stripped bonds, I can't find them anywhere. Would be interesting to put them on a chart together with their non-stripped counterparts.
Would love to read any informed opinion on this, thank you! (As I said, I am a newbie to the investment world.)
So I think I have all the answers I needed for stocks, gold, and cash.
Regarding bonds:
So in my (maybe naive) thinking, I could just go out and buy DE0001102341 (the bond with longest time to maturity; found on this very handy PDF for german govt bonds: http://www.deutsche-finanzagentur.de/fi ... abelle.pdf) and then mark my calendar for the year 2026 when it reaches 20 years to maturity and sell it, but a new 30 year bond with the proceeds.Harry.Browne wrote: For the pure HBPP I would not make a setup with Wikifolio, i prefer long Bonds from Germany. No Swap no lending.
In a small Portfolio, you have a higher risk with one ISIN for the whole Position of Bonds. It takes a time to build a Bond Ladder.
Is building a bond ladder as simple as that or did I miss anything?
(Maybe) Off Topic:
When reading the german govt web pages (deutsche-finanzagentur.de) I learned about stripping: http://www.deutsche-finanzagentur.de/in ... sanleihen/ (all the way at the bottom; english speakers can switch this web page to english at the top!)
It seems you can trade the debt separately from its interest coupons (speaking in layman's terms). Does that make any sense for the permanent portfolio? Since the permanent portfolio is for capital growth, not passive (interest & dividend) income, it might make sense to buy a bond that does not pay interest, no?
So, is this comparable to "ausschüttend" vs. "thesaurierend" in fonds terms, but only for bonds? If yes, does the stripped bond have higher appreciation that the one that pays interest? Also, what would be the ISINs for the stripped bonds, I can't find them anywhere. Would be interesting to put them on a chart together with their non-stripped counterparts.
Would love to read any informed opinion on this, thank you! (As I said, I am a newbie to the investment world.)
- Harry.Browne
- Associate Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:01 am
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
The Spread ist not allways as High as i Post. You van try with a Limit Order.
If you Don`t want distribution, Comstage is the only one.
The other cummulate the Money to, nur have a close look at Bundesanzeiger.de
The generate year by year “ausschüttungsgleiche Erträge“ This you have to deklare to Tax on Yourself
and then you pay 25 Percent each year.
Comstage, you pay only, when you sell it. Tax will be deferred until you sell.
Then you pay Abgeltungssteuer for the gain.
If you Don`t want distribution, Comstage is the only one.
The other cummulate the Money to, nur have a close look at Bundesanzeiger.de
The generate year by year “ausschüttungsgleiche Erträge“ This you have to deklare to Tax on Yourself
and then you pay 25 Percent each year.
Comstage, you pay only, when you sell it. Tax will be deferred until you sell.
Then you pay Abgeltungssteuer for the gain.
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
Sorry, typo..
A1ZSHE is the bond.
A1ZSHE is the bond.
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
Hi,Harry.Browne wrote: The Spread ist not allways as High as i Post. You van try with a Limit Order.
If you Don`t want distribution, Comstage is the only one.
The other cummulate the Money to, nur have a close look at Bundesanzeiger.de
The generate year by year “ausschüttungsgleiche Erträge“ This you have to deklare to Tax on Yourself
and then you pay 25 Percent each year.
Comstage, you pay only, when you sell it. Tax will be deferred until you sell.
Then you pay Abgeltungssteuer for the gain.
X509
is the Comstage bonds ticker?
Is this ETF safe ?Harry.Browne wrote: current Price at Stock Stuttgart for EUWAX Gold
Bid = 33,63
Ask = 34,05
Spread = 1,25%
compare with xetra Gold for Example
Bid = 33,60
Ask = 33,64
Spread = 0,12%
cost p.A. = 0,36%
Break even = (1,25% - 0,12%) / 0,36% = 3,14 Years
Thank you!
Live healthy, live actively and live life!
- Harry.Browne
- Associate Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:01 am
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
The Bond ETF:
ISIN LU0444606619
Xetra Kürzel X509
Reuters RIC CBIBOXS25T.DE
Bloomberg CBOXES25 GY EQUITY
Euwax Gold:
Dear Frugal,
what is save in this World? This bearer bond is 100% covered with physical Gold.
The Gold is hold in Germany in a vault, on Demand yon can order your Gold (min. 100gr)
and Boerse Stuttgart Securities GmbH is delivering without costs within Germany.
If you don`t trust the Boerse Stuttgart Securities GmbH, you should`t buy Euwax Gold.
Then you should´t buy any ETF, buy Bullions and deposit them at Home in a Safe.
Current Spread 0,58% at Stock Stuttgart
ISIN LU0444606619
Xetra Kürzel X509
Reuters RIC CBIBOXS25T.DE
Bloomberg CBOXES25 GY EQUITY
Euwax Gold:
Dear Frugal,
what is save in this World? This bearer bond is 100% covered with physical Gold.
The Gold is hold in Germany in a vault, on Demand yon can order your Gold (min. 100gr)
and Boerse Stuttgart Securities GmbH is delivering without costs within Germany.
If you don`t trust the Boerse Stuttgart Securities GmbH, you should`t buy Euwax Gold.
Then you should´t buy any ETF, buy Bullions and deposit them at Home in a Safe.
Current Spread 0,58% at Stock Stuttgart
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
Harry.Browne wrote:What ist your Preferences?frugal wrote: Hello German friends
I am looking for the most solid broker or institution in EUROPE.
What is your top list?
Regards.
Low costs, AAA+ Rating, 24/7 reachable or all of that? You can not answer This Question seriously.
Hello HB sorry to remind you,
if you can tell me a list of the best one on each feature it would be excellent.
Warmest regards.
Live healthy, live actively and live life!
- Harry.Browne
- Associate Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:01 am
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
I can only give an advice for Broker under the Law of Germany
www.brokervergleich.de
If you are sure with TAX handling, you can use http://www.brokervergleich.de/lynx/ or http://www.brokervergleich.de/captrader/
Very smart is https://www.interactivebrokers.com
Wich possibility you have, as a Portuguese Citizen, I don´t know.
www.brokervergleich.de
If you are sure with TAX handling, you can use http://www.brokervergleich.de/lynx/ or http://www.brokervergleich.de/captrader/
Very smart is https://www.interactivebrokers.com
Wich possibility you have, as a Portuguese Citizen, I don´t know.
- Harry.Browne
- Associate Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:01 am
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
For further informationfridolinfritz wrote:
(Maybe) Off Topic:
When reading the german govt web pages (deutsche-finanzagentur.de) I learned about stripping: http://www.deutsche-finanzagentur.de/in ... sanleihen/ (all the way at the bottom; english speakers can switch this web page to english at the top!)
It seems you can trade the debt separately from its interest coupons (speaking in layman's terms). Does that make any sense for the permanent portfolio? Since the permanent portfolio is for capital growth, not passive (interest & dividend) income, it might make sense to buy a bond that does not pay interest, no?
So, is this comparable to "ausschüttend" vs. "thesaurierend" in fonds terms, but only for bonds? If yes, does the stripped bond have higher appreciation that the one that pays interest? Also, what would be the ISINs for the stripped bonds, I can't find them anywhere. Would be interesting to put them on a chart together with their non-stripped counterparts.
Would love to read any informed opinion on this, thank you! (As I said, I am a newbie to the investment world.)
http://www.bundesbank.de/Navigation/DE/ ... pping.html
Stripped bonds with childlock 50000 Euro
-
- Full Member
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:26 pm
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
Got a reply from the Euwax folks on the maximum bid/ask spread.
Here's what they told me.
Here's what they told me.
There is no definition of a maximum spread.
Nevertheless the issuer is anxious to offer the etc-product with a spread of not higher than 1,2%, with trying not to exceed 1,5%.
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
Hi,ILoveMoney wrote: Got a reply from the Euwax folks on the maximum bid/ask spread.
Here's what they told me.There is no definition of a maximum spread.
Nevertheless the issuer is anxious to offer the etc-product with a spread of not higher than 1,2%, with trying not to exceed 1,5%.
they confirmed no TER over the years?
0%?
REgards
Live healthy, live actively and live life!
-
- Full Member
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:26 pm
Re: European/German Permanent Portfolio on wikifolio - good/bad?
This is their email. You should have an answer within a week.
anfrage@boerse-stuttgart.de
anfrage@boerse-stuttgart.de
Last edited by ILoveMoney on Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.