Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

[craigr]

Also AJPM. They are all business with good prices:

http://www.ajpm.com

[MachineGhost]

Most of the online dealers seem to take their sweet ass time (a week or two or three) in actually sending what you buy.  It sounds like from your conversation that they don't even stock inventory and are selling what they don't even have.  It makes me suspect they are playing the "float" some how to pump up their profits.

MG

10% via cc to lock in the price. The rest by check, which was cashed on 01/04/12. They say that they hold the check for 7 business days, which would take it to 01/13/12. So far 3 calls to them, where they said something along the lines of "Oh, let me check on your order. Yes, the shipment which contains your order has not come in as of yet, it should be in later in the week. We should be sending it out by Thursday. If you haven't been notified of it being shipped out to you by next week then please give us a call back."

[BearBones]

Here are my notes on gold dealers in alphabetic order. Most of these have been recommended on this site, Bogleheads, or elsewhere. I've weeded out those that consistently have higher prices. Would be curious if anyone has a reason why any of these companies should not be on list or why one company should be favored over the others (i.e., not just "I've had good experience with X").

AJPM
http://www.ajpm.com/
503-277-4653
BBB A
Shipping free for > 10 oz gold
7 d holding on checks

California Numismatic Investments
http://www.golddealer.com/
800-225-7531
BBB A
Free shipping
3 week holding on checks

Colorado Gold
http://www.coloradogold.com/
888-442-0994
BBB A+
Shipping 1.5% (included in price, click button)
5 d holding on checks

Gainesville Coins
http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/
813-482-9300
BBB A+
Bank wires only
Shipping dependent on weight

Goldmart
http://www.goldmart.com/
800-470-0170
BBB A-
Free shipping >15k
7 d holding on checks

Tulving
http://tulving.com/
800-995-1708
BBB A+
Min order gold 20oz

[FarmerD]

BearBones,
Good list.  May want to add Texas Precious Metals and Provident to your list.  

 

[vnatale]

Here are my notes on gold dealers in alphabetic order. Most of these have been recommended on this site, Bogleheads, or elsewhere. I've weeded out those that consistently have higher prices. Would be curious if anyone has a reason why any of these companies should not be on list or why one company should be favored over the others (i.e., not just "I've had good experience with X").

AJPM
http://www.ajpm.com/
503-277-4653
BBB A
Shipping free for > 10 oz gold
7 d holding on checks

California Numismatic Investments
http://www.golddealer.com/
800-225-7531
BBB A
Free shipping
3 week holding on checks

Colorado Gold
http://www.coloradogold.com/
888-442-0994
BBB A+
Shipping 1.5% (included in price, click button)
5 d holding on checks

Gainesville Coins
http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/
813-482-9300
BBB A+
Bank wires only
Shipping dependent on weight

Goldmart
http://www.goldmart.com/
800-470-0170
BBB A-
Free shipping >15k
7 d holding on checks

Tulving
http://tulving.com/
800-995-1708
BBB A+
Min order gold 20oz

Now 8 years later would you be adding or subtracting any from this list?

Vinny

[ppnewbie]

Just throwing my 2 cents. I keep it simple - 1 ounce buffaloe or eagle proofs - 60 to 75 over spot from my local shop. It was scary at first but I’ve made a new good friends in the process.

[dualstow]

...

would you be adding or subtracting any from this list?

See here
↳ https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdnc/pr/fe ... uding-over

Additionally, before this even happened, I remember emailing the guy and he answered rudely that I would have to use the phone- not to order, which would be understandable, but even to contact him. Made me wonder why he had posted an email address. So, I didn't use him.

[dualstow]

Just throwing my 2 cents. I keep it simple - 1 ounce buffaloe or eagle proofs - 60 to 75 over spot from my local shop. It was scary at first but I’ve made a new good friends in the process.

I don't think proof coins are bullion exactly, are they?
https://westhillscapital.com/2018/06/25 ... no-debate/

[ppnewbie]

great article. My local shop sells them to me only $60 over spot. And....they are so pretty Actually I really just want the gold but figure it will be easier to sell if it is a proof and has a certificate of authenticity included. So basically for the same price I’m getting a proof.

But if there was a premium - bullion would be fine.

[dualstow]

Hmm, I've never tried to sell proof coins but if you're just starting out and you plan to buy a bunch of coins, even if it's over time, you might want to explore further.

[vnatale]

At two of my local coin dealers, Gold Eagles are currently selling at 4-5% above spot, and Krugs are selling at 3-4% above spot. The buy/sell spread for both is around 3-4%. From what I've seen, those are all pretty typical.

In early 2009 I was tracking the weekly premiums and buy/sell spreads on gold coins at my favorite local dealer (a reputable one). In April of that year, Gold Eagle premiums climbed as high as 9.2% over spot, but that was pretty unusual, and it dropped back down below 5% a couple of months later. For Krugs the premium peak was 6.4% then dropped below 3% a couple of months later. Interestingly, the buy/sell spreads for both Eagles and Krugs at that dealer stayed close to each other the entire time, varying within a fairly tight range of 3-4.5%.

So premiums over spot can vary quite a bit as supply and demand fluctuate, but what you'll notice is that the buy/sell spreads tend to remain fairly constant--often fixed--in dollar terms (e.g., $50 per coin) since the dealer just wants to focus on moving the merchandise and making a predictable profit on each transaction. When I'm buying, I just buy the lowest-premium coin the dealer is offering at the time and make sure the premium is in the same ballpark as at least one or two other reputable dealers.

Have you ever done such a thing since?

[Tortoise]

For premiums, yes, but not for buy/sell spreads since the local dealers I usually use list only their sell prices on their web sites (not the sell and buy prices).

I've tracked gold eagle and krug premiums since February of this year when they were unusually high, and they've steadily dropped by about 2-3% since then.

I did find another local dealer whose web site lists both buy and sell prices, and it looks like the current spread for gold eagles and krugs is 5.3% and 5.2%, respectively. So their spreads are very close, even though their premiums are a bit different (6.7% for the eagles and 5.3% for the krugs).

I guess that's roughly consistent with what I observed 10 years ago, i.e., when you compare gold eagles and krugs, their buy/sell spreads are roughly the same even if their premiums aren't.

[vnatale]

For premiums, yes, but not for buy/sell spreads since the local dealers I usually use list only their sell prices on their web sites (not the sell and buy prices).

I've tracked gold eagle and krug premiums since February of this year when they were unusually high, and they've steadily dropped by about 2-3% since then.

I did find another local dealer whose web site lists both buy and sell prices, and it looks like the current spread for gold eagles and krugs is 5.3% and 5.2%, respectively. So their spreads are very close, even though their premiums are a bit different (6.7% for the eagles and 5.3% for the krugs).

I guess that's roughly consistent with what I observed 10 years ago, i.e., when you compare gold eagles and krugs, their buy/sell spreads are roughly the same even if their premiums aren't.

Thanks. I've probably already read it in my notes....but I take it you only buy in person and not through the mail?

I checked at some point last year and I do not believe I have any dealers in my local area. Or, at least that are of any size to make you think that they are going to be around tomorrow so that you can trust them today.

[dualstow]

…
I checked at some point last year and I do not believe I have any dealers in my local area. Or, at least that are of any size to make you think that they are going to be around tomorrow so that you can trust them today.

I don’t know how far they are from you, Vinny, but for a while I used Rare Coins of New Hampshire (by mail). They were great, although the employee I dealt with is gone, so I don’t know how they are these days.
Paste this into google maps or google, not bing

Code: Select all

R7RW+J8 Milford, New Hampshire

I’m not even getting all my mail, so I do worry about coin shipments but so far, nothing has been lost.

[vnatale]

[quote=

[Tortoise]

Thanks. I've probably already read it in my notes....but I take it you only buy in person and not through the mail?

I checked at some point last year and I do not believe I have any dealers in my local area. Or, at least that are of any size to make you think that they are going to be around tomorrow so that you can trust them today.

Yes, thus far I've bought all of my gold coins exclusively in person at local dealers. Online dealers usually offer slightly better prices, but I don't mind paying the slight premium since (1) I'm supporting a local small business, (2) I'm building a relationship with a person in my community, and (3) I'll probably hold my gold coins for so many years that the slightly higher premium won't matter much.

A side benefit of buying from a local dealer is that sometimes the personal interactions can be quite interesting. For example, the other day I went to a local dealer I hadn't visited before. When I stepped inside the store, I was greeted by three tiny "guard dogs" just a little bit bigger than Chihuahuas. The guy who helped me was a total doomer/prepper who gave me a well-rehearsed 5-minute spiel about silver and why he's convinced it's going to go up in price by 30x in the not-too-distant future. Mentioned lots of numbers, the IMF, and various foreign countries' central banks. I just kind of smiled, nodded my head, said "That's crazy", then proceeded to buy my gold coins. Maybe he just wanted to sell me silver instead of gold since it has a higher profit margin for him, but who knows.

If I were in your situation, with no reputable-looking local dealers, I'd probably just buy online.

[vnatale]

Yes, thus far I've bought all of my gold coins exclusively in person at local dealers. Online dealers usually offer slightly better prices, but I don't mind paying the slight premium since (1) I'm supporting a local small business, (2) I'm building a relationship with a person in my community, and (3) I'll probably hold my gold coins for so many years that the slightly higher premium won't matter much.

A side benefit of buying from a local dealer is that sometimes the personal interactions can be quite interesting. For example, the other day I went to a local dealer I hadn't visited before. When I stepped inside the store, I was greeted by three tiny "guard dogs" just a little bit bigger than Chihuahuas. The guy who helped me was a total doomer/prepper who gave me a well-rehearsed 5-minute spiel about silver and why he's convinced it's going to go up in price by 30x in the not-too-distant future. Mentioned lots of numbers, the IMF, and various foreign countries' central banks. I just kind of smiled, nodded my head, said "That's crazy", then proceeded to buy my gold coins. Maybe he just wanted to sell me silver instead of gold since it has a higher profit margin for him, but who knows.

If I were in your situation, with no reputable-looking local dealers, I'd probably just buy online.

At this point it's probably 100% that is the way I will go. I'm rereading my notes with reviews that many in the forum have made regarding several online sellers. Seems like I'll have a lot of good choices to make from them. Anyone recommending spreading out the purchases from more than one?

[SomeDude]

Yes, thus far I've bought all of my gold coins exclusively in person at local dealers. Online dealers usually offer slightly better prices, but I don't mind paying the slight premium since (1) I'm supporting a local small business, (2) I'm building a relationship with a person in my community, and (3) I'll probably hold my gold coins for so many years that the slightly higher premium won't matter much.

A side benefit of buying from a local dealer is that sometimes the personal interactions can be quite interesting. For example, the other day I went to a local dealer I hadn't visited before. When I stepped inside the store, I was greeted by three tiny "guard dogs" just a little bit bigger than Chihuahuas. The guy who helped me was a total doomer/prepper who gave me a well-rehearsed 5-minute spiel about silver and why he's convinced it's going to go up in price by 30x in the not-too-distant future. Mentioned lots of numbers, the IMF, and various foreign countries' central banks. I just kind of smiled, nodded my head, said "That's crazy", then proceeded to buy my gold coins. Maybe he just wanted to sell me silver instead of gold since it has a higher profit margin for him, but who knows.

If I were in your situation, with no reputable-looking local dealers, I'd probably just buy online.

At this point it's probably 100% that is the way I will go. I'm rereading my notes with reviews that many in the forum have made regarding several online sellers. Seems like I'll have a lot of good choices to make from them. Anyone recommending spreading out the purchases from more than one?

SilverGoldbull
Sdbullion
Jmbullion
Providentmetals
Moneymetals
Monumentmetals
Apmex
Bullionexchange

And many others I've bought from, sometimes as much as $25k. I've never had a problem.

Go to findbullionprices.com to get the best prices. You might be able to spend hours to save a couple dollars....not worth it.

What are you looking for?

[vnatale]

Yes, thus far I've bought all of my gold coins exclusively in person at local dealers. Online dealers usually offer slightly better prices, but I don't mind paying the slight premium since (1) I'm supporting a local small business, (2) I'm building a relationship with a person in my community, and (3) I'll probably hold my gold coins for so many years that the slightly higher premium won't matter much.

A side benefit of buying from a local dealer is that sometimes the personal interactions can be quite interesting. For example, the other day I went to a local dealer I hadn't visited before. When I stepped inside the store, I was greeted by three tiny "guard dogs" just a little bit bigger than Chihuahuas. The guy who helped me was a total doomer/prepper who gave me a well-rehearsed 5-minute spiel about silver and why he's convinced it's going to go up in price by 30x in the not-too-distant future. Mentioned lots of numbers, the IMF, and various foreign countries' central banks. I just kind of smiled, nodded my head, said "That's crazy", then proceeded to buy my gold coins. Maybe he just wanted to sell me silver instead of gold since it has a higher profit margin for him, but who knows.

If I were in your situation, with no reputable-looking local dealers, I'd probably just buy online.

At this point it's probably 100% that is the way I will go. I'm rereading my notes with reviews that many in the forum have made regarding several online sellers. Seems like I'll have a lot of good choices to make from them. Anyone recommending spreading out the purchases from more than one?

SilverGoldbull
Sdbullion
Jmbullion
Providentmetals
Moneymetals
Monumentmetals
Apmex
Bullionexchange

And many others I've bought from, sometimes as much as $25k. I've never had a problem.

Go to findbullionprices.com to get the best prices. You might be able to spend hours to save a couple dollars....not worth it.

What are you looking for?

A lot of those you name have been recommended prior and are in my notes. But you have some I have not prior seen.

I'm looking to decide who to buy from once I decide how much will be physical and how much will be paper. Opinions here are not united as to which to buy.

[SomeDude]

Yes, thus far I've bought all of my gold coins exclusively in person at local dealers. Online dealers usually offer slightly better prices, but I don't mind paying the slight premium since (1) I'm supporting a local small business, (2) I'm building a relationship with a person in my community, and (3) I'll probably hold my gold coins for so many years that the slightly higher premium won't matter much.

A side benefit of buying from a local dealer is that sometimes the personal interactions can be quite interesting. For example, the other day I went to a local dealer I hadn't visited before. When I stepped inside the store, I was greeted by three tiny "guard dogs" just a little bit bigger than Chihuahuas. The guy who helped me was a total doomer/prepper who gave me a well-rehearsed 5-minute spiel about silver and why he's convinced it's going to go up in price by 30x in the not-too-distant future. Mentioned lots of numbers, the IMF, and various foreign countries' central banks. I just kind of smiled, nodded my head, said "That's crazy", then proceeded to buy my gold coins. Maybe he just wanted to sell me silver instead of gold since it has a higher profit margin for him, but who knows.

If I were in your situation, with no reputable-looking local dealers, I'd probably just buy online.

At this point it's probably 100% that is the way I will go. I'm rereading my notes with reviews that many in the forum have made regarding several online sellers. Seems like I'll have a lot of good choices to make from them. Anyone recommending spreading out the purchases from more than one?

SilverGoldbull
Sdbullion
Jmbullion
Providentmetals
Moneymetals
Monumentmetals
Apmex
Bullionexchange

And many others I've bought from, sometimes as much as $25k. I've never had a problem.

Go to findbullionprices.com to get the best prices. You might be able to spend hours to save a couple dollars....not worth it.

What are you looking for?

A lot of those you name have been recommended prior and are in my notes. But you have some I have not prior seen.

I'm looking to decide who to buy from once I decide how much will be physical and how much will be paper. Opinions here are not united as to which to buy.

Vinny.....i buy nothing but physical and i buy bars coins, platinum, gold, and silver. Are you comfortable sharing more about either the dollar amount you're looking to invest or you're appetite for gold vs silver (or platinum).

I have bought everything from everywhere and will give you an educated opinion with a focus on liquidity and low bid/ask spread. I'll hyperlink to the exact place to purchase with confidence.

[SomeDude]

Physical is 100% the safest way (in my opinion) to hold your metals.

Bonus is you can "lose it" in a tragic boating accident.

[SomeDude]

As far as what percentage for paper vs. Physical, my gut is that paper is very risky and the counterparty risk is not worth any convenience.

But.......if someone dissagrees i get it.

In that case, if you strictly adhere to the PP and would rebalance out of gold if it hit 35% of your portfolio...... you're probably good with 2/3 physical and 1/3 paper.

If gold became 35% of your PP and you wanted to bring it down to 25%......you need to sell about 29% of it. Selling the paper is the easiest.

So again, if you accept that you're not really owning gold but instead digital paper that ties to the spot gold price.....and you are a full PPer.....1/3 paper gold for convenience and no more in my estimation.

[SomeDude]

For physical coins i think the two most important characteristics are liquidity and bid/ask spread.

A distant third is beauty (do you enjoy it). This is big advantage for physical over a digital gold facsimile or paper gold.

The most liquid gold product in the US is the AGE by far. Every dealer will buy them everywhere at all times because all gold buyers want them. It's that simple, nothing else matches them. A close second is buffalos. You should never have a problem with buffalos. Unless a dealer is flush with them you can expect spot or 1-2% over.

Next for coins is krugs and maple leaves. I've never had a dealer tell me they wouldn't by them, but they would def pass here or bid lower than US mint stuff. I've been quoted anywhere from 2% under spot up to spot on these.

Next on the list is generic bars. I can't imagine a dealer rejecting a generic bar but for sure they will pay less than coins because they also charge less for them. I've never tried to sell one but I'm guessing the best you'll do is 5%-2% under spot.

So.......what's a guy to do?

Buy eagles unless a buffalo is cheaper (rare) or a maple/krug is 2% or more cheaper or a bar is 4-5% cheaper.

Usually a current year or random eagle is the best deal somewhere at all times. Earlier in the year and late last year eagles spike to 10%-15% over spot....silliness. I avoided them and bought bars and foreign coins for 5%-10% less. I never pay more than 5% over.

[SomeDude]

Gold eagle for 4.8% over spot....best deal i think: https://bullionexchanges.com/1-oz-ameri ... andom-year

Krug for 3.6% over spot: https://www.bgasc.com/product/1-oz-sout ... rugerrands

Generic bar for 2.5% over: https://www.bgasc.com/product/1-oz-gold ... -gold-bars

Any of these is a fine deal but this is the order i would rank them here in the US.

[seajay]

Start with gold funds - that have narrower spreads, then when the portfolio has made reasonable gains use some of that 'other peoples money' to convert some of funds over to physical - that have wider spreads. Keep some of both, funds for rebalancing, core physical gold that is rarely if ever traded.