Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
At some point in the future we're going to know if physical gold was worth it or not. If physical and ETFs track well enough during the next gold panic buying episode or bubble, then there was no point to owning physical; let the selling begin. We won't know for a while.
Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
I still think there would still be value in having some physical since it is the only asset we can directly own physically in hand. But I don't think I would want my entire stash in physical. I have a number in mind that I would like to build up to in physical, and once I'm there I would be personally comfortable in either a low cost unallocated account or low cost ETF for the rest. The idea would be to never sell any of the physical I'm holding except in the event of an emergency where there is no other choice. That would make it ultimately lower cost over my lifetime than unallocated accounts or ETF's.ochotona wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 1:53 pm At some point in the future we're going to know if physical gold was worth it or not. If physical and ETFs track well enough during the next gold panic buying episode or bubble, then there was no point to owning physical; let the selling begin. We won't know for a while.
Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Actually, I was thinking of my Millennial and Gen-Z heirs. I guess it's OK to have the Executor hand out coins to the kids, but the mechanics of dealing with my GoldStar precious metals IRA, with the custodian and the dealer both involved, and the forms that have to be properly filled out and sent around... I'd rather sell the physical and send the cash back to my Schwab IRA and by gold ETFs well in advance when I'm still healthy enough and make the final distribution easier for them.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Stuper1,stuper1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:29 pm I can also give a strong recommendation for CNI. I just finished my first gold purchase through the mail from them, and everything worked out well. I wanted Krugerrands, and my local dealer hardly ever has them. I called up CNI, locked in the price, and sent them a personal check. They said the coins would mail out two weeks after they received the check, and that is exactly what happened. The coins arrived in a non-descript, but very well packed, box. I believe shipping is free for purchases over $2k. I was a little put off by having to wait two weeks, but unless you want to pay about $30 for a bank transfer, that's what you have to do. Fortunately, I could watch the value of my coins going up during that two weeks, even though I didn't actually have them in my possession. The price is locked in on the first phone call.
I know you are still active here.
Are you still buying from them? If so, any changes in what you describe above?
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
I'd think that "public transportation" would be the last mode of transportation I'd want if I had physical gold on me!sophie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:46 am You won't find anything useful in Manhattan. There's a coin dealer in Paterson, NJ and I know someone who has bought gold bars there several times, but the neighborhood is a little funky and it's hard to get to by public transportation.
Online purchases work well. If you don't have a front desk or a VERY trusted neighbor to take the package for you, the post office will hold it for you to pick up - it's registered so they can't just leave it in your vestibule. Alternatively, consider getting a PO box for packages.
But I love the suggestion in the last paragraph. Prior to reading it I was wondering how safe it'd be to have physical gold to be sitting in my rural mailbox all day long and fully available to anyone walking or driving or bicycling by it.
VInny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Smith1776!Mike59 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:50 pmWhen it comes to storage, I don't know much about that but there was a link at the bottom of the page that links to here: https://silvergoldbull.com/storage.html so it looks like they do.ochotona wrote: Mike is SilverGoldBull a reliable firm for physical storage in Canada for U.S. Citizens?
quick political rant since you mentioned storage in Canada:
In all honesty as a Canadian I don't trust our greedy (especially provincial) governments as far as I can throw them. Our fiscal conditions are much like the US (perhaps worse off in some areas like Ontario), with an even more secretive central bank. If the country elects Federal Liberals in the next election I'd move your gold outta here, because they believe strongly in equalizing wealth and I've felt it personally in my province. Outlawing gold ownership in an end-game scenario or flat out confiscating it would not surprise me the least bit, they have billions to waste and will continue to stick it to us. They are also in bed with the IRS, your investments are not safe here and information exchange is free flowing. I'm researching gold storage in a very early stage and am looking outside of Canada for some of my allocation for what it's worth. Off the soapbox, big breath...
You have any comment on the above???!
Vinny
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Worth resurrecting. Excellent exposition on the reasons for being okay with going with unallocated at Perth Mint.grapesofwrath wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:43 pmHi Sophie. The Unallocated at Perth Mint is supposedly backed up by their "working inventory" of gold and the allocated is supposedly a chunk of gold on a shelf somewhere with a post-it note with your name stuck on it. I practically can't see the actual gold in either option. In both cases I would have to have faith that they will honor me down the road. So I really can't see the difference. Ultimately one has to have to have some faith, and a level of trust is required with holding any asset (stocks, bonds, real estate, treasuries...) and any institution (broker, company, town, country , treasury department, bank safety deposit, insurance company, legal protection). I realize my risk is that Perth Mint don't honor me. I find that (hopefully) small risk easier to sleep with than issues with storage, fees, purity, scams, theft, torture etc. Being a gold middle man is all Perth Mint has done for >hundred years and it operates in a country and legal system that is as solid as any other (as I mentioned I lived in Australia once for ten years). Another reason I chose the unallocated program is I have over the minimum 250k so I pay zero in purchase fees and storage which I couldn't do with ETFs and/or buying coins/bars at a gold dealer which is a bleed on such a "passive" asset. I want to own a bit of gold for diversification. Also I like that with Perth mint I automatically get some instituitional and geographic diversification. I don't buy into the "great collapse" and "zombies coming" scenarios. My biggest fear is myself.sophie wrote: Grapes, I'm very happy with the Perth Mint solution for the portion of my gold allocation that isn't in ETFs in retirement accounts or in physical gold. You hinted that you're very comfortable with unallocated as opposed to allocated...care to elaborate on that?
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Blueruin17!blue_ruin17 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:32 pm For physical (40% of my gold allocation) I order from silvergoldbull.ca. Free, fast shipping; usually the lowest premiums I can find. Online dealers are pretty much the only way to go, IMO -- brick and mortar dealers just can't compete.
For international storage (40% of my allocation) I use Goldmoney Personal. For Canadians, it is the best service for allocated gold storage in its class. I researched the fine print of their services intensively before investing with them, and was sold on their strong commitment to ensuring that every single gram of gold that a customer owns is absolutely, 100% fully allocated and accounted for. They even created and patented a ledger system specifically created for that purpose (Google: Aurum closed loop private ledger). They have public, detailed contingency plans for bankruptcy which are structured in such a way that keeps customer gold away from creditor or court pockets. Redemption for physical, delivered to your door, isn't a process that is buried in fine print, it is a main feature of the service. Overall, an excellent service, the best way to hold physical gold in an allocated account in an overseas vault, IMO.
HOWEVER... and here comes a huge caveat: Goldmoney Personal recently stopped accepting new accounts and has frozen the service to include only already existing customers. A new service, Goldmoney Holding, was launched...and it is terrible. So far, they have kept their promise to let Goldmoney Personal customers to continue using the platform, but inevitably, at some point they will surely for a migration to the Goldmoney Holding platform, and I will promptly take my business elsewhere, assuming the problems with Goldmoney Holding have not been eliminated by that point.
The last 20% of my gold allocation is held in my Tax Free Savings Account in the CGL.C.TO ETF (Canadian GLD, essentially), for tax-free balancing purposes.
I know you are also still active here.
Any updates on any of the above? I was completely impressed with your level of due diligence!
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
I'd not even give a thought to leaving this country. I always say that though I'm 100% genetically Southern Italian, I'm 100% culturally American. All my passions are this country based. On top of that, I'm an extreme provincial.MangoMan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:31 amThe question is: If the rich want to leave, where would they go? If tax rates go that high here, they will certainly be even more confiscatory in Europe, Australia, etc. I don't know about you guys, but I think I would have a tough time moving to Asia or South America, and it may not be much better there anyway.Libertarian666 wrote:It's not that hard, although still quite annoying. The main issue is getting another citizenship and giving up your US one.boglerdude wrote:Taxes can also sop up dollars
I dont know how easy it is for the rich to leave the country if they get too high...
Vinny
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
This Topic originated in March 2014.barrett wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:27 pm Hey all,
Anything recent to add to this thread? Specifically, does anyone here in the Northeast have experience with a gold dealer where they buy and sell in person? I'm in central CT but often travel between Philly and Boston.
Obviously I am looking for a place that does not sell for way over the spot price, and that also buys back at, or very close to, spot. Have NOT been able to find that here in CT where I keep finding places that charge 6.5% over spot.
Otherwise, any recent good or bad experiences with mail-order places like APMEX, Kitco, CNI, etc.?
Thanks!
Barrett resurrected it three years later in March 2017 and it kept going with its last post in May 2019.
Anyone have any updated related to the Topic title?
I've got a lot of good information from what I found so far within this topic.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
One time when I ordered gold online, I came home from work to find a little box of gold coins sitting on the front doormat of my garden apartment!vnatale wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:27 pmI'd think that "public transportation" would be the last mode of transportation I'd want if I had physical gold on me!sophie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:46 am You won't find anything useful in Manhattan. There's a coin dealer in Paterson, NJ and I know someone who has bought gold bars there several times, but the neighborhood is a little funky and it's hard to get to by public transportation.
Online purchases work well. If you don't have a front desk or a VERY trusted neighbor to take the package for you, the post office will hold it for you to pick up - it's registered so they can't just leave it in your vestibule. Alternatively, consider getting a PO box for packages.
But I love the suggestion in the last paragraph. Prior to reading it I was wondering how safe it'd be to have physical gold to be sitting in my rural mailbox all day long and fully available to anyone walking or driving or bicycling by it.
VInny
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
That will never happen. Registered mail must be signed for by everyone who handles it. It cannot be left in a rural mailbox.vnatale wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:27 pmI'd think that "public transportation" would be the last mode of transportation I'd want if I had physical gold on me!sophie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:46 am You won't find anything useful in Manhattan. There's a coin dealer in Paterson, NJ and I know someone who has bought gold bars there several times, but the neighborhood is a little funky and it's hard to get to by public transportation.
Online purchases work well. If you don't have a front desk or a VERY trusted neighbor to take the package for you, the post office will hold it for you to pick up - it's registered so they can't just leave it in your vestibule. Alternatively, consider getting a PO box for packages.
But I love the suggestion in the last paragraph. Prior to reading it I was wondering how safe it'd be to have physical gold to be sitting in my rural mailbox all day long and fully available to anyone walking or driving or bicycling by it.
VInny
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Scary!!!Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:07 pmOne time when I ordered gold online, I came home from work to find a little box of gold coins sitting on the front doormat of my garden apartment!vnatale wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:27 pmI'd think that "public transportation" would be the last mode of transportation I'd want if I had physical gold on me!sophie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:46 am You won't find anything useful in Manhattan. There's a coin dealer in Paterson, NJ and I know someone who has bought gold bars there several times, but the neighborhood is a little funky and it's hard to get to by public transportation.
Online purchases work well. If you don't have a front desk or a VERY trusted neighbor to take the package for you, the post office will hold it for you to pick up - it's registered so they can't just leave it in your vestibule. Alternatively, consider getting a PO box for packages.
But I love the suggestion in the last paragraph. Prior to reading it I was wondering how safe it'd be to have physical gold to be sitting in my rural mailbox all day long and fully available to anyone walking or driving or bicycling by it.
VInny
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
If that package was sent by registered mail, the postal employee should be fired and possibly prosecuted if he or she was reported.Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:07 pmOne time when I ordered gold online, I came home from work to find a little box of gold coins sitting on the front doormat of my garden apartment!vnatale wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:27 pmI'd think that "public transportation" would be the last mode of transportation I'd want if I had physical gold on me!sophie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:46 am You won't find anything useful in Manhattan. There's a coin dealer in Paterson, NJ and I know someone who has bought gold bars there several times, but the neighborhood is a little funky and it's hard to get to by public transportation.
Online purchases work well. If you don't have a front desk or a VERY trusted neighbor to take the package for you, the post office will hold it for you to pick up - it's registered so they can't just leave it in your vestibule. Alternatively, consider getting a PO box for packages.
But I love the suggestion in the last paragraph. Prior to reading it I was wondering how safe it'd be to have physical gold to be sitting in my rural mailbox all day long and fully available to anyone walking or driving or bicycling by it.
VInny
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
I would only leave if things get much worse here.vnatale wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:54 pmI'd not even give a thought to leaving this country. I always say that though I'm 100% genetically Southern Italian, I'm 100% culturally American. All my passions are this country based. On top of that, I'm an extreme provincial.MangoMan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:31 amThe question is: If the rich want to leave, where would they go? If tax rates go that high here, they will certainly be even more confiscatory in Europe, Australia, etc. I don't know about you guys, but I think I would have a tough time moving to Asia or South America, and it may not be much better there anyway.Libertarian666 wrote:It's not that hard, although still quite annoying. The main issue is getting another citizenship and giving up your US one.boglerdude wrote:Taxes can also sop up dollars
I dont know how easy it is for the rich to leave the country if they get too high...
Vinny
Such as if Bernie Sanders or some other lunatic got elected President.
Fortunately that doesn't look very probable at the moment.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Hmm. I wonder if it was delivered to the front office, who signed for it then walked over to my apartment and left it there.Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:15 pmIf that package was sent by registered mail, the postal employee should be fired and possibly prosecuted if he or she was reported.Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:07 pmOne time when I ordered gold online, I came home from work to find a little box of gold coins sitting on the front doormat of my garden apartment!vnatale wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:27 pmI'd think that "public transportation" would be the last mode of transportation I'd want if I had physical gold on me!sophie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:46 am You won't find anything useful in Manhattan. There's a coin dealer in Paterson, NJ and I know someone who has bought gold bars there several times, but the neighborhood is a little funky and it's hard to get to by public transportation.
Online purchases work well. If you don't have a front desk or a VERY trusted neighbor to take the package for you, the post office will hold it for you to pick up - it's registered so they can't just leave it in your vestibule. Alternatively, consider getting a PO box for packages.
But I love the suggestion in the last paragraph. Prior to reading it I was wondering how safe it'd be to have physical gold to be sitting in my rural mailbox all day long and fully available to anyone walking or driving or bicycling by it.
VInny
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Yes, that would be possible, assuming it wasn't marked "Deliver to addressee only", which is an additional service available on registered mail.Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:27 pmHmm. I wonder if it was delivered to the front office, who signed for it then walked over to my apartment and left it there.Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:15 pmIf that package was sent by registered mail, the postal employee should be fired and possibly prosecuted if he or she was reported.Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:07 pmOne time when I ordered gold online, I came home from work to find a little box of gold coins sitting on the front doormat of my garden apartment!vnatale wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:27 pmI'd think that "public transportation" would be the last mode of transportation I'd want if I had physical gold on me!sophie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:46 am You won't find anything useful in Manhattan. There's a coin dealer in Paterson, NJ and I know someone who has bought gold bars there several times, but the neighborhood is a little funky and it's hard to get to by public transportation.
Online purchases work well. If you don't have a front desk or a VERY trusted neighbor to take the package for you, the post office will hold it for you to pick up - it's registered so they can't just leave it in your vestibule. Alternatively, consider getting a PO box for packages.
But I love the suggestion in the last paragraph. Prior to reading it I was wondering how safe it'd be to have physical gold to be sitting in my rural mailbox all day long and fully available to anyone walking or driving or bicycling by it.
VInny
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
I have 100% bailed on Goldmoney. Only in retrospect do I recognize that their breathtaking decline in value, customer service, and integrity was not incidental, but rather likely by design.vnatale wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:48 pmBlueruin17!blue_ruin17 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:32 pm For physical (40% of my gold allocation) I order from silvergoldbull.ca. Free, fast shipping; usually the lowest premiums I can find. Online dealers are pretty much the only way to go, IMO -- brick and mortar dealers just can't compete.
For international storage (40% of my allocation) I use Goldmoney Personal. For Canadians, it is the best service for allocated gold storage in its class. I researched the fine print of their services intensively before investing with them, and was sold on their strong commitment to ensuring that every single gram of gold that a customer owns is absolutely, 100% fully allocated and accounted for. They even created and patented a ledger system specifically created for that purpose (Google: Aurum closed loop private ledger). They have public, detailed contingency plans for bankruptcy which are structured in such a way that keeps customer gold away from creditor or court pockets. Redemption for physical, delivered to your door, isn't a process that is buried in fine print, it is a main feature of the service. Overall, an excellent service, the best way to hold physical gold in an allocated account in an overseas vault, IMO.
HOWEVER... and here comes a huge caveat: Goldmoney Personal recently stopped accepting new accounts and has frozen the service to include only already existing customers. A new service, Goldmoney Holding, was launched...and it is terrible. So far, they have kept their promise to let Goldmoney Personal customers to continue using the platform, but inevitably, at some point they will surely for a migration to the Goldmoney Holding platform, and I will promptly take my business elsewhere, assuming the problems with Goldmoney Holding have not been eliminated by that point.
The last 20% of my gold allocation is held in my Tax Free Savings Account in the CGL.C.TO ETF (Canadian GLD, essentially), for tax-free balancing purposes.
I know you are also still active here.
Any updates on any of the above? I was completely impressed with your level of due diligence!
Vinny
With Goldmoney "Personal", the sheer ease and swiftness in which fiat currency could be converted into gold or silver was remarkable; you could use fund your account with bank bill payments for free, or even with credit cards if you covered the service fee. Redemption for physical was exceedingly easy, streamlined, and affordable -- even at amounts as little as 1/10th ounce of gold, shipped to your address within a business day or two upon demand. They had a debit card that you could use to spend your precious metal holdings at any POS that accepted debit. You could choose what vault to hold your allocated gold.
Out of no where, Goldmoney "Personal" was frozen, and all new customers where directed to Goldmoney "Holding". All the amazing features and potential of "Personal" were nuked. Only one, cumbersome, expensive method of funding your account: wire transfer. The process for taking physical delivery became very opaque and prohibitively expensive. For example, if you request redemption for physical now you get the message:
Oh really...Before I could demand delivery of as little as 1/10th of an ounce of gold on demand at 3am from my phone while drunk in the back of a taxi....but now I have to contact the "Relationship Management team" to "discuss" my desire to take delivery.The Holding does not have a sufficient balance available of gold to take delivery of a bar, or the Goldmoney bar delivery facility is currently unavailable. Please contact our Relationship Management team.
Ya, no thank you.
I now believe that Goldmoney has been essentially comprised. I suspect (though I cannot prove) that their service provided such an effective, frictionless "on-ramp" to DELIVERABLE gold and silver that the service was probably flagged as being a significant threat to the current monetary paradigm. For example, I personally have multiple credit cards with $20,000+ limits. During the onset of a financial crisis in which the integrity and trust of the financial system itself were called into question, I could have had the ability to convert my credit card limits (i.e. "nothing") into dozens of ounces of deliverable physical gold, or thousands of ounces of deliverable physical silver... There is no way that ability could be allowed to persist going into the next financial crisis.
I don't know "who" compromised Goldmoney. I suspect that they were slapped with onerous government regulations in advance of the next financial crisis in order to ensure that average folks have no ability to "on ramp" their fiat dollars and credit card limits into physical precious metals.
All my gold is physical, now. No international holdings. No games. No risks.
When you have a good hand, keep it close to your chest.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
^ Very interesting post from blue ruin above.
So far, I haven’t had gold left on my doorstep, but I have had other items that were supposed to be signature required left there. My usual mail lady was laid up in the hospital, and her replacement did not care. It was just a fountain pen, but it made me think about future gold deliveries.
Too bad Amazon’s not in the business. There’s a pick-up site just minutes away.
So far, I haven’t had gold left on my doorstep, but I have had other items that were supposed to be signature required left there. My usual mail lady was laid up in the hospital, and her replacement did not care. It was just a fountain pen, but it made me think about future gold deliveries.
Too bad Amazon’s not in the business. There’s a pick-up site just minutes away.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Just a thought:
Would it be reasonable for members of this forum to consider buying and selling gold coins with fellow Gyro-HB members? No long distance traveling, quirky neighborhoods and, on a positive note, more personal interactions- everyone is a friend.. Premiums, fees and other annoyances might be mitigated.
Just a thought.
Would it be reasonable for members of this forum to consider buying and selling gold coins with fellow Gyro-HB members? No long distance traveling, quirky neighborhoods and, on a positive note, more personal interactions- everyone is a friend.. Premiums, fees and other annoyances might be mitigated.
Just a thought.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Nah, Don Jr. will easily beat any of those losers.MangoMan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:00 pmDon't want to go off topic, but the likelihood of Sanders, Warren, or someone just like them getting elected in 2024 is much higher than I care to contemplate. Vinny or someone just like him can resurrect this comment in 2025 and I will seem very prescient.Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:16 pm
I would only leave if things get much worse here.
Such as if Bernie Sanders or some other lunatic got elected President.
Fortunately that doesn't look very probable at the moment.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Rather than using an "unsorted list" you could use a hash table like the one described on my website www.threemisses.com.
Then you don't need a quantum computer, just a regular computer, to get O(1) access times with an upper bound of three random memory accesses.
(BTW, I'm looking for beta testers if anyone is interested. No NDA or other paperwork needed, just download the library and play with it or use it in your own project.)
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
I'm perfectly serious. He is the ideal Republican candidate for 2024.MangoMan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:05 pmYou can't be serious....and yet there was no tongue emoji.Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:01 pmNah, Don Jr. will easily beat any of those losers.MangoMan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:00 pmDon't want to go off topic, but the likelihood of Sanders, Warren, or someone just like them getting elected in 2024 is much higher than I care to contemplate. Vinny or someone just like him can resurrect this comment in 2025 and I will seem very prescient.Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:16 pm
I would only leave if things get much worse here.
Such as if Bernie Sanders or some other lunatic got elected President.
Fortunately that doesn't look very probable at the moment.
He's rich enough not to be bankrupted by insane witch hunts instigated by the Democrats.
He has the same take-no-prisoners approach as his father.
And maybe most important, he has already been subjected to the Democrats' worst efforts, so he is unafraid of what they could do to him.
Who else is as well-qualified?