Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Discussion of the Cash portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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ppnewbie
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Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Post by ppnewbie » Mon May 20, 2019 3:59 pm

Any opinions on what to choose at Fidelity for a 401k
SHV, BIL, or TBILL ladder (or auto roll as I see people calling on it on the forum) or maybe Fidelity short term treasury fund, or vanguard short term treasury fund (I think Fidelity will let me do this). I have the option to choose any of these.

Also any opinions on cash fund advantages / disadvantages in the form of etf, or direct ownership (via fidelity), or mutual fund.

Thanks!
pmward
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Re: Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Post by pmward » Mon May 20, 2019 4:06 pm

Personally if you're at Fidelity I see no reason not to auto-roll T-Bills direct. Buying and holding auto-roll T-Bills is no more difficult than buying and holding an ETF. Why pay an ER and accept less yield when it doesn't save you any real effort and adds in an extra layer of counter party risk to boot?

That being said, if you want to do an ETF instead SHV or SHY are perfectly fine for anything that is not considered "deep cash". Most of us get a bit more creative with "deep cash" and assume a little extra risk and/or reduced liquidity for a little extra return.
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KevinW
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Re: Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Post by KevinW » Mon May 20, 2019 5:55 pm

ppnewbie wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:59 pm
SHV, BIL, or TBILL ladder (or auto roll as I see people calling on it on the forum) or maybe Fidelity short term treasury fund, or vanguard short term treasury fund (I think Fidelity will let me do this). I have the option to choose any of these.
IMO, all of these options are perfectly fine. I'd pick whichever has the lowest expenses, which is probably the auto-roll ladder.
pmward wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 4:06 pm
Personally if you're at Fidelity I see no reason not to auto-roll T-Bills direct.
...
That being said, if you want to do an ETF instead SHV or SHY are perfectly fine for anything that is not considered "deep cash". Most of us get a bit more creative with "deep cash" and assume a little extra risk and/or reduced liquidity for a little extra return.
+1
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ochotona
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Re: Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Post by ochotona » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:31 am

Here's an alternative to BIL... Invesco Treasury Collateral ETF, symbol CLTL

Distribution Yield (trailing 12 month figure)
BIL 2.14%
CLTL 2.34%

It's 5.6 basis points cheaper than BIL. The performance is better, it's 100% T-Bills and T-Notes, no repo. I'm putting my Schwab Cash into it, instead of the Schwab Money Market choices, which are full of things I don't want to own.
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Re: Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Post by pugchief » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:27 am

ochotona wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:31 am
Here's an alternative to BIL... Invesco Treasury Collateral ETF, symbol CLTL

Distribution Yield (trailing 12 month figure)
BIL 2.14%
CLTL 2.34%

It's 5.6 basis points cheaper than BIL. The performance is better, it's 100% T-Bills and T-Notes, no repo. I'm putting my Schwab Cash into it, instead of the Schwab Money Market choices, which are full of things I don't want to own.
I repeat myself but, I'd be careful with this. Avg daily volume is 22,400 shares which is going to cause large bid/ask spreads. You will likely lose more on the trades than you gain on the better yield.
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ochotona
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Re: Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Post by ochotona » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:45 am

Sure that's why I have adopted "market on close" orders. No spread. But I'll look at the spread during the day next week.
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Re: Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Post by Tyler » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:47 pm

Personally I'm a fan of SCHO. It's the Schwab equivalent of SHY but with less than half the ER. And it now trades free at Fidelity.
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Re: Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Post by mathjak107 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:47 pm

i use bil .....

but remember , when comparing an etf yield with a money market yield they re calculated differently .

money markets are the 7 day average . etf's are the average of the last 30 days ending at the end of the last month
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Re: Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Post by foglifter » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:25 pm

Everything is now commission-free at Fidelity. But why not use FUMBX which at 0.03% is cheaper than any ETF and you don't have to worry about spreads?
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Re: Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)

Post by mathjak107 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:14 pm

fumbx is more like shy ...it has durations over 2 years .. bil is 3 months ... i want short term to be short term in case rate go up so i like bil for the pp at this stage where rates can teeter totter either way ...
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