Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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vnatale
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by vnatale » Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:38 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:27 pm

Vinny wrote:[quote=
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by Tortoise » Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:52 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:17 pm
Thanks. I've probably already read it in my notes....but I take it you only buy in person and not through the mail?

I checked at some point last year and I do not believe I have any dealers in my local area. Or, at least that are of any size to make you think that they are going to be around tomorrow so that you can trust them today.

Yes, thus far I've bought all of my gold coins exclusively in person at local dealers. Online dealers usually offer slightly better prices, but I don't mind paying the slight premium since (1) I'm supporting a local small business, (2) I'm building a relationship with a person in my community, and (3) I'll probably hold my gold coins for so many years that the slightly higher premium won't matter much.

A side benefit of buying from a local dealer is that sometimes the personal interactions can be quite interesting. For example, the other day I went to a local dealer I hadn't visited before. When I stepped inside the store, I was greeted by three tiny "guard dogs" just a little bit bigger than Chihuahuas. The guy who helped me was a total doomer/prepper who gave me a well-rehearsed 5-minute spiel about silver and why he's convinced it's going to go up in price by 30x in the not-too-distant future. Mentioned lots of numbers, the IMF, and various foreign countries' central banks. I just kind of smiled, nodded my head, said "That's crazy", then proceeded to buy my gold coins. Maybe he just wanted to sell me silver instead of gold since it has a higher profit margin for him, but who knows.

If I were in your situation, with no reputable-looking local dealers, I'd probably just buy online.
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by vnatale » Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:08 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:52 pm




Yes, thus far I've bought all of my gold coins exclusively in person at local dealers. Online dealers usually offer slightly better prices, but I don't mind paying the slight premium since (1) I'm supporting a local small business, (2) I'm building a relationship with a person in my community, and (3) I'll probably hold my gold coins for so many years that the slightly higher premium won't matter much.

A side benefit of buying from a local dealer is that sometimes the personal interactions can be quite interesting. For example, the other day I went to a local dealer I hadn't visited before. When I stepped inside the store, I was greeted by three tiny "guard dogs" just a little bit bigger than Chihuahuas. The guy who helped me was a total doomer/prepper who gave me a well-rehearsed 5-minute spiel about silver and why he's convinced it's going to go up in price by 30x in the not-too-distant future. Mentioned lots of numbers, the IMF, and various foreign countries' central banks. I just kind of smiled, nodded my head, said "That's crazy", then proceeded to buy my gold coins. Maybe he just wanted to sell me silver instead of gold since it has a higher profit margin for him, but who knows.

If I were in your situation, with no reputable-looking local dealers, I'd probably just buy online.


At this point it's probably 100% that is the way I will go. I'm rereading my notes with reviews that many in the forum have made regarding several online sellers. Seems like I'll have a lot of good choices to make from them. Anyone recommending spreading out the purchases from more than one?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by SomeDude » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:28 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:08 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:52 pm



Yes, thus far I've bought all of my gold coins exclusively in person at local dealers. Online dealers usually offer slightly better prices, but I don't mind paying the slight premium since (1) I'm supporting a local small business, (2) I'm building a relationship with a person in my community, and (3) I'll probably hold my gold coins for so many years that the slightly higher premium won't matter much.

A side benefit of buying from a local dealer is that sometimes the personal interactions can be quite interesting. For example, the other day I went to a local dealer I hadn't visited before. When I stepped inside the store, I was greeted by three tiny "guard dogs" just a little bit bigger than Chihuahuas. The guy who helped me was a total doomer/prepper who gave me a well-rehearsed 5-minute spiel about silver and why he's convinced it's going to go up in price by 30x in the not-too-distant future. Mentioned lots of numbers, the IMF, and various foreign countries' central banks. I just kind of smiled, nodded my head, said "That's crazy", then proceeded to buy my gold coins. Maybe he just wanted to sell me silver instead of gold since it has a higher profit margin for him, but who knows.

If I were in your situation, with no reputable-looking local dealers, I'd probably just buy online.
At this point it's probably 100% that is the way I will go. I'm rereading my notes with reviews that many in the forum have made regarding several online sellers. Seems like I'll have a lot of good choices to make from them. Anyone recommending spreading out the purchases from more than one?
SilverGoldbull
Sdbullion
Jmbullion
Providentmetals
Moneymetals
Monumentmetals
Apmex
Bullionexchange

And many others I've bought from, sometimes as much as $25k. I've never had a problem.

Go to findbullionprices.com to get the best prices. You might be able to spend hours to save a couple dollars....not worth it.

What are you looking for?
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by vnatale » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:38 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:28 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:08 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:52 pm




Yes, thus far I've bought all of my gold coins exclusively in person at local dealers. Online dealers usually offer slightly better prices, but I don't mind paying the slight premium since (1) I'm supporting a local small business, (2) I'm building a relationship with a person in my community, and (3) I'll probably hold my gold coins for so many years that the slightly higher premium won't matter much.

A side benefit of buying from a local dealer is that sometimes the personal interactions can be quite interesting. For example, the other day I went to a local dealer I hadn't visited before. When I stepped inside the store, I was greeted by three tiny "guard dogs" just a little bit bigger than Chihuahuas. The guy who helped me was a total doomer/prepper who gave me a well-rehearsed 5-minute spiel about silver and why he's convinced it's going to go up in price by 30x in the not-too-distant future. Mentioned lots of numbers, the IMF, and various foreign countries' central banks. I just kind of smiled, nodded my head, said "That's crazy", then proceeded to buy my gold coins. Maybe he just wanted to sell me silver instead of gold since it has a higher profit margin for him, but who knows.

If I were in your situation, with no reputable-looking local dealers, I'd probably just buy online.


At this point it's probably 100% that is the way I will go. I'm rereading my notes with reviews that many in the forum have made regarding several online sellers. Seems like I'll have a lot of good choices to make from them. Anyone recommending spreading out the purchases from more than one?

SilverGoldbull
Sdbullion
Jmbullion
Providentmetals
Moneymetals
Monumentmetals
Apmex
Bullionexchange

And many others I've bought from, sometimes as much as $25k. I've never had a problem.

Go to findbullionprices.com to get the best prices. You might be able to spend hours to save a couple dollars....not worth it.

What are you looking for?


A lot of those you name have been recommended prior and are in my notes. But you have some I have not prior seen.

I'm looking to decide who to buy from once I decide how much will be physical and how much will be paper. Opinions here are not united as to which to buy.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by SomeDude » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:35 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:38 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:28 pm
vnatale wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:08 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:52 pm



Yes, thus far I've bought all of my gold coins exclusively in person at local dealers. Online dealers usually offer slightly better prices, but I don't mind paying the slight premium since (1) I'm supporting a local small business, (2) I'm building a relationship with a person in my community, and (3) I'll probably hold my gold coins for so many years that the slightly higher premium won't matter much.

A side benefit of buying from a local dealer is that sometimes the personal interactions can be quite interesting. For example, the other day I went to a local dealer I hadn't visited before. When I stepped inside the store, I was greeted by three tiny "guard dogs" just a little bit bigger than Chihuahuas. The guy who helped me was a total doomer/prepper who gave me a well-rehearsed 5-minute spiel about silver and why he's convinced it's going to go up in price by 30x in the not-too-distant future. Mentioned lots of numbers, the IMF, and various foreign countries' central banks. I just kind of smiled, nodded my head, said "That's crazy", then proceeded to buy my gold coins. Maybe he just wanted to sell me silver instead of gold since it has a higher profit margin for him, but who knows.

If I were in your situation, with no reputable-looking local dealers, I'd probably just buy online.
At this point it's probably 100% that is the way I will go. I'm rereading my notes with reviews that many in the forum have made regarding several online sellers. Seems like I'll have a lot of good choices to make from them. Anyone recommending spreading out the purchases from more than one?
SilverGoldbull
Sdbullion
Jmbullion
Providentmetals
Moneymetals
Monumentmetals
Apmex
Bullionexchange

And many others I've bought from, sometimes as much as $25k. I've never had a problem.

Go to findbullionprices.com to get the best prices. You might be able to spend hours to save a couple dollars....not worth it.

What are you looking for?
A lot of those you name have been recommended prior and are in my notes. But you have some I have not prior seen.

I'm looking to decide who to buy from once I decide how much will be physical and how much will be paper. Opinions here are not united as to which to buy.
Vinny.....i buy nothing but physical and i buy bars coins, platinum, gold, and silver. Are you comfortable sharing more about either the dollar amount you're looking to invest or you're appetite for gold vs silver (or platinum).

I have bought everything from everywhere and will give you an educated opinion with a focus on liquidity and low bid/ask spread. I'll hyperlink to the exact place to purchase with confidence.
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by SomeDude » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:36 am

Physical is 100% the safest way (in my opinion) to hold your metals.

Bonus is you can "lose it" in a tragic boating accident.
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by SomeDude » Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:01 pm

As far as what percentage for paper vs. Physical, my gut is that paper is very risky and the counterparty risk is not worth any convenience.

But.......if someone dissagrees i get it.

In that case, if you strictly adhere to the PP and would rebalance out of gold if it hit 35% of your portfolio...... you're probably good with 2/3 physical and 1/3 paper.

If gold became 35% of your PP and you wanted to bring it down to 25%......you need to sell about 29% of it. Selling the paper is the easiest.

So again, if you accept that you're not really owning gold but instead digital paper that ties to the spot gold price.....and you are a full PPer.....1/3 paper gold for convenience and no more in my estimation.
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by SomeDude » Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:37 pm

For physical coins i think the two most important characteristics are liquidity and bid/ask spread.

A distant third is beauty (do you enjoy it). This is big advantage for physical over a digital gold facsimile or paper gold.

The most liquid gold product in the US is the AGE by far. Every dealer will buy them everywhere at all times because all gold buyers want them. It's that simple, nothing else matches them. A close second is buffalos. You should never have a problem with buffalos. Unless a dealer is flush with them you can expect spot or 1-2% over.

Next for coins is krugs and maple leaves. I've never had a dealer tell me they wouldn't by them, but they would def pass here or bid lower than US mint stuff. I've been quoted anywhere from 2% under spot up to spot on these.

Next on the list is generic bars. I can't imagine a dealer rejecting a generic bar but for sure they will pay less than coins because they also charge less for them. I've never tried to sell one but I'm guessing the best you'll do is 5%-2% under spot.

So.......what's a guy to do?

Buy eagles unless a buffalo is cheaper (rare) or a maple/krug is 2% or more cheaper or a bar is 4-5% cheaper.

Usually a current year or random eagle is the best deal somewhere at all times. Earlier in the year and late last year eagles spike to 10%-15% over spot....silliness. I avoided them and bought bars and foreign coins for 5%-10% less. I never pay more than 5% over.
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by SomeDude » Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:45 pm

Gold eagle for 4.8% over spot....best deal i think: https://bullionexchanges.com/1-oz-ameri ... andom-year

Krug for 3.6% over spot: https://www.bgasc.com/product/1-oz-sout ... rugerrands

Generic bar for 2.5% over: https://www.bgasc.com/product/1-oz-gold ... -gold-bars

Any of these is a fine deal but this is the order i would rank them here in the US.
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by seajay » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:31 pm

Start with gold funds - that have narrower spreads, then when the portfolio has made reasonable gains use some of that 'other peoples money' to convert some of funds over to physical - that have wider spreads. Keep some of both, funds for rebalancing, core physical gold that is rarely if ever traded.
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by seajay » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:25 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:01 pm
As far as what percentage for paper vs. Physical, my gut is that paper is very risky and the counterparty risk is not worth any convenience.
Wouldn't be surprised if push come to shove and even physical backed funds could see problems. State confiscations (option to do so written into US, Australia law), lent and defaulted if/when there was a run on physical, whatever. I suspect there just isn't enough physical to go around all of the supposed physical backed funds.

With the PP you can be quite creative in actual holdings and reduce gold fund counter party risk down to single digits (as per Portfolio 3 in that PV link).
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:18 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:35 am



Vinny.....i buy nothing but physical and i buy bars coins, platinum, gold, and silver. Are you comfortable sharing more about either the dollar amount you're looking to invest or you're appetite for gold vs silver (or platinum).

I have bought everything from everywhere and will give you an educated opinion with a focus on liquidity and low bid/ask spread. I'll hyperlink to the exact place to purchase with confidence.


If I completely follow the Permanent Portfolio with 25% going to gold it would be a significant amount.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by dualstow » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:17 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:18 pm
If I completely follow the Permanent Portfolio with 25% going to gold it would be a significant amount.
I went all physical like SomeDude. If you are thinking about doing that and it’s a significant amount, you’ll want to think about how any heirs can take possession of it.
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Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:16 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:17 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:18 pm

If I completely follow the Permanent Portfolio with 25% going to gold it would be a significant amount.

I went all physical like SomeDude. If you are thinking about doing that and it’s a significant amount, you’ll want to think about how any heirs can take possession of it.


I'm thinking going the bank safety deposit box route may be superior to the keeping it at home route.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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