Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

steve
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:06 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by steve » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:40 am

I like to purchase from local dealer where I pay with a personal check and can walk out with gold in hand. Maybe not walk out the same day as purchase but soon after.
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ochotona » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:04 am

Most local dealers won't be competitive. You need to get comfortable with using insured shipping.
steve
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:06 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by steve » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:03 pm

ochotona wrote:Most local dealers won't be competitive. You need to get comfortable with using insured shipping.
In my area I found a local dealer that is competitive, I agree not all are, I once walked out of a place when a dealer would not meet the price he quoted over the phone.
barrett
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by barrett » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:27 pm

Hey all,

Anything recent to add to this thread? Specifically, does anyone here in the Northeast have experience with a gold dealer where they buy and sell in person? I'm in central CT but often travel between Philly and Boston.

Obviously I am looking for a place that does not sell for way over the spot price, and that also buys back at, or very close to, spot. Have NOT been able to find that here in CT where I keep finding places that charge 6.5% over spot.

Otherwise, any recent good or bad experiences with mail-order places like APMEX, Kitco, CNI, etc.?

Thanks!
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Xan » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:35 pm

Ocho, how do you do insured shipping? Last time I looked into shipping insurance (it wasn't for gold, in case anyone cares) it was something like $1.50 for every $100 being shipped. Meaning... The carrier plans on completely losing or destroying one out of every 67 packages.

That means there's got to be a cheaper way, I would think.
barrett
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by barrett » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm

Xan wrote:Ocho, how do you do insured shipping? Last time I looked into shipping insurance (it wasn't for gold, in case anyone cares) it was something like $1.50 for every $100 being shipped. Meaning... The carrier plans on completely losing or destroying one out of every 67 packages.

That means there's got to be a cheaper way, I would think.
I'm not Ocho, but I was just quoted $4 for every $1,000 in purchases from Kitco... so about $52 for ten coins at $1,300 each.

Funnily, I was told that that charge "is nothing". But I don't think that means that they will actually drop the fee!

Does this mean that Kitco only loses one out of 250 packages?
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ochotona » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:54 pm

Texas Precious Metals folds shipping into their metal price. As far as shipping to them is concerned, they are 90 miles away, if I ever need to sell a large batch I'll just drive there. JM Bullion is in Dallas, APMEX in Oklahoma City, and I have US Coins locally in Houston, other redemption options.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:11 pm

barrett wrote:Hey all,

Anything recent to add to this thread? Specifically, does anyone here in the Northeast have experience with a gold dealer where they buy and sell in person? I'm in central CT but often travel between Philly and Boston.

Obviously I am looking for a place that does not sell for way over the spot price, and that also buys back at, or very close to, spot. Have NOT been able to find that here in CT where I keep finding places that charge 6.5% over spot.

Otherwise, any recent good or bad experiences with mail-order places like APMEX, Kitco, CNI, etc.?

Thanks!
Funny, I didn't see this thread moving until after asking ochotona for a follow-up on texmetals.
Boston - can't remember
Philly - I've bought from Sansom Coin Exchange more than once before switching to just using big outfits and the mail. Ask for Malcolm. Really nice and funny guy, but also very serious about business, very professional. I haven't been there in a long time, but I called not too long ago and he was still there.

I have only had good experiences from Apmex. Well, I had trouble selling my bitcoin for gold there and they apologized. "We're still figuring it out, too", they said. The most annoying part was when someone pasted a response to me addressing me in the third person, so I responded to him with a "he" as well. Minor technical point: I was never able to get into my Marc bitcoin wallet anyway! But that's already in the appropriate thread.

The only reason I'm thinking about trying JM Bullion is that, like Apmex, I can order online instead of on the phone and, unlike Apmex, I can have my order shipped via UPS. The post office ignored my paid sig request on a fountain pen, leaving it on my front step, so they can f__ right off as Ricky from Trailer Park Boys would say. Our UPS man is reliable.
RIP Marcello Gandini
User avatar
blue_ruin17
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:16 pm
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by blue_ruin17 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:32 pm

For physical (40% of my gold allocation) I order from silvergoldbull.ca. Free, fast shipping; usually the lowest premiums I can find. Online dealers are pretty much the only way to go, IMO -- brick and mortar dealers just can't compete.

For international storage (40% of my allocation) I use Goldmoney Personal. For Canadians, it is the best service for allocated gold storage in its class. I researched the fine print of their services intensively before investing with them, and was sold on their strong commitment to ensuring that every single gram of gold that a customer owns is absolutely, 100% fully allocated and accounted for. They even created and patented a ledger system specifically created for that purpose (Google: Aurum closed loop private ledger). They have public, detailed contingency plans for bankruptcy which are structured in such a way that keeps customer gold away from creditor or court pockets. Redemption for physical, delivered to your door, isn't a process that is buried in fine print, it is a main feature of the service. Overall, an excellent service, the best way to hold physical gold in an allocated account in an overseas vault, IMO.

HOWEVER... and here comes a huge caveat: Goldmoney Personal recently stopped accepting new accounts and has frozen the service to include only already existing customers. A new service, Goldmoney Holding, was launched...and it is terrible. So far, they have kept their promise to let Goldmoney Personal customers to continue using the platform, but inevitably, at some point they will surely for a migration to the Goldmoney Holding platform, and I will promptly take my business elsewhere, assuming the problems with Goldmoney Holding have not been eliminated by that point.

The last 20% of my gold allocation is held in my Tax Free Savings Account in the CGL.C.TO ETF (Canadian GLD, essentially), for tax-free balancing purposes.
STAT PERPETUS PORTFOLIO DUM VOLVITUR ORBIS

Amazon: Investing Equanimity: The Logic & Wisdom of the Permanent Portfolio
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 pm

blue_ruin17 wrote:For physical (40% of my gold allocation) I order from silvergoldbull.ca. Free, fast shipping; usually the lowest premiums I can find. Online dealers are pretty much the only way to go, IMO -- brick and mortar dealers just can't compete.

For international storage (40% of my allocation) I use Goldmoney Personal. For Canadians, it is the best service for allocated gold storage in its class. I researched the fine print of their services intensively before investing with them, and was sold on their strong commitment to ensuring that every single gram of gold that a customer owns is absolutely, 100% fully allocated and accounted for. They even created and patented a ledger system specifically created for that purpose (Google: Aurum closed loop private ledger). They have public, detailed contingency plans for bankruptcy which are structured in such a way that keeps customer gold away from creditor or court pockets. Redemption for physical, delivered to your door, isn't a process that is buried in fine print, it is a main feature of the service. Overall, an excellent service, the best way to hold physical gold in an allocated account in an overseas vault, IMO.

HOWEVER... and here comes a huge caveat: Goldmoney Personal recently stopped accepting new accounts and has frozen the service to include only already existing customers. A new service, Goldmoney Holding, was launched...and it is terrible. So far, they have kept their promise to let Goldmoney Personal customers to continue using the platform, but inevitably, at some point they will surely for a migration to the Goldmoney Holding platform, and I will promptly take my business elsewhere, assuming the problems with Goldmoney Holding have not been eliminated by that point.

The last 20% of my gold allocation is held in my Tax Free Savings Account in the CGL.C.TO ETF (Canadian GLD, essentially), for tax-free balancing purposes.
Have you considered globalgold? They have good customer service and the people I've dealt with all have excellent English (some native English-speakers) although they are a Swiss company.
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by sophie » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:07 am

I buy physical from Colorado Gold - easy and low cost, but you have to buy at least 7 coins per order.

I had looked at Goldmoney and Global Gold, but ended up going with Perth Mint for international storage. 100 year history and super conservative management won the day for me, as Goldmoney hasn't been around that long. On the other hand, you definitely have to file FBAR with a Perth Mint account over the $10K limit. I'll be hitting that later this year.
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:21 am

sophie wrote:I buy physical from Colorado Gold - easy and low cost, but you have to buy at least 7 coins per order.

I had looked at Goldmoney and Global Gold, but ended up going with Perth Mint for international storage. 100 year history and super conservative management won the day for me, as Goldmoney hasn't been around that long. On the other hand, you definitely have to file FBAR with a Perth Mint account over the $10K limit. I'll be hitting that later this year.
Congratulations. :-(

As for me, I'm getting rid of my foreign accounts because I can't stand the paperwork, and my wife is even more unlikely to want to do it if something happens to me.
barrett
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by barrett » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:50 pm

Just thought I'd pass this along...

I put in an order with Kitco on Monday and wired $ the same day. Coins were shipped Tuesday and arrived via UPS on Wednesday even though I didn't pay for expedited shipping. Ten coins at $1,312 each. Insurance was $52.48 & the wire fee was $30. Price above spot was $21 per coin. All included my price above spot was just under 2.2%. Pretty damn easy and the coins are all 2016 Eagles in great shape.

This is one of the "special offers" on their site for which - at least this is my understanding - one cannot specify a year on the coins.

I have to say I am pleasantly surprised (and that my wife is a little freaked out that I bought gold online). Open package, fondle, make note to dig a hole in the back yard when the ground thaws.
User avatar
Hal
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Hal » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:45 pm

SGPMX may be an option.

Have used them with no issues

http://www.sgpmx.com

also....
https://www.jsmineset.com/2013/11/23/ji ... nge-sgpmx/
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:03 pm

barrett wrote: All included my price above spot was just under 2.2%.
Fantastic! I'm not buying anything until I pay my taxes. Otherwise, I'd be all over that. Probably won't have enough to buy ten coins, so I'll wait until I do, and another special comes along. Glad to hear there's another vendor that uses UPS and not the post office.
RIP Marcello Gandini
boglerdude
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1313
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:40 am
Contact:

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by boglerdude » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:33 am

https://www.jsmineset.com/2013/11/23/ji ... nge-sgpmx/

"Jim Sinclair said, “I believe the U.S. economy is headed for hyperinflation"
November 22, 2013

hmm
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:01 am

boglerdude wrote:https://www.jsmineset.com/2013/11/23/ji ... nge-sgpmx/

"Jim Sinclair said, “I believe the U.S. economy is headed for hyperinflation"
November 22, 2013

hmm
I don't see any other politically possible outcome. Is any Congress going to stop spending us into oblivion?
boglerdude
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1313
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:40 am
Contact:

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by boglerdude » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:13 am

When oil and food prices piss off enough voters, they'll crank up rates like Volker. Greenspan also, belatedly. Both caused "recessions" a word everyone uses like they should never be allowed to happen
User avatar
Hal
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Hal » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:25 am

boglerdude wrote:When oil and food prices piss off enough voters, they'll crank up rates like Volker. Greenspan also, belatedly. Both caused "recessions" a word everyone uses like they should never be allowed to happen
I can't imagine what interest rates would have to go to in order to remove excess money supply (credit) in the US.
In Australia it peaked at around 18%
boglerdude
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1313
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:40 am
Contact:

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by boglerdude » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:42 am

Taxes can also sop up dollars

Image

I dont know how easy it is for the rich to leave the country if they get too high...
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:02 pm

boglerdude wrote:When oil and food prices piss off enough voters, they'll crank up rates like Volker. Greenspan also, belatedly. Both caused "recessions" a word everyone uses like they should never be allowed to happen
They can't let rates go up to normal. The US budget deficits would head for the moon if they did that, due to the enormous amount of debt they have issued.

They're trapped.
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:11 pm

boglerdude wrote:Taxes can also sop up dollars

Image

I dont know how easy it is for the rich to leave the country if they get too high...
It's not that hard, although still quite annoying. The main issue is getting another citizenship and giving up your US one.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:38 pm

I've seen Puerto Rico, the Channel Islands, and Hong Kong mentioned.

But really, you can be pretty fucking rich and not need to deal with renouncing your citizenship. gocurrycracker has written a lot about how international travellers don't need to worry about taxes.
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:34 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:I've seen Puerto Rico, the Channel Islands, and Hong Kong mentioned.

But really, you can be pretty fucking rich and not need to deal with renouncing your citizenship. gocurrycracker has written a lot about how international travellers don't need to worry about taxes.
That is generally true... unless they are US citizens, in which case they are subject to US tax law no matter where they live.
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:34 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote:
boglerdude wrote:Taxes can also sop up dollars

I dont know how easy it is for the rich to leave the country if they get too high...
It's not that hard, although still quite annoying. The main issue is getting another citizenship and giving up your US one.
The question is: If the rich want to leave, where would they go? If tax rates go that high here, they will certainly be even more confiscatory in Europe, Australia, etc. I don't know about you guys, but I think I would have a tough time moving to Asia or South America, and it may not be much better there anyway.
If I were rich, I would move to Switzerland. No, it's not perfect, but it's way ahead of anywhere else that I know of.
Post Reply