EU IBKR: Cash yield enhancement program

Discussion of the Cash portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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Vil
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EU IBKR: Cash yield enhancement program

Post by Vil »

For EU investors (guess US ones have better options anyway), Interactive Brokers offers (since couple of months already) the so called "cash yield enhancement program". Compared to other brokers its indeed a viable option. As of the time of writing, those are the USD and EUR rates for any free standing cash you have in your accounts :

IBKR_FSCR.jpg
IBKR_FSCR.jpg (102.97 KiB) Viewed 13535 times

EUR rate was just increased following the last decision (20 Sep) of ECB to increase the rates by 25 bp.
However, worth to mention something:
Accounts with a Net Asset Value (NAV) of USD 100,000 (or equivalent) or more are paid yield at the full rate for which they are eligible. Accounts with NAV of less than USD 100,000 (or equivalent) receive yield at rates proportional to the size of the account. There will be no income paid up to USD 10,000 of cash.
whatchamacallit
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Re: EU IBKR: Cash yield enhancement program

Post by whatchamacallit »

Interesting. It sounds like we are spoiled in the US with how easy it is to buy treasury bills directly or even how easy it is to shop around bank savings accounts.

Is it not so easy to buy euro bills or find good savings accounts with a bank around Europe?
It is hard to put myself in the shoes of being in Europe and how I would feel about the local currency. Is it desired to save in us dollars by a lot of people and if so is it hard to do or penalized to do so?


Off topic a bit but I was surprised recently when I learned that there was no tax when buying or selling gold in Germany and I see Switzerland and Belgium as well now. So at least there is that advantage.
https://www.orobel.biz/information/news ... -countries
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Vil
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Re: EU IBKR: Cash yield enhancement program

Post by Vil »

Well, investing in euro bills is neither that hard, nor that easy, compared to US (based on my understanding) is harder.
Yeah, do not think people here are crazy about USD, though they (as I do) try to find a way to keep their investments in not-extremely-bad shape - given the staggering inflation (in some countries the official is still around 10%) and just the fresh 4-ish % ECB rates. Before the last raise, it was in the 3-ish % area.. As mentioned before here - only doing business that can forward the inflation effects to its clients can save you, however, on the other hand the business climate has declined visibly already ... but it is what it is ;)
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seajay
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Re: EU IBKR: Cash yield enhancement program

Post by seajay »

In the UK its easier to buy short term treasury's (Gilts) than T-Bills. Can be expensive for smaller amounts though, the larger the amount the closer you get to the bond market and the lower the cost.

Our TIPS (Index Linked Gilts) exempt price appreciation taxation, interest is taxed, so generally lower coupon versions are better as much of the returns will be via the inflation increase in the price. Nowhere near as broad as the US's TIPS offerings however https://www.yieldgimp.com/index-linked-gilt-yields

Banks and Building Societies compete with that, so generally you might rate-tart around and move maturing bonds into alternatives as each bond matures https://www.finder.com/uk/savings-accou ... rate-bonds

A rising problem however is state monitoring https://www.companydebt.com/hmrc-tax-pr ... ompliance/ With your regular bank account banks have been put under pressure to report any suspicious activities without alerting the individual, in order to avoid such cases slipping through and the bank potentially losing its licence, the banks are reporting all transactions, which feeds into the Connect system. Despite being early days some already are having their accounts frozen, closed, or transactions blocked - such as when buying physical gold. If you deposit or withdraw even modest amounts nowadays the bank interrogates you for where the money came from or what you're going to spend it on ...etc. If you only have a single bank account and that's frozen, it leaves you in a hole.

Deposit protections are just 85K Pounds, 100K Euro (or Dollars). Another nice element is that with IBKR your protection is the US $500K level (up to $250K cash). FX charges are also way lower with IBKR

Fundamentally the UK is locking down, whilst pushing you away from the Pound/UK, a dangerous game as if alternatives become commonly used/preferred then that could leave the Pound sinking rapidly.

We have ISA's and SIPP's similar to IRA and ROTH.

Inheritance Tax (Estate duty) is way more punitive. Nowhere US $12.5 million exemption, instead its more around $450K, beyond which a 40% tax rate applies.

Gold legal tender coins such as Sovereigns are tax exempt. As is your primary home (excluding Council Tax (state) that is around $3K/year for the average family home I'd guess)

The US apply a 30% withholding tax, that is reduced to 15% under British (and Irish) tax treaties with the US. Don't know about Ireland but in the UK you can offset that against the income tax you'd pay, so if your marginal rate is 20% and you've already paid 15% US withholding tax, you just have a further 5% more to pay.

The EU pretty well stuffed us from holding US ETF's/Mutuals. I had hoped that Brexit would have freed us from that by now, but that's not the case. Our two main parties, Labour (like Democrats) but use red as their color, and Conservatives (like Republicans, but use blue) are both pretty much the same now, very Labour (Democrat) like, the likely election of Labour at the next General Election is inclined to see even worse taxation/wasteful spending and open border migrations, and where there's no real alternative for those that may be more of a Republican type mindset. Many of those that would generally vote Conservative will simply abstain.

Given things as they are and headed, I for one am more tempted to hold US dollars, along with gold, literal hard-cash self insured/secured, bumping up the stock side of things to compensate for the lack of cash deposit interest. For someone who started retirement perhaps at a 4% SWR, but where the ongoing withdrawal rate had declined to being 2%, then a 2% 30 year SWR from thirds each hard dollars cash/physical gold/stocks, historically since the late 1800's has been inclined to end 30 years with the inflation adjusted capital value still intact. Whilst two thirds is literally in-hand (and stocks can be liquidated in T+2 time). i.e. entering a era of more a case of focus upon return of money rather than return on money.

Across the EU each member state (formerly country) have their own rules/policies, the EU however is pushing to have the additional Fed equivalent level above that i.e. another layer of taxation/costs. Where most members have been locked in by debt. I'm personally glad to be on the outside of that as even without that things may be bad enough as they are.
whatchamacallit
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Re: EU IBKR: Cash yield enhancement program

Post by whatchamacallit »

Thank you for the insight seajay. It sounds like a difficult environment to save in.

I found the NS&I website while googling how to buy UK bonds and the rates look to be quite a bit lower than what I would expect. I am not sure what to compare this service with. It seems like it might be similar to our treasury direct with our I bonds and EE bonds.

https://www.nsandi.com/products

Then I found that they use a third party to provide the service of buying and selling Gilts. They make you download a form, fill it out and mail it. Definitely sounds like a hassle.

https://www.computershare.com/uk/gilts/ ... able-forms
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seajay
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Re: EU IBKR: Cash yield enhancement program

Post by seajay »

whatchamacallit wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:52 pm Thank you for the insight seajay. It sounds like a difficult environment to save in.

I found the NS&I website while googling how to buy UK bonds and the rates look to be quite a bit lower than what I would expect. I am not sure what to compare this service with. It seems like it might be similar to our treasury direct with our I bonds and EE bonds.

https://www.nsandi.com/products

Then I found that they use a third party to provide the service of buying and selling Gilts. They make you download a form, fill it out and mail it. Definitely sounds like a hassle.

https://www.computershare.com/uk/gilts/ ... able-forms
I believe so (similar to iBonds). But with the exception that when the push came (back in the financial crisis times), they were withdrawn to new investors. Fire insurance from a arsonist style. A difference being in the event of deflation you don't lose nominal capital value, unlike Index Linked Gilts where under deflation you could end up with less than originally invested.

With all treasury's you're lending to someone who gets to set the rates, can direct inflation, can adjust taxation, or change the rules.
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