Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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technovelist
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by technovelist » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:08 pm

boglerdude wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:43 pm
taxation is theft? Throw the disabled into a volcano?
Are you okay? You're not making any sense.
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by technovelist » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:11 pm

l82start wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:31 pm
technovelist wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:52 pm
l82start wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:03 pm
doesn't the new "we fill out all the paperwork and us government regulations" accounts that just opened up to Americans kinda defeat the whole purpose of Swiss accounts and geographic diversification?
Of course it would be better for privacy if they didn't have those rules, but there are still advantages to having some assets outside the US even if the government knows all about them.
the benefit will probably depend on the fine print in the rules, can you get there and retrieve it before the US can freeze it or seize it??
One advantage of having assets outside the US (or whatever country you live in) is that if you have to flee for your life at least you won't be penniless.

There are others. I recommend reading one of Harry's books that discusses this topic.
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by boglerdude » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:27 pm

So youre not encouraging tax evasion. ok, is this service better than Perth Mint. Or is there a place in Canada where you can show up and get your gold. Anybody looked at Vancouver?

https://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-th ... ge-7300012
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by l82start » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:43 am

technovelist wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:11 pm
l82start wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:31 pm
technovelist wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:52 pm


Of course it would be better for privacy if they didn't have those rules, but there are still advantages to having some assets outside the US even if the government knows all about them.
the benefit will probably depend on the fine print in the rules, can you get there and retrieve it before the US can freeze it or seize it??
One advantage of having assets outside the US (or whatever country you live in) is that if you have to flee for your life at least you won't be penniless.

There are others. I recommend reading one of Harry's books that discusses this topic.
i am not questioning the value of geographical diversification, i am questioning the value of a foreign account that is subject to your home country's rules and government interference, is it really diversified if the rules effectively make it a Swiss account in name only?

and what are the rules? an account that wont allow tax evasion is fine, i am just curious what else wont it allow..
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by dualstow » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:35 am

In ‘Best Laid Plans’*, Browne wrote that “even if your government were to prohibit you (and every other resident of your country) from holding gold, you probably could take your time about complying with the edict— if the gold were beyond the easy reach of your government.”

What we *know* has changed is that you can’t just stash your gold in a Swiss numbered account. The criminals and dictators have ruined that option for us.

You can tell from Harry’s language that he wasn’t recommending tax evasion (and obviously technovelist isn’t either) or anything illegal at all. It’s about the government deciding that it suddenly wants your gold. I guess, if you hold enough overseas, you have the option of leaving the country, reclaiming that gold that you paid for and living somewhere else, because in this situation perhaps other things have also changed that make your home country inhospitable.

*This begins on p322 of the hardcover. Before that, he writes about how he would not store gold with a U.S. gold dealer.
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by Kbg » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:51 am

dualstow wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:35 am
In ‘Best Laid Plans’*, Browne wrote that “even if your government were to prohibit you (and every other resident of your country) from holding gold, you probably could take your time about complying with the edict— if the gold were beyond the easy reach of your government.”

What we *know* has changed is that you can’t just stash your gold in a Swiss numbered account. The criminals and dictators have ruined that option for us.

You can tell from Harry’s language that he wasn’t recommending tax evasion (and obviously technovelist isn’t either) or anything illegal at all. It’s about the government deciding that it suddenly wants your gold. I guess, if you hold enough overseas, you have the option of leaving the country, reclaiming that gold that you paid for and living somewhere else, because in this situation perhaps other things have also changed that make your home country inhospitable.

*This begins on p322 of the hardcover. Before that, he writes about how he would not store gold with a U.S. gold dealer.
I must admit to rolling my eyes far back into my head when I read this. If you have enough gold elsewhere to do something like the above then you are decidedly "not one of the little people."

Later folks, off to my chateau. It's grape picking season.
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by dualstow » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:17 am

Kbg wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:51 am
I must admit to rolling my eyes
...
Of course history is replete with people who fled inhospitable countries with the gold they had and before recent times, it was more common to hold gold. It wasn't just for fringe forums, and they weren't all rich.

However, when you talk about diversification of gold (or anything, for that matter), you assume by definition that you already have some to start with. Maybe I shouldn't have included the phrase "if you hold enough overseas." I don't hold enough that I feel I should really get some out of the country. Maybe someday.
Check out ‘Seattle’s Wage Mandate Kills Restaurants’ at WSJ | Opinion
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by technovelist » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:59 am

dualstow wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:35 am
In ‘Best Laid Plans’*, Browne wrote that “even if your government were to prohibit you (and every other resident of your country) from holding gold, you probably could take your time about complying with the edict— if the gold were beyond the easy reach of your government.”

What we *know* has changed is that you can’t just stash your gold in a Swiss numbered account. The criminals and dictators have ruined that option for us.

You can tell from Harry’s language that he wasn’t recommending tax evasion (and obviously technovelist isn’t either) or anything illegal at all. It’s about the government deciding that it suddenly wants your gold. I guess, if you hold enough overseas, you have the option of leaving the country, reclaiming that gold that you paid for and living somewhere else, because in this situation perhaps other things have also changed that make your home country inhospitable.

*This begins on p322 of the hardcover. Before that, he writes about how he would not store gold with a U.S. gold dealer.
Yes, that was the passage I was thinking of (or one just like it). Of course I'm not recommending tax evasion; that is very hazardous.

BTW, it's not just gold that you can hold overseas.

For example, until a few years ago you could buy a Swiss fixed annuity from a Swiss insurance company, which Harry recommended for its unique safety and flexibility.

Unfortunately that is now impossible due to the harassment that the Swiss insurance companies were subjected to by the Obama administration; it wasn't worth their trouble so they just stopped writing policies.

However, it's possible that some of the Swiss insurance companies will start taking applications again someday.

In the meantime, it is still possible to buy a variable annuity or even a private placement life insurance policy, managed by a Swiss firm that keeps the underlying assets in Switzerland. These can be valuable for diversification for people with a LOT of money although they are pretty expensive.
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by Kbg » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:54 pm

I have a good friend in Australia and another in Holland who are expats and I had no idea how invasive the US was when it comes to this type of stuff (collecting taxes). They both said that in their respective countries no one will even deal with US citizens in certain financial areas as the hassle factor is just too large.
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by dualstow » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:02 pm

That's kind of the point of the initial post.
Check out ‘Seattle’s Wage Mandate Kills Restaurants’ at WSJ | Opinion
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by Smith1776 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:55 pm

I know that the canonical PP philosophy is to have some assets outside of your home country, but I just can't bring myself to do it so far.

Mentally I can't help but equate all forms of gold that I can't hold in my hands as being the same. Whether it's an ETF, Perth Mint, Swiss service, etc. I'm cognizant of the fact that they're not, but again, just can't help it.

I like to have as much gold as I can that I can see and touch. The rest in ETFs for rebalancing.
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Re: Swiss banks looking for US clients again

Post by ochotona » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:04 pm

I can see having some physical in storage in Canada (I'm in the USA). That makes sense to me. I can literally drive there, though it's a long way from Houston.
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