Hold onto yer gold

[doodle]

Jessusss.

Https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/01/bets-ro ... avery.html

[Kriegsspiel]

LOL

[Libertarian666]

From the CNBC article:
"The wealth divide and police brutality against blacks are at the heart of protests that have erupted across the nation following last week’s killing of George Floyd during an arrest in Minneapolis."

No they aren't.
1. While there are some actual protests, most of the activity now consists of riots, not protests. Protests are where you walk around with signs and possibly chant slogans. Riots are where you commit physical attacks on people and property.
2. What is at the heart of the riots is the desire to overthrow civilization.

I'm sure the rest of the article is just as accurate but life is not long enough for me to keep reading after that.

[mathjak107]

you better have the guns and bullets to hold on to that gold .

[sophie]

Spot on, tech.

I was also wondering why they are still being called "protests". "Riots" is what we used to call breaking into stores and setting cars on fire, back in the days before the ugly identity politics we are saddled with now.

I also kinda just don't get the reasons for the protests. A Bad Thing (as in a crime) was committed in Minneapolis, and there was an immediate response in the form of firing the officer involved and then charging him with murder. What's to protest about that?

I'd be a lot more interested if the same bunch of people were also willing to protest, say, the murder of the white female Barnard College student by a group of 3 knife wielding black male teenagers. At least they were eventually arrested although it took 2 months before anything constructive happened. Not exactly the lightning quick response in Minneapolis.

[dualstow]

..
I also kinda just don't get the reasons for the protests. A Bad Thing (as in a crime) was committed in Minneapolis, and there was an immediate response in the form of firing the officer involved and then charging him with murder. What's to protest about that?
...

This is almost certainly an unpopular opinion on this forum, but I think I kind of get it, or some of it.
Just to be clear- I in no way support the riots. I support the police, and I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be a policeman these days. You either get injured being lenient or you get sued defending yourself, or maybe both.

I’m an outsider, but I believe the brutality is still happening. More than just the brutality, but a general treatment of blacks that is very different from the way non-blacks are treated. I think most cops are good. They rarely make the news. I think a significant number of people are genuinely enraged, and not just out for a free pair of Vans sneakers.

The looters who take advantage of the protests? They’re always going to be a part of things, aren’t they. They’re garbage.

The white girl from Catskill who threw a petrol bomb into a police cruiser with four officers inside? That, I can’t figure out. And there are so many of her out there this summer. I can’t figure that out either.

Nothing seems to happen after a peaceful protest. We just go back to doing what we were doing. However, I don’t know that we made that much progress after Rodney King and the L.A. riots either. So all this destruction might be for close to nothing. A little progress.

[Xan]

The actual numbers (as opposed to feelings) seem to indicate that there is not an epidemic of blacks being beaten or killed by police, and that the odds of a black man being killed by police (even when done justifiably!) are about the same as being struck by lightning.

0.6% of black men have police force used against them in a given year. 0.2% of white men do. Black men are 3x more likely than white men to commit violent crime, so the numbers are right on the level.

https://archives.frontpagemag.com/fpm/t ... rk-tapson/

[dualstow]

The actual numbers (as opposed to feelings) seem to indicate that there is not an epidemic of blacks being beaten or killed by police, and that the odds of a black man being killed by police (even when done justifiably!) are about the same as being struck by lightning.

0.6% of black men have police force used against them in a given year. 0.2% of white men do. Black men are 3x more likely than white men to commit violent crime, so the numbers are right on the level.

https://archives.frontpagemag.com/fpm/t ... rk-tapson/

Ok, but this is kind of like matching up the corona fatalities with the flu fatalities. It doesn’t even come close to telling the whole story.
What are the odds that you’re going to be hassled by the police as you go to college classes wearing a backpack?
What are the odds that you’re going to be shot in your own apartment by a cop who thinks you’re in her apartment?
What are the odds that if you call the police to report something and someone else, you will be the one who is shot, through your window?

You can’t tell me that the odds are the same for all people, regardless of race.

As far as the stats go on blacks committing more crimes, yes, it’s certainly true. And black on black crime, and the utter lack of protests against black on black crime...yes, it’s all true.

[Xan]

What are the odds that you’re going to be shot in your own apartment by a cop who thinks you’re in her apartment?

Well that happened once ever, so... approximately zero?

What are the odds that if you call the police to report something and someone else, you will be the one who is shot, through your window?

How many times has that happened?

You can’t tell me that the odds are the same for all people, regardless of race.

I would posit that the odds are 3x higher for blacks, commensurate with the 3x higher likelihood of being a violent criminal. Not that that makes it okay.

[dualstow]

One each that I know of,of the first two I that you quoted. Add all of these up — things like these — and you’ll find a lot of weird shit is happening to one group that doesn’t really happen to the other, even when it’s perpetrated by cops who are themselves black.

[Libertarian666]

Spot on, tech.

I was also wondering why they are still being called "protests". "Riots" is what we used to call breaking into stores and setting cars on fire, back in the days before the ugly identity politics we are saddled with now.

I can tell you exactly why they are being called protests: "Orange Man Bad".
Styx has a good video about this very topic: https://www.bitchute.com/video/__CLnVxIeLU/.

I also kinda just don't get the reasons for the protests. A Bad Thing (as in a crime) was committed in Minneapolis, and there was an immediate response in the form of firing the officer involved and then charging him with murder. What's to protest about that?

The reasons for the actual protests are apparently that people are convinced that there is an epidemic of police brutality. I don't see that as actually happening but at least it is a reason that would make sense if it were true.

The reasons for the riots is that there are quite a few people who enjoy rioting and will do it if they know that nothing will happen to them. Which is the case in almost every Democrat-run city, unfortunately.

I'd be a lot more interested if the same bunch of people were also willing to protest, say, the murder of the white female Barnard College student by a group of 3 knife wielding black male teenagers. At least they were eventually arrested although it took 2 months before anything constructive happened. Not exactly the lightning quick response in Minneapolis.

Absolutely not. That would be racist! (Note: sarcasm)

[Xan]

One each that I know of,of the first two I that you quoted. Add all of these up — things like these — and you’ll find a lot of weird shit is happening to one group that doesn’t really happen to the other, even when it’s perpetrated by cops who are themselves black.

That last bit is an interesting one, isn't it? I think it, combined with the actual numbers, tells us that we are not dealing with police forces that have been captured by white supremacists for the purpose of suppressing the black man. That's the way the rioters are acting, and it's because they believe it to be the case. That part is the fault of the media.

What we seem to have instead (at least at a systemic level) are officers acting rationally based on the information at hand. For better or worse (largely worse) the race of a person is a very obvious thing, and is sometimes all they know going into a situation.

Certainly part of the solution is to purge the police of the bad apples. I don't think anybody disagrees there.

But other than for blacks to stop committing violent crimes at such a hugely disproportionate rate, I'm not sure what the answer is.

[dualstow]

One each that I know of,of the first two I that you quoted. Add all of these up — things like these — and you’ll find a lot of weird shit is happening to one group that doesn’t really happen to the other, even when it’s perpetrated by cops who are themselves black.

That last bit is an interesting one, isn't it? I think it, combined with the actual numbers, tells us that we are not dealing with police forces that have been captured by white supremacists for the purpose of suppressing the black man. That's the way the rioters are acting, and it's because they believe it to be the case. That part is the fault of the media.

Certainly, the white supremacist element in the police narrative is overblown. In the military, too. (Btw, i once asked kriegs if he had encountered any solicitation of that and I believe he said none).

However, you’re overlooking another possibility: that black cops often treat black suspects like shit, and far worse than they treat white suspects. It happens all the time.
ADDED LATER: like Freddie Gray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray

What we seem to have instead (at least at a systemic level) are officers acting rationally based on the information at hand.

Often the case.

[Libertarian666]

One each that I know of,of the first two I that you quoted. Add all of these up — things like these — and you’ll find a lot of weird shit is happening to one group that doesn’t really happen to the other, even when it’s perpetrated by cops who are themselves black.

That last bit is an interesting one, isn't it? I think it, combined with the actual numbers, tells us that we are not dealing with police forces that have been captured by white supremacists for the purpose of suppressing the black man. That's the way the rioters are acting, and it's because they believe it to be the case. That part is the fault of the media.

What we seem to have instead (at least at a systemic level) are officers acting rationally based on the information at hand. For better or worse (largely worse) the race of a person is a very obvious thing, and is sometimes all they know going into a situation.

Certainly part of the solution is to purge the police of the bad apples. I don't think anybody disagrees there.

But other than for blacks to stop committing violent crimes at such a hugely disproportionate rate, I'm not sure what the answer is.

I have a few suggestions.

1. End the "War on Poverty". Poverty won, and in the process the black family was destroyed.
2. End the "War on Drugs". Drugs won, and that war destroyed what was left of black society in the big cities.
3. End Democrat rule of the big cities. They are and have been in charge of virtually all the crime-ridden big cities in the US.
4. Hold the media accountable for their lies and distortions. There is no Constitutional basis for exempting libel and slander of "public figures". They should have the same rights as anyone else to sue for defamation.

These measures wouldn't fix the problem immediately, but they would start us on the right path.

[dualstow]

Sounds good to me.

[sophie]

What are the odds that you’re going to be shot in your own apartment by a cop who thinks you’re in her apartment?

You can’t tell me that the odds are the same for all people, regardless of race.

Well, if the above happened once, the natural question is whether something like that might have happened to a white person and just not been reported.

In fact here's a case for you: my former postdoc who is as white as they come (a Mormon, in fact) chose an apartment in an ethnic, crime-ridden neighborhood. The rest of us pleaded with him to move, but he liked the low rent. One day at 6am, his door was broken down with no warning, cops swarmed into his apartment, and he was handcuffed and taken to the local precinct. It was of course a case of mistaken identity, due to getting the apartment number wrong, and they were looking for someone with an obviously Hispanic name. The misidentity must have been immediately obvious to the police but that didn't matter. Luckily, he was released before anything official happened.

He moved immediately afterwards.

I agree with the posters who have pointed out the obvious solution. It's kind of hilarious how news articles on the topic treat black crime as an unchangeable fact of nature, as if there is a gene for criminal behavior that is uniquely present in the African race. To me, that's far more racist than arresting black men in proportion to the crimes they commit. Fixing the problem would require a major re-education effort focused on getting black parents and churches to teach kids that crime is wrong, imposing strict discipline in schools, and stopping all forms of welfare except medical disability - in order to make it clear that work is not optional, and the world doesn't owe you a living.

Absent this, the fact that a third of black men are incarcerated at some point in their lifetime, compared to a tenth of men in the general population, is not going to change. Unless of course you favor stopping enforcement of laws against violent crime, as some news articles I've been reading have (if you read between the lines) proposed.

[dualstow]

Your story reminded me of the tragic story which was either the wrong address or the "right" address of a victim. White homeowner. Either his house was chosen as a place to leave drugs for someone else to pick up, or the police thought that was the case. Either way, homeowner had no idea. Police showed up and immediately neutralized several of his large dogs. So sad.

I think he was an assemblyman or some similar low-level government official.

...

I agree with the posters who have pointed out the obvious solution. It's kind of hilarious how news articles on the topic treat black crime as an unchangeable fact of nature, as if there is a gene for criminal behavior that is uniquely present in the African race. To me, that's far more racist than arresting black men in proportion to the crimes they commit. Fixing the problem would require a major re-education effort focused on getting black parents and churches to teach kids that crime is wrong, imposing strict discipline in schools, and stopping all forms of welfare except medical disability - in order to make it clear that work is not optional, and the world doesn't owe you a living.
...

I would call it a not easily changed fact. It's going to take many more generations, of course. I agree with what you wrote above. Looking at the neighborhoods that aren't far from mine, I can't blame people, including the residents there, for believing that things aren't ever going to change.

Sowell's dismissal of the legacy of slavery notwithstanding, isn't it basic common sense and not a merely glib assessment that things are going to be different with people who were brought here on slave ships, and their descendants, vs say Koreans who voluntarily moved into the toughest neighborhoods to start businesses? The descendants of slaves vs people who immigrated from Nigeria or Cameroon. That takes decades, apparently, maybe centuries, to unwind.

[Xan]

Sowell's dismissal of the legacy of slavery notwithstanding, isn't it basic common sense and not a merely glib assessment that things are going to be different with people who were brought here on slave ships, and their descendants, vs say Koreans who voluntarily moved into the toughest neighborhoods to start businesses? The descendants of slaves vs people who immigrated from Nigeria or Cameroon. That takes decades, apparently, maybe centuries, to unwind.

Sowell's point is that it was successfully unwinding and to a large extent had been unwound, when a different set of problems reared their head and made things worse again.

[dualstow]

You mean "the toxic message of victimhood"?

[Xan]

You mean "the toxic message of victimhood"?

That's one, along with the dissolution of the family unit which was made (financially) rational by disastrous welfare policy.

[Libertarian666]

You mean "the toxic message of victimhood"?

That's one, along with the dissolution of the family unit which was made (financially) rational by disastrous welfare policy.

Don't forget the "War on Drugs".

[Libertarian666]

I agree with the posters who have pointed out the obvious solution. It's kind of hilarious how news articles on the topic treat black crime as an unchangeable fact of nature, as if there is a gene for criminal behavior that is uniquely present in the African race. To me, that's far more racist than arresting black men in proportion to the crimes they commit. Fixing the problem would require a major re-education effort focused on getting black parents and churches to teach kids that crime is wrong, imposing strict discipline in schools, and stopping all forms of welfare except medical disability - in order to make it clear that work is not optional, and the world doesn't owe you a living.

Absent this, the fact that a third of black men are incarcerated at some point in their lifetime, compared to a tenth of men in the general population, is not going to change. Unless of course you favor stopping enforcement of laws against violent crime, as some news articles I've been reading have (if you read between the lines) proposed.

...the dissolution of the family unit which was made (financially) rational by disastrous welfare policy.

Larry Elder: Black America Needs Fathers

It's not just Black America that needs fathers and is being deprived of them by insane public policy.
But they have fewer other pillars of support for the family, so the results are even worse for them.

[Kriegsspiel]

I think it would be wildly cool if a new-generation-MLK got inner cities to boycott committing crimes in place of riding buses. That would stick it to the man SO HARD. Police presence would evaporate.

[dualstow]

Cross-post. I should have put it here, but in a forum about the permanent portfolio, a thread called “Hold onto yer gold” does not bring reparations to mind. It brings gold to mind.
↳ viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10771&p=198141#p198141

[Libertarian666]

I think it would be wildly cool if a new-generation-MLK got inner cities to boycott committing crimes in place of riding buses. That would stick it to the man SO HARD. Police presence would evaporate.

Good luck with that. I think they've already tried something of that kind with the "Murder-free weekends" in various cities.
For some unknown reason, they didn't work very well.