Safe Deposit Boxes Aren’t Safe

[Kevin K.]

I’ve often wished I could hold physical gold rather than paper but this article in the New York Times makes me glad I don’t.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/busi ... theft.html

[Xan]

That is absolutely horrifying.

[Kriegsspiel]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine credit union SDBs are safer? They're locally owned and locally accountable, unlike goddamn Wells Fargo.

[Ad Orientem]

There is no absolutely safe form of secure storage. That said, for the average person SDB's are the least risky form of secure storage that isn't likely to cost a lot of money. What happened to that poor man was indeed horrible. But it was also a statistical anomaly. Consider the incidence of lost or stolen property stored in SDBs as opposed to lost or stolen valuables stored at home. This man's story is being reported in the NY Times precisely because it doesn't happen very often. Fatal shark attacks get a lot of attention for the same reason. Home burglaries by contrast, rarely get even a few lines unless the loot is exceptionally valuable.

It's also worth noting that insurance is not hard to get for SDBs and is usually quite reasonably priced. My physical PMs are stored in two SDBs in two different banks in two different states and I check them both several times a year.

Edit: The Times also notes there are no Federal laws requiring banks to compensate customers for lost or stolen property. That has long been a point of irritation with me. However, a friend pointed out that banks probably would cease offering SDBs altogether if such a law were passed. Get insurance. And don't get it through the bank.

[Libertarian666]

Wells Fargo is clearly at fault here.
I hope he gets a big judgement against them.

[Ad Orientem]

Unfortunately that is not likely. But I do agree WF is at fault. They have a truly dreadful history.

[ochotona]

MacroVoices podcast on private vaulting services for gold. I haven't heard it yet, will listen today.

[mathjak107]

Chase bank won’t allow gold bullion or non collectable gold coins or cash in their boxes

[dualstow]

Chase bank won’t allow gold bullion or non collectable gold coins or cash in their boxes

Seems to be the case. See this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9955&p=177307

[ochotona]

I would never use Chase Bank for anything, that's why I go to a bank which is independently owned, out in the country, and they have a sign on their front door saying "concealed carry welcomed!"

[mathjak107]

I like chase a lot ..in fact I have fee trading through youinvest and all kinds of perks from being a chase private client , by just letting them baby sit my etf I pulled away from vanguard

[dualstow]

I visited my box recently. It felt very different than last time, partly because of the rapid turnover at the bank.
I don’t like change in this area of my life. Makes me a bit nervous. But...it’s all still there. That’s what counts.

[Tortoise]

Sorry if this question has already been discussed and I missed it: Even if certain items like gold bullion were to be prohibited from safe deposit boxes at certain banks, how would that be enforced? To my knowledge, banks still give their customers privacy when they access the contents of their boxes.

[stuper1]

Sorry if this question has already been discussed and I missed it: Even if certain items like gold bullion were to be prohibited from safe deposit boxes at certain banks, how would that be enforced? To my knowledge, banks still give their customers privacy when they access the contents of their boxes.

No bank employee has ever observed the items in my box. I've been in there a lot lately to get various documents out.

Maybe the banks issue these decrees just to discourage potential burglars. They are trying to make the bad guys think that the only things in the boxes are old photos and family papers.

[dualstow]

The banks don’t know what’s in the boxes. Mine’s a bit heavy to be holding mere documents, but I have shown up with hard drives, and it could potentially be full of those.

Maybe the banks are covering their asses, protecting themselves from anyone who might claim their gold was stolen. i don’t know. There’s already a waiver, though.

[Tortoise]

Okay, that's what I thought. Seems completely unenforceable unless the bank breaks into your box, which they wouldn't do without a really specific reason. It's not like they'd be systematically breaking into all of the customers' boxes, or randomly breaking into certain boxes just to keep the customers on their toes.

[stuper1]

I'm glad you asked the question, Tortoise, because I've often wondered about that, and I'm still hoping that others may chime especially if they know something different.

Another thing I've always wondered about is government confiscation. If I have a bunch of physical gold at home or in a safe deposit box, and if the government decides to do gold confiscation, which I believe I read has happened before many decades ago, then how does that work? What is the enforcement mechanism? Is it just that if you surrender your gold now, you get market value for it, but if you don't and they find out somehow, then you lose it with no reimbursement? If you knew ahead of time that they would change their minds in 10 years, maybe you wouldn't turn in your gold. But you wouldn't really know that. It could be 50 years, or forever, I guess.

[Kbg]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

Here ya go and this is exactly why I think paper gold is just fine for a PP. if you are seriously paranoid about this stuff, you need ALOT of gold and a permanent resident visa in the country you are storing it in (and you assume they won’t mess with your gold).

[dualstow]

If I have a bunch of physical gold at home or in a safe deposit box, and if the government decides to do gold confiscation, which I believe I read has happened before many decades ago, then how does that work? What is the enforcement mechanism?

I guess you'll find out when it happens. Chances are, it wouldn't be the same as last time around.

[Ad Orientem]

If you are storing prohibited items in your SDB and something happens, the bank is likely to invoke their contract as a further defense against liability in court. But mostly banks are likely just trying to make a show for the Feds that they are doing their bit in the fight against money laundering and organized crime.