Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ochotona » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:00 pm

I was thinking about Alberta, not the eastern liberal provinces. But, it doesn't sound really good about your Federales.
Mike59 wrote:
ochotona wrote: Mike is SilverGoldBull a reliable firm for physical storage in Canada for U.S. Citizens?
quick political rant since you mentioned storage in Canada:
In all honesty as a Canadian I don't trust our greedy (especially provincial) governments as far as I can throw them. Our fiscal conditions are much like the US (perhaps worse off in some areas like Ontario), with an even more secretive central bank. If the country elects Federal Liberals in the next election I'd move your gold outta here,
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by sophie » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:51 pm

dualstow wrote:
sophie wrote: You won't find anything useful in Manhattan.
Why is that? Markup?
Yes, if you're buying piddling amounts.  I've found lots of places who have "we buy gold" signs in the window, but I wouldn't trust them enough to buy coins.  The more reputable places had astronomical fees if you're not a major Wall Street company.  And I saw a couple of them mention charging sales tax - maybe due to misunderstanding the law because NY doesn't technically require it.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." -- Benjamin Franklin
StdDeviant
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:52 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by StdDeviant » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:16 pm

barrett wrote:Just called Manfra, Tordella, and Brookes and the current process when buying from them is quite complicated. To get into the building you need to sign in and get fingerprinted (anyone put off yet??). Then they issue you a key card which gets you into their office upstairs.

They charge 3 & 3/4% over spot for Eagles plus $50 or 1% whichever is higher. With a spot price of $1223 I was quoted $6407.25 for five coins which works out to 4.8%.

The guy I spoke with said, "It's easier to get into the Pentagon than it is to get into our building right now."

Not good. Next suggestion?
Why is that not good? I would not be put off at all by such security measures. The easier it is for me to randomly stroll into a gold dealer, the easier it is for some masked guys with machine guns to do so. I'd be fine going through that security. Now, if your fingerprints are on file with the FBI and you're on the Ten Most Wanted List, I suppose that's a different story!
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14231
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:33 pm

Seems like a great place to *store* one's gold. O0 Except that it's in NYC.


P.S. The one Austrian I own is not nearly as shiny as their picture. http://www.mtbcoins.com/code/bullion_gold_03.html
Maybe mine's a fake.
P.P.S. It's every bit as shiny as the wiki page, though, even in its case. Whew.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:46 pm

StdDeviant wrote:
barrett wrote:Just called Manfra, Tordella, and Brookes and the current process when buying from them is quite complicated. To get into the building you need to sign in and get fingerprinted (anyone put off yet??). Then they issue you a key card which gets you into their office upstairs.

They charge 3 & 3/4% over spot for Eagles plus $50 or 1% whichever is higher. With a spot price of $1223 I was quoted $6407.25 for five coins which works out to 4.8%.

The guy I spoke with said, "It's easier to get into the Pentagon than it is to get into our building right now."

Not good. Next suggestion?
Why is that not good? I would not be put off at all by such security measures. The easier it is for me to randomly stroll into a gold dealer, the easier it is for some masked guys with machine guns to do so. I'd be fine going through that security. Now, if your fingerprints are on file with the FBI and you're on the Ten Most Wanted List, I suppose that's a different story!
Dillon-Gage in Dallas isn't nearly that difficult to get into, and they have pretty good prices, especially if you convince them that you are going to do a lot of business with them and they open a wholesale account for you.
grapesofwrath
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:57 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by grapesofwrath » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:48 pm

I use Perth Mint. I do transactions by phone. I use their unallocated program. I don't see the need to hold and fondle my gold.
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:08 pm

grapesofwrath wrote:I use Perth Mint. I do transactions by phone. I use their unallocated program. I don't see the need to hold and fondle my gold.
That's heresy! :P
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ochotona » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:43 am

Yah need ta fondle yer gold n yer gerns
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by sophie » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:59 am

Full credit for the phrase "fondle factor" goes to dualstow.

And, it's totally worth it, at least for a portion of your gold allocation. Seriously, if you haven't bought physical gold before, don't knock it before you do it. It's incredibly empowering.

Grapes, I'm very happy with the Perth Mint solution for the portion of my gold allocation that isn't in ETFs in retirement accounts or in physical gold. You hinted that you're very comfortable with unallocated as opposed to allocated...care to elaborate on that?
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14231
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:04 am

Ha! Is that so? I don't even remember it.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by sophie » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:48 am

Just checked out Xan's new and improved search (thank you Xan). I was wrong - it wasn't dualstow it was barrett who came up with "fondle factor". Apologies barrett! That was a fun one.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14231
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:03 pm

O0
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
grapesofwrath
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:57 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by grapesofwrath » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:43 pm

sophie wrote: Grapes, I'm very happy with the Perth Mint solution for the portion of my gold allocation that isn't in ETFs in retirement accounts or in physical gold. You hinted that you're very comfortable with unallocated as opposed to allocated...care to elaborate on that?
Hi Sophie. The Unallocated at Perth Mint is supposedly backed up by their "working inventory" of gold and the allocated is supposedly a chunk of gold on a shelf somewhere with a post-it note with your name stuck on it. I practically can't see the actual gold in either option. In both cases I would have to have faith that they will honor me down the road. So I really can't see the difference. Ultimately one has to have to have some faith, and a level of trust is required with holding any asset (stocks, bonds, real estate, treasuries...) and any institution (broker, company, town, country , treasury department, bank safety deposit, insurance company, legal protection). I realize my risk is that Perth Mint don't honor me. I find that (hopefully) small risk easier to sleep with than issues with storage, fees, purity, scams, theft, torture etc. Being a gold middle man is all Perth Mint has done for >hundred years and it operates in a country and legal system that is as solid as any other (as I mentioned I lived in Australia once for ten years). Another reason I chose the unallocated program is I have over the minimum 250k so I pay zero in purchase fees and storage which I couldn't do with ETFs and/or buying coins/bars at a gold dealer which is a bleed on such a "passive" asset. I want to own a bit of gold for diversification. Also I like that with Perth mint I automatically get some instituitional and geographic diversification. I don't buy into the "great collapse" and "zombies coming" scenarios. My biggest fear is myself.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14231
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:45 pm

"a bit" !!!
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
steve
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:06 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by steve » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:40 am

I like to purchase from local dealer where I pay with a personal check and can walk out with gold in hand. Maybe not walk out the same day as purchase but soon after.
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ochotona » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:04 am

Most local dealers won't be competitive. You need to get comfortable with using insured shipping.
steve
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:06 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by steve » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:03 pm

ochotona wrote:Most local dealers won't be competitive. You need to get comfortable with using insured shipping.
In my area I found a local dealer that is competitive, I agree not all are, I once walked out of a place when a dealer would not meet the price he quoted over the phone.
barrett
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by barrett » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:27 pm

Hey all,

Anything recent to add to this thread? Specifically, does anyone here in the Northeast have experience with a gold dealer where they buy and sell in person? I'm in central CT but often travel between Philly and Boston.

Obviously I am looking for a place that does not sell for way over the spot price, and that also buys back at, or very close to, spot. Have NOT been able to find that here in CT where I keep finding places that charge 6.5% over spot.

Otherwise, any recent good or bad experiences with mail-order places like APMEX, Kitco, CNI, etc.?

Thanks!
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Xan » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:35 pm

Ocho, how do you do insured shipping? Last time I looked into shipping insurance (it wasn't for gold, in case anyone cares) it was something like $1.50 for every $100 being shipped. Meaning... The carrier plans on completely losing or destroying one out of every 67 packages.

That means there's got to be a cheaper way, I would think.
barrett
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by barrett » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm

Xan wrote:Ocho, how do you do insured shipping? Last time I looked into shipping insurance (it wasn't for gold, in case anyone cares) it was something like $1.50 for every $100 being shipped. Meaning... The carrier plans on completely losing or destroying one out of every 67 packages.

That means there's got to be a cheaper way, I would think.
I'm not Ocho, but I was just quoted $4 for every $1,000 in purchases from Kitco... so about $52 for ten coins at $1,300 each.

Funnily, I was told that that charge "is nothing". But I don't think that means that they will actually drop the fee!

Does this mean that Kitco only loses one out of 250 packages?
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ochotona » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:54 pm

Texas Precious Metals folds shipping into their metal price. As far as shipping to them is concerned, they are 90 miles away, if I ever need to sell a large batch I'll just drive there. JM Bullion is in Dallas, APMEX in Oklahoma City, and I have US Coins locally in Houston, other redemption options.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14231
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:11 pm

barrett wrote:Hey all,

Anything recent to add to this thread? Specifically, does anyone here in the Northeast have experience with a gold dealer where they buy and sell in person? I'm in central CT but often travel between Philly and Boston.

Obviously I am looking for a place that does not sell for way over the spot price, and that also buys back at, or very close to, spot. Have NOT been able to find that here in CT where I keep finding places that charge 6.5% over spot.

Otherwise, any recent good or bad experiences with mail-order places like APMEX, Kitco, CNI, etc.?

Thanks!
Funny, I didn't see this thread moving until after asking ochotona for a follow-up on texmetals.
Boston - can't remember
Philly - I've bought from Sansom Coin Exchange more than once before switching to just using big outfits and the mail. Ask for Malcolm. Really nice and funny guy, but also very serious about business, very professional. I haven't been there in a long time, but I called not too long ago and he was still there.

I have only had good experiences from Apmex. Well, I had trouble selling my bitcoin for gold there and they apologized. "We're still figuring it out, too", they said. The most annoying part was when someone pasted a response to me addressing me in the third person, so I responded to him with a "he" as well. Minor technical point: I was never able to get into my Marc bitcoin wallet anyway! But that's already in the appropriate thread.

The only reason I'm thinking about trying JM Bullion is that, like Apmex, I can order online instead of on the phone and, unlike Apmex, I can have my order shipped via UPS. The post office ignored my paid sig request on a fountain pen, leaving it on my front step, so they can f__ right off as Ricky from Trailer Park Boys would say. Our UPS man is reliable.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
blue_ruin17
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:16 pm
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by blue_ruin17 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:32 pm

For physical (40% of my gold allocation) I order from silvergoldbull.ca. Free, fast shipping; usually the lowest premiums I can find. Online dealers are pretty much the only way to go, IMO -- brick and mortar dealers just can't compete.

For international storage (40% of my allocation) I use Goldmoney Personal. For Canadians, it is the best service for allocated gold storage in its class. I researched the fine print of their services intensively before investing with them, and was sold on their strong commitment to ensuring that every single gram of gold that a customer owns is absolutely, 100% fully allocated and accounted for. They even created and patented a ledger system specifically created for that purpose (Google: Aurum closed loop private ledger). They have public, detailed contingency plans for bankruptcy which are structured in such a way that keeps customer gold away from creditor or court pockets. Redemption for physical, delivered to your door, isn't a process that is buried in fine print, it is a main feature of the service. Overall, an excellent service, the best way to hold physical gold in an allocated account in an overseas vault, IMO.

HOWEVER... and here comes a huge caveat: Goldmoney Personal recently stopped accepting new accounts and has frozen the service to include only already existing customers. A new service, Goldmoney Holding, was launched...and it is terrible. So far, they have kept their promise to let Goldmoney Personal customers to continue using the platform, but inevitably, at some point they will surely for a migration to the Goldmoney Holding platform, and I will promptly take my business elsewhere, assuming the problems with Goldmoney Holding have not been eliminated by that point.

The last 20% of my gold allocation is held in my Tax Free Savings Account in the CGL.C.TO ETF (Canadian GLD, essentially), for tax-free balancing purposes.
STAT PERPETUS PORTFOLIO DUM VOLVITUR ORBIS

Amazon: Investing Equanimity: The Logic & Wisdom of the Permanent Portfolio
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 pm

blue_ruin17 wrote:For physical (40% of my gold allocation) I order from silvergoldbull.ca. Free, fast shipping; usually the lowest premiums I can find. Online dealers are pretty much the only way to go, IMO -- brick and mortar dealers just can't compete.

For international storage (40% of my allocation) I use Goldmoney Personal. For Canadians, it is the best service for allocated gold storage in its class. I researched the fine print of their services intensively before investing with them, and was sold on their strong commitment to ensuring that every single gram of gold that a customer owns is absolutely, 100% fully allocated and accounted for. They even created and patented a ledger system specifically created for that purpose (Google: Aurum closed loop private ledger). They have public, detailed contingency plans for bankruptcy which are structured in such a way that keeps customer gold away from creditor or court pockets. Redemption for physical, delivered to your door, isn't a process that is buried in fine print, it is a main feature of the service. Overall, an excellent service, the best way to hold physical gold in an allocated account in an overseas vault, IMO.

HOWEVER... and here comes a huge caveat: Goldmoney Personal recently stopped accepting new accounts and has frozen the service to include only already existing customers. A new service, Goldmoney Holding, was launched...and it is terrible. So far, they have kept their promise to let Goldmoney Personal customers to continue using the platform, but inevitably, at some point they will surely for a migration to the Goldmoney Holding platform, and I will promptly take my business elsewhere, assuming the problems with Goldmoney Holding have not been eliminated by that point.

The last 20% of my gold allocation is held in my Tax Free Savings Account in the CGL.C.TO ETF (Canadian GLD, essentially), for tax-free balancing purposes.
Have you considered globalgold? They have good customer service and the people I've dealt with all have excellent English (some native English-speakers) although they are a Swiss company.
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by sophie » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:07 am

I buy physical from Colorado Gold - easy and low cost, but you have to buy at least 7 coins per order.

I had looked at Goldmoney and Global Gold, but ended up going with Perth Mint for international storage. 100 year history and super conservative management won the day for me, as Goldmoney hasn't been around that long. On the other hand, you definitely have to file FBAR with a Perth Mint account over the $10K limit. I'll be hitting that later this year.
Post Reply