Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

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Libertarian666
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:35 am

Pointedstick wrote:
AdamA wrote: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/art ... 218921.htm
Central GoldTrust ("GoldTrust") (TSX:GTU.UN) (C$) (TSX:GTU.U) (US$) (NYSE MKT:GTU) (US$) today noted that Sprott Asset Management LP and Sprott Physical Gold Trust (collectively, "Sprott") have failed by a substantial margin to achieve sufficient support from GoldTrust Unitholders to complete their offer. As a result, Sprott has yet again extended their inadequate, hostile offer to acquire all of the outstanding Units of GoldTrust. They have made no improvement to the terms of their offer, which is now set to expire on October 9, 2015.
Can they just extend the offer indefinitely?

Can't wait to get more mail!
What a bunch of dopes. Do they think continuously and repeatedly irritating people is going to convince them to accept a deal they don't like?
Well, if they can convince people that they have to choose between two ways of giving up their units, maybe. Apparently some brokers have been lying to their customers to that effect.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:44 pm

Sprott co-founded GTU and left, but GTU's corrupt management is treating the trust as a personal piggybank at shareholder's expense.  The persistent discount to NAV is a result.  It reflects illiquidity and the lack of action on part of management to use their ill-gotten gains to buy back shares to close the gap.  THEY SIMPLE DON'T CARE.

Now, I understand ya'll arbitrating the NAV here so you want it to persist but so long as GTU management has their hands in the cookie jar, it will require extremely overbullish gold sentiment to swing back to fair value or a premium.

So if you don't know who the dope in the room is...
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:53 am

MachineGhost wrote: Sprott co-founded GTU and left, but GTU's corrupt management is treating the trust as a personal piggybank at shareholder's expense.  The persistent discount to NAV is a result.  It reflects illiquidity and the lack of action on part of management to use their ill-gotten gains to buy back shares to close the gap.  THEY SIMPLE DON'T CARE.

Now, I understand ya'll arbitrating the NAV here so you want it to persist but so long as GTU management has their hands in the cookie jar, it will require extremely overbullish gold sentiment to swing back to fair value or a premium.

So if you don't know who the dope in the room is...
Well, let's see.

1. GTU has a lower expense ratio than PHYS.
2. One of the big supporters of the takeover had a bunch of PHYS shares but sold them and then bought GTU. If they like the PHYS redemption policy better than the GTU redemption policy, why not just keep the PHYS?
3. GTU's management has already proposed to limit the discount to 5% by allowing unitholders to tender units back to GTU at that discount, but Sprott is blocking that proposal.
4. Sprott has asked GTU unitholders to give them irrevocable proxies. Why do they need proxies that don't expire with their offer?
5. The Sprott redemption option isn't available for anyone who has less than a standard bar (400 oz.)
6. PHYS has no shareholder meetings or any way for minority shareholders to do anything about governance of PHYS.
7. PHYS has sold at a pretty big discount at times too.

To summarize, it doesn't look to me as though GTU's management is doing that bad a job, and I don't like Sprott's tactics.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by MachineGhost » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:28 pm

Libertarian666 wrote: 2. One of the big supporters of the takeover had a bunch of PHYS shares but sold them and then bought GTU. If they like the PHYS redemption policy better than the GTU redemption policy, why not just keep the PHYS?
Free money.  If the takeover doesn't go through he can just sell GTU and rebuy PHYS.

I can't speak to the other issues.  But no one is locked into holding either GTU or PHYS shares if they don't like management.  Sprott believes they have better infrastructure and pricing transparency in PHYS and without the thorny tax issues as well.

If you're in favor of the wide discount in GTU persisting so you can arbitrage, then vote no.  But just remember, management of both are getting rich off shareholders.  It's just more egregarious in GTU's case since they're crony.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by Reub » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:09 pm

I just received an offer in the mail from my brokerage firm asking if I want to exchange my shares of GTU for PHYS at a price yet to be determined.  Did their takeover succeed? If so, what does this mean for GTU holders?
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by dragoncar » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:20 am

Reub wrote: I just received an offer in the mail from my brokerage firm asking if I want to exchange my shares of GTU for PHYS at a price yet to be determined.  Did their takeover succeed? If so, what does this mean for GTU holders?
As of 5:00 p.m. (Toronto time) on October 5, 2015, there were 8,194,265 GTU units (42.46% of all outstanding GTU units) and 2,055,574 SBT units (37.60% of all outstanding SBT units) tendered into the respective Sprott offers.
Yikes, looks like it could happen
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:57 am

dragoncar wrote:
Reub wrote: I just received an offer in the mail from my brokerage firm asking if I want to exchange my shares of GTU for PHYS at a price yet to be determined.  Did their takeover succeed? If so, what does this mean for GTU holders?
As of 5:00 p.m. (Toronto time) on October 5, 2015, there were 8,194,265 GTU units (42.46% of all outstanding GTU units) and 2,055,574 SBT units (37.60% of all outstanding SBT units) tendered into the respective Sprott offers.
Yikes, looks like it could happen
Nah, that's not much better than they have done previously, and they need quite a bit more.
Anyway, I wish there were some way to make them knock it off for at least a couple of months in-between barrages of mail.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by MachineGhost » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:29 am

What is the SBT units?

How many percentage units does Sprott need for the conversion to succeed?
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by dualstow » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:35 pm

MachineGhost wrote: What is the SBT units?
Silver Bullion Trust
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:34 pm

MachineGhost wrote: What is the SBT units?

How many percentage units does Sprott need for the conversion to succeed?
They need 2/3rds, and that assumes that they don't get pushback for what amounts to an end-run around the governance rules.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by Reub » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:06 pm

How can they be asking me if I want to swap shares if they don't control those shares? What kind of crap is Sprott pulling? And why would my brokerage relay this message to me?
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:21 pm

Reub wrote: How can they be asking me if I want to swap shares if they don't control those shares? What kind of crap is Sprott pulling? And why would my brokerage relay this message to me?
They want your proxy so they can take over GTU/SBT. If they get enough proxies they can throw out the existing management and put in their own management, then take the gold to add to their stash.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by MachineGhost » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:55 pm

Libertarian666 wrote: They want your proxy so they can take over GTU/SBT. If they get enough proxies they can throw out the existing management and put in their own management, then take the gold to add to their stash.
Sounds like a hostile takeover which isn't surprising.  If you had a personal piggy bank and someone tried to steal it from you because they felt you were living too high on the hog, you wouldn't go willingly either.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by steve » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:06 pm

I have been a long term GTU holder and hope that Sprott gives up, this attack is costing GTU unit holders additional expenses and are hampering with the smooth operation. It makes no sense to me for any long term GTU holder to agree and exchange to Sprott where they will pay more in expenses and have no say in management.  Only the very large holders can exchange for bullion and that is at the expense of the smaller holders. GTU is also implementing a cash redemption for all holders at 95% nav which is superior to Sprott.  If Sprott somehow succeeds I plan on selling. I am looking into the Merk Gold Trust called ounz and other alternatives for online easy trading to re balance and will consider holding more physical bullion.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by AdamA » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:00 am

steve wrote: If Sprott somehow succeeds I plan on selling. I am looking into the Merk Gold Trust called ounz and other alternatives for online easy trading to re balance and will consider holding more physical bullion.
Me too.  I think GTU is a great fund.  This Sprott bid is very annoying.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by dualstow » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:49 am

I would sell, too, except that I'd be selling at a big loss. Can't wait to dump all my paper gold shares when they break even, no matter who's at the helm.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by steve » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:11 am

dualstow wrote: I would sell, too, except that I'd be selling at a big loss. Can't wait to dump all my paper gold shares when they break even, no matter who's at the helm.
Selling at a loss is not always a bad thing if you can do a tax loss harvest. I also like to have real bullion which I call my core gold, but I also like to have some that I can easily manage online  to re balance. If you have GTU in a non taxable account then you can not do a tax loss harvest, but you also do not have to deal with the special tax forms for GTU or PHYS if held in a taxable account.  I have been a very happy GTU holder and will keep it as long as Sprott is not successful.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by Reub » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:57 am

Why would reputable brokerage houses like Vanguard forward these messages to me? Don't they see that I am being spammed and misled by Sprott? I mean, how can they ask me to swap my shares if they don't have the right to?
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by MachineGhost » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:42 am

Reub wrote: Why would reputable brokerage houses like Vanguard forward these messages to me? Don't they see that I am being spammed and misled by Sprott? I mean, how can they ask me to swap my shares if they don't have the right to?
Its a legal obligation for shareholders of record.  That's what brokers do.  If you owned individual stock, you'd get forwarded annual reports and proxy votes.

Since Sprott is trying so damn hard, I say hold on to the shares and let them sweeten the bid if they're that desperate to rescue the shareholders from cronyism.  Either they'll pay up or they will go away.  They already upped it by .10 per GTU unit.

I thought this was interesting...
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sprott-files-notices-of-extension-in-connection-with-offers-for-central-goldtrust-and-silver-bullion-trust-2015-09-21 wrote:Sprott is committed to providing GTU and SBT unitholders with an opportunity to own a superior product. In order to reach these unitholders, as is common in transactions with a large retail base, Sprott has agreed to pay to each soliciting dealer a solicitation fee of US$0.1358 per GTU unit and US$0.0448 per SBT unit deposited through such soliciting dealer if such unit is either (i) taken-up and paid for under the applicable Sprott offer, or (ii) provided the Merger Transaction (as defined in the applicable Sprott offer) is completed, deemed to be withdrawn from the applicable Sprott offer under the Merger Election (as defined in the applicable Sprott offer), subject to a minimum fee of US$50.00 and a maximum fee of US$1,500.00 with respect to each beneficial unitholder of GTU or SBT and a minimum deposit of 300 GTU units or 1,000 SBT units. Where units deposited and registered in a single name are beneficially owned by more than one person, only one minimum and maximum amount will be applied.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by dualstow » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:00 pm

Catching up on recycling weeks' worth of offers sent to 3 accounts. Good God. At this point, I just want to dump non-physical gold because, ironically, of all the physical toil and time spent with this paper work. Not reading it, just shredding and recycling it!
steve wrote:
dualstow wrote: I would sell, too, except that I'd be selling at a big loss. Can't wait to dump all my paper gold shares when they break even, no matter who's at the helm.
Selling at a loss is not always a bad thing if you can do a tax loss harvest. I also like to have real bullion which I call my core gold, but I also like to have some that I can easily manage online  to re balance. If you have GTU in a non taxable account then you can not do a tax loss harvest, but you also do not have to deal with the special tax forms for GTU or PHYS if held in a taxable account.  I have been a very happy GTU holder and will keep it as long as Sprott is not successful.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:32 pm

dualstow wrote: Catching up on recycling weeks' worth of offers sent to 3 accounts. Good God. At this point, I just want to dump non-physical gold because, ironically, of all the physical toil and time spent with this paper work. Not reading it, just shredding and recycling it!
http://thebillfold.com/2012/04/how-much-money-you-need-to-realistically-recreate-the-scrooge-mcduck-gold-coin-swim/ wrote:Calculating his velocity (roughly 5 m/s2) suggests that this mountain (of which we cannot see the summit) has a slope of 35 degrees, putting a rough estimate of the entire hill at 73.5 billion. Is it possible that McDuck pushed together his wealth to make this monstrosity? In theory, yes, but the eye line of McDuck (fixed at 8 degrees above the horizon relative to the slope) suggests that there are at least two other such mounds, putting his total wealth at over 210 billion, and well beyond the meager 70 billion of richest man in the world Carlos Slim Helu. It’s also heartening to see cash in this picture, as a diverse portfolio is always a successful one.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by dualstow » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:57 pm

haha, love it!
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by LazyInvestor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:01 am

What's going on here? I've been receiving some notices, but I was ignoring them. Sprott managed to take over?!
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by dualstow » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:19 am

Not that I know of. I've gotten offers again pretty recently.
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Re: Sprott Intends to Make Exchange Offers for Central GoldTrust and Silver Bullion

Post by Reub » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:30 pm

It seems that Sprott can continue this process ad infinitum, in which case they will probably win eventually. One thing that I have noticed is that the NAV of GTU has been outperforming GLD over the past 3 months by 3.5%. Mere coincidence?
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