Gyroscopic Investing

vnatale wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:12 pm

Did you have any systematic way of apportioning? Like 75% of purchases of one and 25% for the other? Or, has it been more haphazard?

Thanks

Vinny

jacksonm2 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:03 pm

I have some of both, but mostly American Eagles.

I figure I should have enough ETF to do my first major rebalance when I hit the rebalance band. I have 75% physical. Beyond that there's no predicting.

From what I have gathered you pay a premium on buying the Eagle but you also get a premium when you sell it. I've not yet acquired enough information to determine if they come out the same in the long run or buying and selling one or the other is superior.

Vinny

jacksonm2 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:08 pm

vnatale wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:12 pm

Did you have any systematic way of apportioning? Like 75% of purchases of one and 25% for the other? Or, has it been more haphazard?

Thanks

Vinny

More haphazard than systematic, to be sure.

Bought mostly Eagles until one day I thought it would be cool to buy some other kinds and Maple Leafs were my choice.

If it were me, I would go with the lowest premium one ounce coin I could find. Better to take the lower premium now than hope for a higher one on resale.

I've looked at the buy / sell prices over a number of years over a number of dealers, and the Eagles are always the round-trip losers. That said, I probably will never buy another coin, and will be buying ETF AAAU in the future, now that there is no longer any commission to buy it.

ochotona wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:30 pm

I've looked at the buy / sell prices over a number of years over a number of dealers, and the Eagles are always the round-trip losers. That said, I probably will never buy another coin, and will be buying ETF AAAU in the future, now that there is no longer any commission to buy it.

LOL. There are plenty of cost benefits of ETFs over physical, but $4.95 commissions was not one that made any difference.

pugchief wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:14 am

ochotona wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:30 pm

I've looked at the buy / sell prices over a number of years over a number of dealers, and the Eagles are always the round-trip losers. That said, I probably will never buy another coin, and will be buying ETF AAAU in the future, now that there is no longer any commission to buy it.

LOL. There are plenty of cost benefits of ETFs over physical, but $4.95 commissions was not one that made any difference.

I am so cheap

Really, Pug? It makes a difference to me. I don’t buy fractional coins because of the markup. Always one ounce. With gold ETFs, I wanted to dollar cost average, but paying $5 each time I buy, and for an instrument that doesn’t pay dividends, just doesn’t make sense to me.

With zero trading fees, I could spend less than the spot price (or more) total, and buy every week.

dualstow wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:47 am

Really, Pug? It makes a difference to me. I don’t buy fractional coins because of the markup. Always one ounce. With gold ETFs, I wanted to dollar cost average, but paying $5 each time I buy, and for an instrument that doesn’t pay dividends, just doesn’t make sense to me.

With zero trading fees, I could spend less than the spot price (or more) total, and buy every week.

DS, you misunderstood my point. When you figure in buy/sell spreads on physical* and markup, plus the cost of storage, insurance, etc, any ETF at .3% a year or less is saving you a ton of money, even with $4.95 commissions. I agree that if you are making many small purchases those $5 dings add up, but consolidating to, say, once per quarter gives you DCA and costs $20/year and just doesn't compare to the costs of physical.

There are some advantages to physical over ETFs, but cost is not one of them.


*(btw Ocho, you talk about MOC orders to avoid the spread of a couple of cent on ETFs while not concerning yourself on the insane spread on coins?)

Yeah, if AAAU existed while I was buying coins, I'd have bought a lot fewer coins. My buying wound down just as AAAU was launching. Can't do anything about that now. No further action until a rebalance band is hit, and I'm using the wide ones. It will be years before I do anything else with gold or gold ETFs.

pugchief wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:42 pm

...
I agree that if you are making many small purchases those $5 dings add up, but consolidating to, say, once per quarter gives you DCA and costs $20/year and just doesn't compare to the costs of physical.

There are some advantages to physical over ETFs, but cost is not one of them.

For sure.

ochotona wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:30 pm

I've looked at the buy / sell prices over a number of years over a number of dealers, and the Eagles are always the round-trip losers. That said, I probably will never buy another coin, and will be buying ETF AAAU in the future, now that there is no longer any commission to buy it.

You have no concerns with AAAU's relative tiny size compared to the much larger EFTs ahead of it?

Vinny

vnatale wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:07 pm

ochotona wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:30 pm

I've looked at the buy / sell prices over a number of years over a number of dealers, and the Eagles are always the round-trip losers. That said, I probably will never buy another coin, and will be buying ETF AAAU in the future, now that there is no longer any commission to buy it.

You have no concerns with AAAU's relative tiny size compared to the much larger EFTs ahead of it?

Vinny

ZERO concerns about size. ETFs that are destined for the woodchipper struggle to grown past $10-$20 million. AAAU has quickly grown to ten times that size.

My problem with American Gold Eagles as compared to Maple Leaves is that it's a lot harder to forge a 99.9999% coin than a 93% coin. So, as counterfeit technology improves, we're likely to see more convincing counterfeit eagles than maple leaves.

I find putting maple leaves in $1 air-tite brand capsules to be sufficient to keep them from getting scratched.

ochotona wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:47 pm

vnatale wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:07 pm

ochotona wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:30 pm

I've looked at the buy / sell prices over a number of years over a number of dealers, and the Eagles are always the round-trip losers. That said, I probably will never buy another coin, and will be buying ETF AAAU in the future, now that there is no longer any commission to buy it.

You have no concerns with AAAU's relative tiny size compared to the much larger EFTs ahead of it?

Vinny

ZERO concerns about size. ETFs that are destined for the woodchipper struggle to grown past $10-$20 million. AAAU has quickly grown to ten times that size.

Are you saying it is in the $100 million to $200 million range? If so that seems super tiny in the financial world.

Vinny

vnatale wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:08 pm

Are you saying it is in the $100 million to $200 million range? If so that seems super tiny in the financial world.

Vinny

It's $220 million, and that's of no concern for buy and hold investors.

tomfoolery wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:49 pm

My problem with American Gold Eagles as compared to Maple Leaves is that it's a lot harder to forge a 99.9999% coin than a 93% coin. So, as counterfeit technology improves, we're likely to see more convincing counterfeit eagles than maple leaves.

I find putting maple leaves in $1 air-tite brand capsules to be sufficient to keep them from getting scratched.

Very good point on the forgeries. New maples are infinitely more difficult if not impossible to forge well. Its probably not economical. The design complexity, radial lines, and privy mark on the new ones make them unparalleled in the world i think for security.

The US mint is trying to catch up and adding security features in 2021.

I have a few maples and many many more eagles of various sizes, proofs etc.

I would still prefer eagles in the US for liquidity. If you buy from a reputable dealer you're fine and a good visual inspection and ping test if you're at an LCS and you're fine there too.

Maples are more beautiful but if you want a real sexy coin i don't think you can do better than a 2020 Britannia.

tomfoolery wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:49 pm

My problem with American Gold Eagles as compared to Maple Leaves is that it's a lot harder to forge a 99.9999% coin than a 93% coin.

I keep reading that as forge, like in a furnace. Forging a sword.
What is the verb for committing a forgery anyway?

dualstow wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:20 am

What is the verb for committing a forgery anyway?

Pretty sure it's forge as in "forge someone's signature".

Yeah, I guess that must be right.

This video contains the Eagle, Buffalo, and Maple Leaf
The only thing to note is that SWP probably has a global perspective vs. what is best for US residents.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1xEx0yoDlWk

ppnewbie wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:26 pm

This video contains the Eagle, Buffalo, and Maple Leaf
The only thing to note is that SWP probably has a global perspective vs. what is best for US residents.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1xEx0yoDlWk

Eagles probably can't be beat but these are all great coins.

Here in Canada the Canadian Maple Leaf bullion coins are not subject to sales tax. Many foreign coins are. As a result, for us, it's a no-brainer to just go with the Maple Leafs.