Tax accounting for physical metals

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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sophie
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Re: Tax accounting for physical metals

Post by sophie » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:04 am

When you posted this I thought it was for clients not for yourself. If it's only for yourself, why make it so complicated? It's just a spreadsheet with a listing of gold purchases in the order you made them. To decide on a lot to sell, you can look for the purchase with the maximum loss (if you want that) or for FIFO just sell from the first line. I don't see why any fancy programming is required, unless you want to automatically pull in numbers for sale price & selling costs for each type of item (bar, coin etc) or sort on specific criteria (date of purchase, net gain). Unless you're selling frequently, that seems hardly worth the time to do anything other than the simple list.
technovelist
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Re: Tax accounting for physical metals

Post by technovelist » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:09 am

sophie wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:04 am
When you posted this I thought it was for clients not for yourself. If it's only for yourself, why make it so complicated? It's just a spreadsheet with a listing of gold purchases in the order you made them. To decide on a lot to sell, you can look for the purchase with the maximum loss (if you want that) or for FIFO just sell from the first line. I don't see why any fancy programming is required, unless you want to automatically pull in numbers for sale price & selling costs for each type of item (bar, coin etc) or sort on specific criteria (date of purchase, net gain). Unless you're selling frequently, that seems hardly worth the time to do anything other than the simple list.
If I were always selling a whole lot as I bought it, it would be that easy.
But I'm not, so I have to keep track of how much is left in each lot.
Of course it's not complicated in the sense of requiring a lot (no pun intended) of logic.
It is somewhat complicated because there are dozens of different lots to keep track of.
However, it's obvious that no one here agrees with that, so I'll just drop the topic.
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sophie
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Re: Tax accounting for physical metals

Post by sophie » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:08 am

OK I think I understand what you're looking for: a sub-list of sale dates/amounts, amount left in the lot, cost basis, realized gains/losses in what year etc, sort of like what Fidelity and Vanguard provide for position holdings. Yes it would be a programming job if you do a lot of sales in different lots throughout the year. How about something like this?

https://www.gainskeeper.com/us/GainsKee ... vidua.aspx

Except, if you want a program that cleanly integrates into the rest of your system or don't want to pay for software, you probably will want to write it yourself.
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Re: Tax accounting for physical metals

Post by jacksonM » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:09 am

technovelist wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:55 pm
jacksonM wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:48 pm
technovelist wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:34 am
I don’t need tax advice. I know how to calculate the taxes on each transaction. What I need is an inventory program to keep track of the basis for each lot of each item, e. g. I have 3 lots of 100g bars with 2 bars in the first lot, 4 bars in the second, and 3 bars in the third. The basis is $1800 an ounce for the first lot, $1700 for the second lot, and $1600 for the third lot. Then I sell 5 bars with fifo accounting at $1400. How much is my loss, and how much is my remaining basis when I sell later?

This is okay to do manually for one or two items but I have about 100 different types of items so I need an automatic way to keep track.
Sounds to me like your gold holding situation is a lot more complicated than the rest of us have to deal with.

So maybe you are going to have to write that spreadsheet yourself after all.
Apparently so.

But the only thing complicated about it is all the different coins that I've purchased over the last 40 years. It's just a matter of scale, not of intrinsic complexity.

I may just write a program, not try to use a spreadsheet. I'm a better C++ programmer than I am an Excel programmer.
Try Google sheets. I was a C++ programmer too and always thought spreadsheets were complicated, especially one written by a company like Microsoft who "excels" at complicating things. Google sheets is a lot simpler IMHO.
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Re: Tax accounting for physical metals

Post by pmward » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:26 pm

jacksonM wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:09 am
Try Google sheets. I was a C++ programmer too and always thought spreadsheets were complicated, especially one written by a company like Microsoft who "excels" at complicating things. Google sheets is a lot simpler IMHO.
Microsoft has gotten a lot better in the last few years. My most proficient backend language is C#, so yeah... I'm about as engrained in the Microsoft tech stack as it gets (though we do use AWS for our cloud architecture instead of Azure). They've improved a lot since Nadella took over. I personally prefer Excel to Google Sheets these days, especially if you're a 365 subscriber.

C++ on the other hand... one must be quite the masochist to code in C++ these days, haha.
technovelist
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Re: Tax accounting for physical metals

Post by technovelist » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:04 pm

sophie wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:08 am
OK I think I understand what you're looking for: a sub-list of sale dates/amounts, amount left in the lot, cost basis, realized gains/losses in what year etc, sort of like what Fidelity and Vanguard provide for position holdings. Yes it would be a programming job if you do a lot of sales in different lots throughout the year. How about something like this?

https://www.gainskeeper.com/us/GainsKee ... vidua.aspx

Except, if you want a program that cleanly integrates into the rest of your system or don't want to pay for software, you probably will want to write it yourself.
Yes, that's what I wanted, and I don't know why that should be considered so weird.

Anyway, I have decided to just use my existing spreadsheet and keep track of the lots manually.
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Re: Tax accounting for physical metals

Post by technovelist » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:05 pm

jacksonM wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:09 am
technovelist wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:55 pm
jacksonM wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:48 pm


Sounds to me like your gold holding situation is a lot more complicated than the rest of us have to deal with.

So maybe you are going to have to write that spreadsheet yourself after all.
Apparently so.

But the only thing complicated about it is all the different coins that I've purchased over the last 40 years. It's just a matter of scale, not of intrinsic complexity.

I may just write a program, not try to use a spreadsheet. I'm a better C++ programmer than I am an Excel programmer.
Try Google sheets. I was a C++ programmer too and always thought spreadsheets were complicated, especially one written by a company like Microsoft who "excels" at complicating things. Google sheets is a lot simpler IMHO.
There is no way in the world that I'm going to use a web-based program for this.
Especially not with Google or any of the other big tech companies that misuses personal data.
I'd rather use a ledger book with a green eyeshade and a quill pen.
technovelist
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Re: Tax accounting for physical metals

Post by technovelist » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:08 pm

pmward wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:26 pm
jacksonM wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:09 am
Try Google sheets. I was a C++ programmer too and always thought spreadsheets were complicated, especially one written by a company like Microsoft who "excels" at complicating things. Google sheets is a lot simpler IMHO.
Microsoft has gotten a lot better in the last few years. My most proficient backend language is C#, so yeah... I'm about as engrained in the Microsoft tech stack as it gets (though we do use AWS for our cloud architecture instead of Azure). They've improved a lot since Nadella took over. I personally prefer Excel to Google Sheets these days, especially if you're a 365 subscriber.

C++ on the other hand... one must be quite the masochist to code in C++ these days, haha.
Not at all. Modern C++ is much easier to use than the older versions.
As it happens, I'm currently developing a hash table that is optimized for Optane DC Persistent Memory, and have ordered a server equipped with that hardware for performance testing and optimization.
So far it looks like I will have microsecond-range access to any record in a table containing billions of records.
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