Where are you invested in gold?

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

Post Reply
DONALD
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:23 pm

Where are you invested in gold?

Post by DONALD » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:04 pm

Half of my gold portion of the PP has been invested in PHYS since GTU was taken over in a rather hostile manner. The other half is in KRands. Since then I have never been very comfortable with PHYS and would like to invest elsewhere. What are your choices and why.
farjean2
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:51 am

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by farjean2 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:38 pm

I've used SGOL, IAU, and physical but recently I dropped the SGOL and went with just the latter two. Don't actually remember why I made that move, to tell you the truth.

I think IAU was the original recommendation in the Harry Browne book so that's why I went with it. He preferred physical gold, of course, and suggested some of it be stored outside the country. About 20% of my gold is physical right now and at this point I don't intend to ever increase that amount. I've read all about the risks of "paper gold" and having it held by a third party but the more I think about it, it occurs to me that holding physical gold is not without its own risks, especially in a foreign country, so I'm just going to keep what I have right now as an insurance policy with the intention of eventually passing it on to my heirs if it's left unspent.
User avatar
eufo
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:17 pm

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by eufo » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:47 pm

For me it was a choice between GLD and IAU, since they were, and still are, the two big dogs for Gold ETFs. IAU's superior ER made it an easy choice.

I'd own some physical gold if I felt I could secure it soundly with little cost, but that's not my current situation.
Don't agree with me too strongly or I'm going to change my mind
boglerdude
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1313
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:40 am
Contact:

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by boglerdude » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:28 pm

Using PHYS but CEF might've been a better choice as someone here said Sprott is a little shady.

Might take another look at Perth Mint
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:48 pm

boglerdude wrote:Using PHYS but CEF might've been a better choice as someone here said Sprott is a little shady.

Might take another look at Perth Mint
How about Global Gold?
User avatar
InsuranceGuy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:44 pm

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by InsuranceGuy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:15 pm

[deleted]
Last edited by InsuranceGuy on Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Hal
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by Hal » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:54 pm

Perth Mint for me. Only using the allocated option, where my holdings are isolated.

And just for a trial, I requested some coins get delivered to myself, and yes, they arrived.

PS. HB might have been onto something when he recommended holding coins.
Mexico thinking about remonetising bullion coins. Anyone know more details?

http://plata.com.mx/enUS/More/330?idioma=2
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by sophie » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:54 am

I've got a mix:

1/3 gold American Eagles in a safe deposit box
almost 2/3 is gold ETFs in tax-advantaged accounts: IAU, some PHYS, some SGOL.
the rest is unallocated at Perth Mint, under their online depository account

I've got too much in gold ETFs for my preference, but it worked out that way because of a lot of my PP is in tax-advantaged. I'm considering converting the Roth ETFs to Fidelity's IRA bullion program, which is kind of like pool allocated and stored in Nova Scotia.

The Perth Mint slice is small but I have it set up with regular contributions to minimize purchasing fees. When it gets large enough to convert to allocated bars I might do that, but leaving it unallocated is probably no less safe (and certainly saves on storage costs). That's because the main risk is a hacker breaking into Perth Mint's online servers, and wreaking havoc with their account records. At least that's the risk I'm most worried about.
barrett
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by barrett » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:51 am

sophie wrote:I've got too much in gold ETFs for my preference, but it worked out that way because of a lot of my PP is in tax-advantaged.
Haven't seen this discussed in a bit...

For those of you who maintain a PP across several different types of accounts (taxable, tax-deferred, tax-free), what percentage in gold ETFs do you shoot for in Roths and tIRAs?

I'm at a bit over 25%. It feels like I am not taking full advantage of the tax benefits of that space. Seems like it should be loaded up with stocks, bonds and cash that are throwing off potentially-taxable dividends and interest. But I like having gold in there so that a decade like the 2000s doesn't hit those accounts too hard. And it's nice to be able to buy and sell IAU without worrying about tax implications, mark up, etc.

Do all these factors just balance one another out? Should I go worry about something else?
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:38 pm

100% Bullion. I'm underwater on all of it.
barrett wrote: For those of you who maintain a PP across several different types of accounts (taxable, tax-deferred, tax-free), what percentage in gold ETFs do you shoot for in Roths and tIRAs?
0%
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:37 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:100% Bullion. I'm underwater on all of it.
So you are another victim of the rowboat curse? :P
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:04 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Kriegsspiel wrote:100% Bullion. I'm underwater on all of it.
So you are another victim of the rowboat curse? :P
YOU GET ME

BUT ALSO, YES
Mr Vacuum
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:51 am

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by Mr Vacuum » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:33 am

1/2 mix of IAU and SGOL because they're available and cheap.

1/2 bullion (Buffalo) through Fidelity. I don't like the responsibility of securing and selling coins (or foisting the same on my survivors). Fidelity bullion gives me a chunk that's plainly worth what the metal is worth and theoretically is salable during market holidays. It takes a phone call and hefty commissions to buy and sell, so it's essentially permanently stashed away where I won't mess with it. I have read the ETFs' prospectuses and am comfortable with the risks, but why not take the extra diversification for gold expected to be held for a long time?

All in tax-advantaged accounts not because of gold specifics but because lopsided accounts and emergency fund considerations dominate that decision.
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by sophie » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:10 am

Shawn, glad to hear someone else has tried that Fidelity bullion program. I noticed a while ago they'd lowered their prices, so the fees are comparable to the ETFs if you hold it for a few years. I don't know why I've been hesitant to pull the trigger, I guess because no one else on the board has tried it to my (prior) knowledge.

Some money in ETFs is nice for ease of selling. 25% max though. ETFs make me nervous because they're untested in some market environments, including precisely the ones you need gold for. I'll still be stuck with them in some accounts, because that bullion program only applies to IRAs.
Mr Vacuum
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:51 am

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by Mr Vacuum » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:53 am

sophie wrote:Shawn, glad to hear someone else has tried that Fidelity bullion program. I noticed a while ago they'd lowered their prices, so the fees are comparable to the ETFs if you hold it for a few years. I don't know why I've been hesitant to pull the trigger, I guess because no one else on the board has tried it to my (prior) knowledge.

Some money in ETFs is nice for ease of selling. 25% max though. ETFs make me nervous because they're untested in some market environments, including precisely the ones you need gold for. I'll still be stuck with them in some accounts, because that bullion program only applies to IRAs.
It was your thread that tipped me off that the storage fees had come down. That’s when I pulled the trigger. Thanks, Sophie!
boglerdude
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1313
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:40 am
Contact:

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by boglerdude » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:44 pm

For Perth unallocated coins:
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/pricing.html

1% fee to buy or sell. Of the day's spot price?

No storage fee.

If you want the actual coins, convert to allocated, and pay 5% fabrication fee.

What type of gold coins do they send? Do they report sales or anything to IRS?
User avatar
Hal
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by Hal » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:01 am

boglerdude wrote:For Perth unallocated coins:
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/pricing.html

1% fee to buy or sell. Of the day's spot price?

No storage fee.

If you want the actual coins, convert to allocated, and pay 5% fabrication fee.

What type of gold coins do they send? Do they report sales or anything to IRS?
Hi Boglerdude,

I have only purchased allocated coins, however the cost was based on the exact time the order was placed. See link.

The coins received were Kangaroos, however frankly I don't really care. I think its just what they are minting at the time.

All financial transactions over 10,000 AUD are reported to the Government, and I would imagine that is shared with the USA. Supposedly, its to stop terrorist (coin collectors ?? ), but I think its more to do with chasing taxes.

http://www.perthmintbullion.com/au/default.aspx

Hope this helps,
Hal
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by sophie » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:49 am

For pool allocated storage in an IRA, I'd say Fidelity's 0.5% storage fee is a pretty good deal, and within the ballpark of an ETF's expense ratio (0.4% except for IAU). It used to be something like 2% a year. Buy/sell fees are not a big deal for long term holdings, which is what you would want to use this for.

Regarding Perth Mint: if you trust the online depository account, it's almost a no-brainer to put your taxable, buy & hold ETF money there, because of the free storage. From there you have the option of converting to allocated storage, for which you pay storage charges, fabrication fees, and eventually additional fees to convert back to unallocated to sell.

The tax implications of Perth Mint gets complicated. The Mint set up the accounts so that they're not a bank, and they state on the website that they do not report transactions to the US government. However, you're still required to comply with the foreign account reporting laws, and note your money transfers to the Mint create a paper trail. You're responsible for tracking your cost basis, which gets tricky because the Perth Mint doesn't track it for you - you'd have to scan through collected monthly statements to figure it out. Hopefully there's a year-end statement I'll be able to download and save.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Where are you invested in gold?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:06 am

Another interesting possibility for an area to invest in (eventually?) or stay completely away from. Crypto currency backed by gold.

https://www.themaven.net/mishtalk/econo ... dmjHVgwyYg

I know nothing about crypto stuff other than I had never planned to ever get into them, but I will at least research this.

Not entirely sure how this is different from GoldMoney.
Post Reply