Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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bedraggled
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by bedraggled » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:03 am

Can anyone recommend a gold coin dealer in New York City.  Manhattan preferable>  What % over spot are the charges, if anyone knows.

Thanks.
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sophie
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by sophie » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:46 am

You won't find anything useful in Manhattan.  There's a coin dealer in Paterson, NJ and I know someone who has bought gold bars there several times, but the neighborhood is a little funky and it's hard to get to by public transportation.

Online purchases work well.  If you don't have a front desk or a VERY trusted neighbor to take the package for you, the post office will hold it for you to pick up - it's registered so they can't just leave it in your vestibule.  Alternatively, consider getting a PO box for packages.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Reub » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:44 am

I know someone who used Coin Galleries Of Oyster Bay. They've been around for 40 years and have multiple branches on Long Island. I have personally never used them but they might be worth a call.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by bedraggled » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:35 pm

Sophie and Reub,

thanks for your responses.

And Rueb, does the place in Oyster Bay charge sales tax.

Thanks again
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Reub » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:12 pm

I'm not really sure if they charge sales tax. Here is the link to their site:

http://www.coingalleriesofoysterbay.com/bullion.php

And their phone number is (800) 200-0129
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sixdollars
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by sixdollars » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:51 pm

Just curious, who here has geographic diversification for their physical gold (i.e. stored or allocated in another stable country)?  I'm thinking about buying and storing gold at the Perth Mint soon, but wonder who all has taken the jump..
Last edited by sixdollars on Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Libertarian666
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:30 am

ochotona wrote: The head office of APMEX is within driving distance of me which is a plus, because I would like to do the first transaction face-to-face. Their actual storage location is a secret, however... it is not in OKC. Their storage fees for segregated storage seem quite low at 0.55%. Does anyone know of a reason not to use them?
While I don't have any specific knowledge of their business, I wouldn't use any gold dealer for storage. There have been some horror stories of people's life savings vanishing in such situations.

Of course that could happen no matter where your storage is, but I consider precious metals dealers more hazardous than single-purpose storage companies, as the former can have business issues that the latter won't have, e.g., inadequate hedging against price fluctuations.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by stuper1 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:50 am

Libertarian666 wrote: While I don't have any specific knowledge of their business, I wouldn't use any gold dealer for storage. There have been some horror stories of people's life savings vanishing in such situations.

Of course that could happen no matter where your storage is, but I consider precious metals dealers more hazardous than single-purpose storage companies, as the former can have business issues that the latter won't have, e.g., inadequate hedging against price fluctuations.
Would that advice apply to something like the Perth Mint?
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ochotona » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:58 am

Somehow, nowadays I don't consider any country that you could drive to from Russia to be "stable". Yes, you can a tank from Russia to Switzerland. I think I'd consider storing gold in Canada, but not sure if needed. I live in the USA. For my purposes I think USA segregated storage and some ETFs would be good enough.
sixdollars wrote: Just curious, who here has geographic diversification for their physical gold (i.e. stored or allocated in another stable country)?  I'm thinking about buying and storing gold at the Perth Mint soon, but wonder who all has taken the jump..
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:30 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote: While I don't have any specific knowledge of their business, I wouldn't use any gold dealer for storage. There have been some horror stories of people's life savings vanishing in such situations.

Of course that could happen no matter where your storage is, but I consider precious metals dealers more hazardous than single-purpose storage companies, as the former can have business issues that the latter won't have, e.g., inadequate hedging against price fluctuations.
Would that advice apply to something like the Perth Mint?
Yes, although again I have no specific information about their business, and they may be perfectly fine. I just don't like a business model where what you are storing is the same type of asset as the raw material of the storage facility's main business.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:40 pm

sophie wrote: You won't find anything useful in Manhattan.
Why is that? Markup?
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Reub » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:27 pm

I know a guy who knows a guy who buys a lot of gold in Manhattan. I'll see if I can find out who.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Reub » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:19 pm

bedraggled wrote: Can anyone recommend a gold coin dealer in New York City.  Manhattan preferable>  What % over spot are the charges, if anyone knows.

Thanks.
The place in Manhattan that a friend of a friend uses is Manfra, Tordella, and Brookes.

http://www.mtbcoins.com/code/headquarters.html

212-981-4550

They're in Midtown Manhattan.

I know that this person has purchased a lot of gold from them but I don't know much about them except they're in business for 57 years.

Here's an old article about them:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bullio ... 2010-07-23

"SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Apart from a New York City phone book listing, gold dealer Manfra, Tordella & Brookes, Inc. does no advertising. Lights are on all day because the shop sits in a basement.

Yet MTB, as the firm is known, has never been busier. Every day, people find their way to the Manhattan store with one thing in mind: getting their hands on gold bullion coins, as soon as possible and as much as possible, before the financial Armageddon they fear renders the dollars in their pockets worthless."

"MTB is one of only eight authorized firms in the U.S. able to purchase U.S. Mint bullion coins directly and sell them to coin shops nationwide and abroad. The U.S. Mint does not sell bullion coins to the public, as it does with commemorative and other coins.

In addition to the new swarm of retail customers, MTB saw heightened interest from European coin retailers. "They couldn't find enough coins in Europe, and they were buying from us."

After checking their website, they seem legit and first class, even offering segregated storage services and insurance with direct buying access to the US Mint for bullion coins.

Please let me know how it works out.
Last edited by Reub on Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:52 am

Reub wrote:
bedraggled wrote: Can anyone recommend a gold coin dealer in New York City.  Manhattan preferable>  What % over spot are the charges, if anyone knows.

Thanks.
The place in Manhattan that a friend of a friend uses is Manfra, Tordella, and Brookes.

http://www.mtbcoins.com/code/headquarters.html

212-981-4550

They're in Midtown Manhattan.

I know that this person has purchased a lot of gold from them but I don't know much about them except they're in business for 57 years.
I have dealt with them in the past over the phone and through the mail, quite satisfactorily. But it has been probably 10 years since my last transaction with them, so I can't give you any current information.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by barrett » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:08 am

Just called Manfra, Tordella, and Brookes and the current process when buying from them is quite complicated. To get into the building you need to sign in and get fingerprinted (anyone put off yet??). Then they issue you a key card which gets you into their office upstairs.

They charge 3 & 3/4% over spot for Eagles plus $50 or 1% whichever is higher. With a spot price of $1223 I was quoted $6407.25 for five coins which works out to 4.8%.

The guy I spoke with said, "It's easier to get into the Pentagon than it is to get into our building right now."

Not good. Next suggestion?
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by MachineGhost » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:33 am

barrett wrote: Not good. Next suggestion?
Not sure what the issue is.  Use an Internet dealer.  There's several reputable ones.
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Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by barrett » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:10 am

MachineGhost wrote: Not sure what the issue is.  Use an Internet dealer.  There's several reputable ones.
I can't speak for anyone else but I prefer to buy gold in person, if possible.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Reub » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:38 pm

There are many buildings in Manhattan that require photo and fingerprinting. I wouldn't let that part deter me. I haven't purchased physical gold in a while so is 4.8% over spot too much?
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by barrett » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:02 pm

Reub wrote: There are many buildings in Manhattan that require photo and fingerprinting. I wouldn't let that part deter me. I haven't purchased physical gold in a while so is 4.8% over spot too much?
Yes, you are correct about that, Reub. Many buildings do require it. That 4.8% was based on buying five Eagles. Because of the way they figure their price (see my last post), if you bought one coin it would be at about 7.8% over spot. The lowest you could possibly pay with MTB for a multiple-coin purchase is 4.75%.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Reub » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:44 pm

Isn't 5% about what it would cost from low cost internet dealers?
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by MachineGhost » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:29 pm

Reub wrote: Isn't 5% about what it would cost from low cost internet dealers?
2.95% at APMEX buyback price, or 4.65% above spot bid, using cash/bank wire.  7% at buyback or 9.2% above spot bid using CC/Paypal.  You need to be careful because sometimes certain categories have historically low premiums above spot that are a better deal, whether that be foreign bullion or pre-1933.  Don't buy blindly; search for value.  This is helpful: http://www.goldprice.org/gold-prices/
Last edited by MachineGhost on Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Mike59 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:58 pm

I suppose we're lucky north of the border, there are no shortage of places to buy physical:

1. Major banks: scotia, TD in particular allow you to buy it from the customer service desk and have it delivered to the branch

Some reliable online options:
2. www.bordergold.com
3. www.silvergoldbull.com
"Thanks, give me the gold" - Kyle Bass
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ochotona » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:33 pm

Mike is SilverGoldBull a reliable firm for physical storage in Canada for U.S. Citizens?

Mike59 wrote: I suppose we're lucky north of the border, there are no shortage of places to buy physical:

1. Major banks: scotia, TD in particular allow you to buy it from the customer service desk and have it delivered to the branch

Some reliable online options:
2. www.bordergold.com
3. www.silvergoldbull.com
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Mike59 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:50 pm

ochotona wrote: Mike is SilverGoldBull a reliable firm for physical storage in Canada for U.S. Citizens?
When it comes to storage, I don't know much about that but there was a link at the bottom of the page that links to here: https://silvergoldbull.com/storage.html so it looks like they do.

quick political rant since you mentioned storage in Canada:
In all honesty as a Canadian I don't trust our greedy (especially provincial) governments as far as I can throw them. Our fiscal conditions are much like the US (perhaps worse off in some areas like Ontario), with an even more secretive central bank. If the country elects Federal Liberals in the next election I'd move your gold outta here, because they believe strongly in equalizing wealth and I've felt it personally in my province. Outlawing gold ownership in an end-game scenario or flat out confiscating it would not surprise me the least bit, they have billions to waste and will continue to stick it to us. They are also in bed with the IRS, your investments are not safe here and information exchange is free flowing. I'm researching gold storage in a very early stage and am looking outside of Canada for some of my allocation for what it's worth. Off the soapbox, big breath... :D
"Thanks, give me the gold" - Kyle Bass
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ochotona » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:00 pm

I was thinking about Alberta, not the eastern liberal provinces. But, it doesn't sound really good about your Federales.
Mike59 wrote:
ochotona wrote: Mike is SilverGoldBull a reliable firm for physical storage in Canada for U.S. Citizens?
quick political rant since you mentioned storage in Canada:
In all honesty as a Canadian I don't trust our greedy (especially provincial) governments as far as I can throw them. Our fiscal conditions are much like the US (perhaps worse off in some areas like Ontario), with an even more secretive central bank. If the country elects Federal Liberals in the next election I'd move your gold outta here,
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